Cheese With Other Stuff In It

[Khadija]

I think that it is an aesthetic mistake to put non-cheese stuff in cheese. I don't mean that it's wrong to use cheese to make a dish that has non-cheese stuff in it (although I have related concerns about that). I think it's wrong to produce cheese with non-cheese stuff in it.

Example: Someone brought over a wedge of gouda with cumin in it. Everyone raved about how good the cheese was. I want to say: "You're not talking about the cheese, you're talking about the cumin." (Among other cheeses), I served a 2 year old gouda. I thought the cheese itself was delicious. And everyone was raving about that cumin stuff. In all fairness, the cumin-cheese was pleasant to eat. But I just don't see the point. The flavour of the cheese gets totally lost.

I don't get me started about putting fruit in cheese. I always eat fruit with cheese. But why put fruit in cheese?

I don't get it.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Khadija (log)

[Fat Guy]

In most cases, such ingredients are used to mask or enhance inferior cheese, and in most of the rest of the cases such ingredients mask the flavors of good cheese. I would not, however, make a blanket statement against adding anything to cheese ever. There are, for example, several delicious Italian cheeses that incorporate truffles.

[docsconz]

Cheese is just a way of manipulating milk so that it can be preserved and enhanced. While I certainly enjoy and in many if not most cases, prefer cheeses without added ingredients, I see nothing inherently wrong with enhancing it however the cheesemaker sees fit so that a good product ensues. The art of cooking is combining ingredients to achieve something delicious. So long as the cheese tastes good, I don't really care what has been added to it. Whether I will prefer it to other cheeses depends upon the other cheeses.

One of my absolute favorite cheeses right now is Truffle Tremor from Cypress Grove. The combination provides true synergy.

[Jaymes]

Example:  Someone brought over a wedge of gouda with cumin in it.  Everyone raved about how good the cheese was.  I want to say:  "You're not talking about the cheese, you're talking about the cumin."

But they weren't talking about the cumin. They weren't each sitting around with a bowl of cumin and a spoon. They were talking about the blended flavors of the cheese with the cumin. I'd bet nobody begrudged you your enjoyment of the plain cheese, so it's hard to understand why you resent their enjoyment of the blended product.

It's not like the blended cheeses are going to replace the originals, so that your favorites are under threat and you feel besieged in some way. There's plenty of room on the cheese tray for both the purists and for a tasty smoked jalapeno cheddar.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Jaymes (log)

[Khadija]

Points well taken. It's true that the general claim about being against cheese with other ingredients in it is put a little too strongly. I haven't tried cheese with truffle in it, but I bet I'd like it.

I also don't want to sound like I berate people for enjoying cheese with stuff in it. (Although every cheese I've ever tried with with cranberries has been, in my opinion, absolutely disgusting). Hell, I enjoyed eating that cumin-gouda. But I think what I find so strange is talking about a cheese being particularly good, when the focal taste-point is something other than cheese.

I also have an aversion to adding add-ins to mac n' cheese. I had an argument with someone last night about putting bacon in mac n' cheese. He said that bacon makes it taste better, so why not add it. I said that bacon would make dog-shit taste better. A really good mac n' cheese does not need any flavour "enhancers" (in my opinion anyway). I guess I feel sort of the same way about cheese-without-non-cheese-stuff.

[MarketStEl]

I also have an aversion to adding add-ins to mac n' cheese. I had an argument with someone last night about putting bacon in mac n' cheese.  He said that bacon makes it taste better, so why not add it.  I said that bacon would make dog-shit taste better.  A really good mac n' cheese does not need any flavour "enhancers" (in my opinion anyway).  I guess I feel sort of the same way about cheese-without-non-cheese-stuff.

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(emphasis added)

Substitute "cheese" for "bacon" in the boldface sentence above and you have my exact opinion on cheese as an ingredient in or additive to dishes.

Which is why I don't quite get the purism on cheese with added ingredients (though I agree with you wholeheartedly on the inappropriateness of cranberries as an add-in -- I got a horribly incorrect impression of Wensleydale, which is a wonderful crumbly cheese, by first being exposed to some with cranberries in it).

