Things we refrigerate

[stephenc]

Chinese people don't refrigerate soy sauce.

That's just weird.

[little ms foodie]

this is funny to find today because last night I asked my husband why we refrigerate our mustard when I'd always heard that mustard and honey are the 2 foods that don't spoil.

I'm pulling it out and sticking it in the cupboard!

The japanese soy sauce I buy doesn't say refrigerate and in fact the fish sauce says not to or crystals could appear. I think the US is a little over the top when it comes to refrigeration!

[nacho]

I think the US is a little over the top when it comes to refrigeration!

←

I agree. When I was growing up, my mom used to refrigerate peanut butter (of the Jiffy or Peter Pan variety). It wasn't until I got to college and my roommate looked at me like I was crazy when I put the PB in the fridge did I realize the wisdom of keeping it at room temperature.

Oh, and as I'm sure you can guess, mom keeps her soy sauce in the fridge.

[kumquatmay]

fridge:

eggs / milk / dairy / cheese / butter

soy sauce (the mister's idea)

natural peanut butter

opened mayo

counter/pantry:

the fast-moving homemade breads (cut side down on the cutting board)

olive oil

garlic

tomatoes

avocados

apples

onions

potatoes

flour (after 2 week stay in the freezer to kill bugs)

freezer:

homemade raviolis

the slower-moving breads

mason jar of vodka gimlets

my grandma dates all her groceries with a sharpie, then shoves them in the cupboard. I thought it sounded practical, until I found the opened bottle of ketchup dated 6/02, in 2005. I started keeping all my condiments in the fridge. Except for homemade mayo, which has a brief respite on the counter (acid at room temp supposedly kills bugs), then lives in the fridge.

[moosnsqrl]

I was somewhat surprised by this article in our local food section this week. A "family and consumer science expert" from Kansas State University was the expert cited. They are the go-to resource for all food-related info here, so I'm not questioning the expertise; just surprised to hear anyone in our typically over-anxious, food-borne-illness-phobic society taking this stance.

I think we (in the U.S.) tend to over-refrigerate and go overboard in many cases related to food temperatures with our warnings on menus about uncooked or under-cooked ingredients and the like. There are many foods that are all but ruined by refrigeration (tomatoes being at the top of my list).

That said, this article specifically names several condiments that do not require chilling because of their chemical makeup (salty, acidic). These include bbq sauce, ketchup, soy sauce and worcestershire. All of the products I have in those categories specifically indicate to "refrigerate after opening." I'm sure part of the labeling has to do with liability issues but it surprises me, given the usual alarmist "better safe than sorry" posture of food safety experts, that they would go out of their way to say that it's OK to leave them out. Particularly in light of the fact that most of these could vary widely in their contents (not soy, so much, but the others).

I know we have a lot of scientists and experts of various stripes on the forums, so I'm curious to know what others think.

[hwilson41]

That said, this article specifically names several condiments that do not require chilling because of their chemical makeup (salty, acidic).  These include bbq sauce, ketchup, soy sauce and worcestershire.

←

I checked the Lea & Perrins label and couldn't find any mention of refrigerating after opening. OTOH, both Kikkoman and LKK soy sauces say refrigerate after opening...but we don't :^).

[Pontormo]

Timely topic since I just bowed to peer pressure and bought my first bottle of Sriracha this weekend and put it in the fridge next to the same company's chili garlic paste. Both bottles bear labels indicating how many preservatives the condiments contain, and do not mention refrigeration, but I just wanted to be safe.

There is no such thing as common knowledge, according to Raymond Williams. Anything we assume everyone knows indicates our cultural biases. So, when I looked at the article I was kind of amused by how ignorant the journalist thought the general public is. Come on, who needs to be told this kind of thing? Then, again, look at my first paragraph.

I once gave a rather large jar of a home-made pesto-like sauce to a colleague as a present around the holidays, knowing she didn't cook and loved pasta. I thought writing down all the ingredients: Italian parsley, garlic, pine nuts, Parmigiano Reggiano, etc. was all the information she needed, but I was wrong. She put it in the cupboard and had to throw it out.