One of my favorite cheeses to serve guests is a cheese that by definition has non-cheese stuff in it -- Cotswold, which is Cheshire with onion and chives. The three tastes together are IMO better than the components eaten separately (I think the common cliche for this is "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts"). And, I would suggest, that sensation -- not the add-in itself -- is what leads people to say that a particular cheese-and-something-else mixture (whether that something else is herbs, fruit, or Guinness) is so good.

[gfron1]

Let's see...Leyden, apricot stilton, lemon stilton, blueberry stilton, all of the truffle cheeses...no complaints from me. Yummm.

I don't see much difference between this and ingredients that cheeses are often aged in - hay, barolo must, rosemary, etc. I can go psycho foodie with the next guy, but that doesn't mean that purism is the only or best way to go.

Rosemary manchego is a mistake in my opinion. Leyden is not. Brescianella Alla Aquavitae is a delight. So, I say to the cheesemakers - have fun and we'll decide which we like.

[Dianabanana]

I think it's a good way to get food poisoning if the cheesemaker isn't careful. I lost a weekend to a slice of pepper jack cheese once. Seems like it would be the perfect environment for the growth of anaerobic bacteria, doesn't it? Perhaps someone wiser in the ways of cheese can explain what goes on.

[Khadija]

Let me emphasise that I like eating cheese alongside other stuff, especially fruit. I also may be making a bad inference to the idea that I don't like cheese-with-stuff-in-it, based on too little experience with good cheese-with-stuff-in-it. I think I've eaten some pretty good cheese, but my experience is nowhere as vast as the experience of some of the people around here.

However, I still suspect that I strongly prefer "pure" cheese (I put "pure" in scare quotes, because I know there are conceptual problems with using that term). You guys have convinced me to experiment. I love Stilton. I can't say I like the sound of Stilton with lemon or blueberries. Maybe apricot. We'll see...

[Fat Guy]

Well, again, I have to agree that most examples of cheese-with-stuff are bad, and that the function of the stuff is to hide the fact that the cheese is flavorless junk.

[Jaymes]

However, I still suspect that I strongly prefer "pure" cheese (I put "pure" in scare quotes, because I know there are conceptual problems with using that term).  You guys have convinced me to experiment.  I love Stilton.  I can't say I like the sound of Stilton with lemon or blueberries.  Maybe apricot.  We'll see...

Speaking just for myself, I also generally prefer good examples of the cheesemaker's art, unblended with something. But I'm currently working my way through a fabulous chevre infused with peppercorns and other herbs and spices and marinated in olive oil.

I do think that some cheeses lend themselves better to various additives, and some don't. I agree that the thought of Stilton blended with anything doesn't sound particularly appealing. In fact, it sounds dreadful.

[Fat Guy]

Havarti with caraway seeds is nice.

[Morten]

Cheese with cumin in is a tradition in Denmark - eaten and enjoyed it since i was a kid. Even alot dont like it, there is a large group of danes that does.

And i must say that if it taste good (and dosnt make your sick or worse) im all for it.

[christine007]

Last year, as a Christmas promotion, my grocery store had this wonderful English cheddar that had a hint of horseradish. It was outstanding.

[Khadija]

I think I might have set up my point the wrong way. I don't think that it's essentially wrong to put stuff in cheese. I also don't dislike all cheese with stuff in it. As I've said, I found the cumin-Gouda pleasant.

Fat Guy has basically captured the situation that bothers me: Stuff gets added to average (or mediocre or worse) cheese, and the quality of the cheese is masked. If people (including me) enjoy eating that stuff, no problem. But I don't think it makes sense to talk about that stuff and a really high-quality artisan-produced cheese in the same context. I'm tempted to say we're talking about two distinct categories of stuff.

I also accept that some cheese-with-stuff consists of good quality cheese, enhanced by the flavour of something else. For various reasons, I don't see that much.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Khadija (log)

[Shannon L.]

You guys have convinced me to experiment.  I love Stilton.  I can't say I like the sound of Stilton with lemon or blueberries.  Maybe apricot.  We'll see...

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I'm all for experimenting and trying new things. I want that up front. If you like Stilton don't bother with the fruit studded kind. They are completely different cheeses. The Stiltons with fruit aren't blue, nor do they even come close to the flavor of a pure Stilton. Just a warning before your experiment sends you off the deep end.