[Simon_S]

I was a little alarmed by:

"If you can’t polish off a loaf in two weeks, freeze it."

I'd be instantly suspicious of bread that lasts 2 weeks without going mouldy.

Si

[Kouign Aman]

I'd be instantly suspicious of bread that lasts 2 weeks without going mouldy.

←

Actually, I think it would take you two weeks to become suspicious.

[Smithy]

I never thought one way or the other about the soy sauce. We've always kept it in the fridge, but now I see a way to save some room!

This comment from the Kansas City Star article surprised me:

"Butter — Refrigerate it to avoid rancidity. Salted butter is slightly safer to keep at room temperature, but it can also become rancid if left out more than 24 hours."

I have *never* had butter go rancid that fast, and we generally leave our butter out so it'll stay spreadable at a moment's notice. (I refer to the butter in the dish for daily use. The unopened butter and special stuff stays in the refrigerator until we need it, or - for long-term storage - the freezer.) I think it takes us 2 - 3 weeks to go through a stick of butter.

This one made me laugh:

" •Eat or ditch chilled leftovers within 48 hours."

That would wreck our entire weekly cooking and eating strategy.

[LindsayAnn]

I have heard it is okay to NOT refridgerate cheese...is this true? If so, is it true for all types of cheeses? when is it not okay, or okay, to do so (not place in fridge). Will the cheeses just ripen...or could they get overly mold/bad and make me sick? I love cheese (goats are a favorite variety, I also love cow and sheep milk cheese...many varieties of soft goats/cows milk cheeses can be found in my fridge at the moment, as well as a few hard cheeses as well)....so what is the best way to preserve these while also enhancing flavor? HELP PLEASE!

[srhcb]

I think it takes us 2 - 3 weeks to go through a stick of butter.

←

Now that made me laugh!

SB (must easily avg 1/day )

[moosnsqrl]

SB (must easily avg 1/day  )

←

Cooking with Paula Deen again, SB?

[srhcb]

SB (must easily avg 1/day  )

←

Cooking with Paula Deen again, SB?

←

"I don't eat much butter and cream .... just enough!" - Julia Child

[Smithy]

I have heard it is okay to NOT refridgerate cheese...is this true? If so, is it true for all types of cheeses? when is it not okay, or okay, to do so (not place in fridge). Will the cheeses just ripen...or could they get overly mold/bad and make me sick? I love cheese (goats are a favorite variety, I also love cow and sheep milk cheese...many varieties of soft goats/cows milk cheeses can be found in my fridge at the moment, as well as a few hard cheeses as well)....so what is the best way to preserve these while also enhancing flavor? HELP PLEASE!

←

LindsayAnn, I don't think you'll get sick from moldy cheeses, except sick at the thought of wasting that good food. I think you just won't want (or perhaps be able) to eat them because they taste and/or smell bad. I can tell you, for instance, that the non-stinky cheeses I favor (cheddars, some goat's milk and sheep's milk cheeses, manchego, parmaggiano-reggiano) get a really nasty sharp flavor when they start to mold. I find that refrigerating those cheeses gives them more time before they start to mold. They do taste better at room temperature, so I try to let cheeses warm up before I dive in.

I don't know about all cheeses and how to store them, and there are folks here who know far more than I. You might want to go check out the Cheese glorious cheese thread.

Steven, you must eat enough butter for both of us!

Edited for spelling.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Smithy (log)

[Simon_S]

I'd be instantly suspicious of bread that lasts 2 weeks without going mouldy.

←

Actually, I think it would take you two weeks to become suspicious.

←

Good point!

[ravelda]

With cheese if you speak to an expert, they suggest that as it is a living organism, it should never be put in the fridge or wrapped in cling film, but rather that it should be stored ab 10-14 degrees celsius wrapped in muslin or waxed paper, and any mold should be cut off prior to eating. Chilling cheese reduces its flavour (same with chocolate which also is apparently not meant to be chilled). I believe a recomendation for the best storage is eiter in a cheese cellar if you have one, or otherwise in a wine cellar which apparently is also perfect in terms of temperature or humidity. Most people and restaurants do still refrigerate chees however, as there are strict health and safety rules about the storage of all items that go out to diners - they therefore remove from the fridge at least 1 hour before serving.