[Khadija]

You guys have convinced me to experiment.  I love Stilton.  I can't say I like the sound of Stilton with lemon or blueberries.  Maybe apricot.  We'll see...

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I'm all for experimenting and trying new things. I want that up front. If you like Stilton don't bother with the fruit studded kind. They are completely different cheeses. The Stiltons with fruit aren't blue, nor do they even come close to the flavor of a pure Stilton. Just a warning before your experiment sends you off the deep end.

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The above point speaks to the other side of the same issue. I would think that stuff (especially acidic fruit) in a high quality cheese would interfere with the cheese. I like having fresh fruit to eat with cheese, especially blues. One of the things about fruit-in-cheese that always makes me dubious is the idea of the acid and sugar from the fruit blending with the cheese.

I won't go too crazy with the experiments, don't worry. I'll try anything once, but I am pretty careful when it comes to spending money, and cheese is expensive. One of the reasons this stuff-in-cheese issue gets to me is that, in my crowd (junior professors and grad students), no one has much money, but everyone spends as much as they can possibly afford on food. A popular social gathering is the "wine and cheese" party. In my opinion, a lot of money is wasted at these gatherings on pretty mediocre cheese-with-stuff and also cheese flavoured-with-liquid-smoke. I don't blame my friends. I blame the "fancy cheese" sections of grocery stores. I honestly really don't mind eating that stuff, but I'd rather not have it take the stage of cheese-dedicated events.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Khadija (log)

[andiesenji]

One of my favorite cheeses to serve guests is a cheese that by definition has non-cheese stuff in it -- Cotswold, which is Cheshire with onion and chives.  The three tastes together are IMO better than the components eaten separately (I think the common cliche for this is "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts").  And, I would suggest, that sensation -- not the add-in itself -- is what leads people to say that a particular cheese-and-something-else mixture (whether that something else is herbs, fruit, or Guinness) is so good.

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I agree wholeheartedly that some combinations are greater than the sum of the parts and this is one of the superior combinations.

Another that does it for me is the combination of white Stilton with dried apricots. I love Stilton on its own but there is just something about the combination of salt/tart/sweet that does wonders for my tastebuds.

I have made cheese, mostly soft fresh cheeses, but a few hard, aged cheeses in the past and it was not necessarily an inferior cheese that I used with herbs, spices and fruits, but something that teamed well to get the results I wanted.

"Additives" from the obvious to the microscopic, have been going into and around cheeses for thousands of years. The molds that produce the blues, and other living organisms that affect and enhance cheeses are important, if sometimes strange.

(Consider Mimolette, for instance.)

Wrapping cheeses in leaves was probably one of the earliest methods of affecting the flavor as well as assisting in preservation.

"Pure" cheeses, without ANY outside influences, would be pretty bland, on the whole.

[Khadija]

One of my favorite cheeses to serve guests is a cheese that by definition has non-cheese stuff in it -- Cotswold, which is Cheshire with onion and chives.  The three tastes together are IMO better than the components eaten separately (I think the common cliche for this is "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts").  And, I would suggest, that sensation -- not the add-in itself -- is what leads people to say that a particular cheese-and-something-else mixture (whether that something else is herbs, fruit, or Guinness) is so good.

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I agree wholeheartedly that some combinations are greater than the sum of the parts and this is one of the superior combinations.

Another that does it for me is the combination of white Stilton with dried apricots. I love Stilton on its own but there is just something about the combination of salt/tart/sweet that does wonders for my tastebuds.

I have made cheese, mostly soft fresh cheeses, but a few hard, aged cheeses in the past and it was not necessarily an inferior cheese that I used with herbs, spices and fruits, but something that teamed well to get the results I wanted.

"Additives" from the obvious to the microscopic, have been going into and around cheeses for thousands of years. The molds that produce the blues, and other living organisms that affect and enhance cheeses are important, if sometimes strange.

(Consider Mimolette, for instance.)

Wrapping cheeses in leaves was probably one of the earliest methods of affecting the flavor as well as assisting in preservation.

"Pure" cheeses, without ANY outside influences, would be pretty bland, on the whole.