[Kerry Beal]

Chocolate - never stored in the fridge. It's only in there in a mold long enough to harden up. Finished chocolates, in a container in the basement which is a little cooler than the rest of the house.

[slo_ted]

Our county health officer's position on cheese is that hard cheeses, such as cheddar, jack, parmesan, etc. do not need refrigeration but that soft cheeses certainly do.

[Hawthorne]

I don't refrigerate butter.  I hate hard, bread ripping butter, and actually like the flavor that sets up in room temp butter after a few days.

Don't refrigerate worcestershire sauce or soy sauce.  Don't refrigerate oils.

Do not refrigerate peanut butter or honey.

←

I don't refrigerate butter either, but we do use it very quickly. I refrigerate PB, because I buy the kind that is ONLY nuts and salt, and it does go rancid once you've opened it.

I refrigerate all washed eggs, which means any I didn't grow myself, but when I had chickens, and found nests that were who knows how old, even eggs that had to be two weeks old when I found them were fine - in fact, the only bad eggs I've ever had were washed eggs.

I don't refrigerate any condiments except mayo based ones.

I don't refrigerate any oils or honey, though I have a hunch that maybe the walnut oil in the pantry has gone west ... I use almonds fast enough to keep them in the kitchen, but will in future freeze all other nuts, as I've lost some off and on.

I do refrigerate flour if the supply gets ahead of me, particularly whole grain flours, but otherwise it sits in the kitchen. I'd freeze whole grain flours if I had the freezer space.

I refrigerate sweet onions, and beets, but not cooking onions or most other 'keeper' veg.

Absolutely do not refrigerate laundry detergent, powdered or liquid.

←

Hey .. do you mean I can recover the space I've been using for those things?

java script:emoticon(':laugh:')

[Hawthorne]

Have you ever read Marcella Hazan on refrigeration?  She thinks USians are nutty for sticking so much in the fridge and "ruining" it.  She actually has recipes where she implores you not to go near the fridge (marinated sardines, and storing gorgonzola come to mind).  In August in Italy I saw big jars of pomarola sitting on counters with a layer of olive oil over the top to keep it "sterile".  They sat there until they got used up.  I confess I can mine, but I like eating it in feb.  When I was in Sweden and Denmark I was surprised to see that eggs weren't refrigerated...they aren't in Mexico either.

←

But eggs keep for a LONG time, IF they aren't wasned. Eggs naturally come with air proofing, and should never be washed. When the shells are (rarely) dirty, the dirt should be gently brushed off, but the eggs should otherwise be left alone.

Washed eggs go stale practically instantaneously, and when we get out of town, I really hope I can go back to having chickens again.

You can't even depend on 'backyard' eggs anymore; people are not only washing the eggs they sell, they are feeding them commercial mash most of the time!

java script:emoticon(':hmmm:')

[Hawthorne]

DO refreigerate onions of the Vidalia and Mauii variety.  These are *fresh* onions and haven't been 'cured'.  They will rot if you leave 'em on the shelf unrefrigerated.

whoa whoa. some onions are treated in some way? and doesn't refrigeration take the "bang" out of onions? not a good thing. i'll just keep buying them and keep em out of the fridge.

←

Sweet onions aren't keepers. If you don't refrigerate them, they will go *very* fast.

I rarely refrigerate any other fruit, because it doesn't enhance the flavour.

Does anyone have a *good* way to keep mushrooms? They dry rather nicely kept in paper bags, but it would be nice to be able to hold them a little longer before they get to that. Sometimes I'm a little too optimistic about how much I'm actually going to need when I buy them java script:emoticon(':rolleyes:')

[Hawthorne]

Tommy, several key crops -- most importantly potatoes and onions -- are cured post-harvest in order to increase their shelf lives.

but only to certain onions from what nick says? i know for a fact that yellow onions last, oh, about 2 years in the closet. vidalias, however, they go quick.

As I understand it, it's not a question of the variety. In other words, I think any onion can be fresh or cured. The fresh ones are sold in season and when the season for that variety ends you start seeing the cured version in stores. I'd have to ask the produce manager at a big supermarket how this stuff gets decided, though.

←

It *is* the variety. If you are growing onions, you will find that some are recommended for keeping, others not.

The sweet onions aren't keepers. The others, regardless of the 'cure' (but if they aren't cured right, they won't keep as well either) will gradually lose what sweetness they have as they age, though some are quite sweet out of the field. Once cured, you get the most mileage out of them if you can keep them dark, dry and cool.

If you want to keep those walla wallas, vidalias (my personal favorites) or other sweets, put them in the fridge, and don't bother stocking up. Even in the fridge they have a limited life.

[Hawthorne]

Kinda connected, re. longevity of vegetables........

My inlaws are farmers over in Lincolnshire, UK and insist that many vegetables, in particular carrots, stay fresh much, much longer unwashed, and I do mean unwashed; fresh out of the ground with plenty of soil attached.

I happen to think they are right.

Anybody else heard this?

←

Yep. I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't true - up to the time when the hard frosts hit, they are best in the ground, and Ruth Stout said the best thing to do just before that was to put bales of straw over the rows to keep the ground from freezing, so you could just go and pull them all winter.

How good the straw would be would depend on just how hard your freezes are maybe, (Ruth was gardening in Conneticut, if I remember correctly), but I suspect the nearer to being in the ground they are the better, probably. Lacking a root cellar, though, I want them washed.

But when we get out of town, (does this seem to be turning into a kind of litany?), I plan to do the straw thing if I can't organize a root cellar.

[Hawthorne]

This is a subject that bugs me. When and why did it all start?  Refrigeration doesn't kill bacteria or stop enzyme action. It might preserve the quality of some foods longer than if at room temp, but is the label for that reason or for legal 'coverage'??

I thought that salts and sugars were preservatives in themselves -- so why the caution? 

Years ago, when I first started keeping ingredients for my beloved Chinese recipes, I checked each label for storage. One particular  ingredient -- "Chili Paste with Garlic" had no such caution on the label.  Somehow, over the years, someone got to them and all of a sudden --- there it was on the label-----Refrigerate after opening!!

←

But not only are their asses covered, you can sell MUCH bigger fridges this way.

I'm very casual about a lot of leftovers, there are sausages sitting on my cold stove now from dinner, and I will have no qualms about making sandwiches with them tomorrow. Cooked meat will keep a little longer in the fridge, but not all that much longer, I don't think. A lot of veg go to mush faster refrigerated than in a cabinet.

I don't refrigerate anything that is highly seasoned - I use very little ketchup, and have never found any had gone bad when I did go to use it. Jams and jellies will make a little mold on the top; my mother used to scrape this off - I do the same, unless it's pretty near the end of the jar. All that sugar keeps them pretty well. Pickles taste better cold, so if I remember and have the space I put them in the fridge, but the ones in the cabinet do fine.

I refrigerate or freeze dairy stuff except soft cheese, and eggs because they are all washed, cold cuts ... those things do keep better colder, I think, but there are a lot of things we refrigerate that would probably be better kept in a cool, but not cold, pantry. One thing working against refrigerators I suspect is lack of ventilation.

A friend who spent several years in France said they refrigerated very little, and in fact many people had no reefers at all. She said standard storage for many leftovers was the cold oven - coincidentally the place I stash many of mine to keep them safe from the dogs java script:emoticon(':rolleyes:')

Much of this is cultural .. in the US, we are deeply indoctrinated to have our environment sterile if at all possible. It's not only not possible, it's not healthy. But the more food we throw out, the more trade agribiz gets. The bigger our reefers need to be, the more profit to the manufacturers. The less food savvy we are, the better the refiners and food companies do.

Lotta propaganda out there people ...