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It occurred to me that someone might point out that blues have add-ins. I consider blues to be, for lack of a better word, a "pure" cheese. "Pure" is actually a terrible word, because that's not what I mean at all. I just mean cheese without non-cheese-stuff in it. I think the mould in blues counts as "cheese-stuff" unlike cumin, which is clearly "non-cheese-stuff." Obviously there are many, many borderline cases.

[andiesenji]

This one gives even me pause.......

However, I don't eat chocolate - I have an allergy.

I also am unable to consume cheeses "flavored" with any type of "raw" liquor or fortified wine because of an allergy to alcohol.

I have stewed or reduced fortified wines to get the alcohol content below the level that affects me and have "washed" cheeses with the resulting liquid.

Several years ago, on the PBS show "California Heartland" one of the artisan cheesemakers in the Sonoma or Napa area, either wrote or discussed an artcle about the development of a "niche" for flavored cheeses because of the apparent added value was attractive to consumers. I remember scanning it but it is probably on an old hard drive as I can't find it by doing a simple search.

Purists still have a huge number of choices of "unadulterated" cheeses and if adding something to the stuff allows cheesemakers to stay in business, I am all for it. It is very possible that a cheese with "something added" may bring a new consumer into the land of "real" cheese, and open the market a bit more, thus spurring producers to greater efforts and possibly even lowering the price of really good cheeses.

I don't think anyone has mentioned smoking yet. I am not really fond of most smoked cheese but there is one called "Aged Full Moon Swiss" from Wisconsin (Mousehouse Cheesehaus) that is extraordinary.

I found the article online - I thought the search had turned up nothing, but it just took a while:

cheese article

It's hard to believe it was 11 years ago.

Edited October 3, 2007 by andiesenji (log)

[Kouign Aman]

Monterey Jack is a cheese very well suited to add-ins. I have to buy some now. Its been a while since I've had it.

A local sausage shop makes a smoked gouda that I liked quite a bit. The horseradish cheese I tried was also good - a rich cheese with its own bite, that played well with the horseradish bite.

[adegiulio]

Khadija, I'm in your camp. While some cheeses with other stuff in them might be tasty, I usually steer clear of them. We have a purveyor at our Sunday farmers market that is always putting stuff in his cheese...grapes, peppercorns, peppers, sundried tomatoes. No thank you. Some cheese that have a tradition of having things added to them (blues, morbier, the scrumptious truffled cheeses) work fine for me. Sticking jalapenos into cheddar is heresy.

[maggiethecat]

bacon would make dog-shit taste better.

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I can't believe that no one has snatched that up as a sig line yet. (My mother would occasionally drape the surface of her mac and cheese with some parcooked bacon before sending it into the oven for that last bubbley bake. Your friend is right -- it's fantastic.)

On to flavored cheeses. To paraphrase Duke Ellington, if it tastes good it is good. I don't think wacky cheesemakers should throw the fruit bowl at it (I prefer my fruit on the side, thanks) but I do like some of the herbed soft cheeses. And yes, I want my ash.

One additive I truly detest is smoke. Talk about a way to mask (indeed eliminate!) the flavour of a Gouda, mediocre or splendid. Any smoked cheese simply tastes like fatty smoke to me. I really hate them.

[plk]

Some cheeses with stuff in them are really special, and I don't think you could easily replicate the same effect just by piling stuff on top of the cheese. I was picking up a selection of cheeses a while back for a party and was given a suggestion by the cheesemonger there to try "No Woman" cheese, which has Jamaican jerk spices. That did not sound particularly appealing, but when I tasted it, wow, was it ever great! It had tiny bits of brown sugar and clove, and it was just the most interesting and surprising thing I'd eaten in a while. Cheeses like that aren't all that versatile, though. I can't imagine seriously using it in a recipe or a sandwich.

[Toliver]

Some cheeses with stuff in them are really special, and I don't think you could easily replicate the same effect just by piling stuff on top of the cheese. I was picking up a selection of cheeses a while back for a party and was given a suggestion by the cheesemonger there to try "No Woman" cheese, which has Jamaican jerk spices. That did not sound particularly appealing, but when I tasted it, wow, was it ever great! It had tiny bits of brown sugar and clove, and it was just the most interesting and surprising thing I'd eaten in a while. Cheeses like that aren't all that versatile, though. I can't imagine seriously using it in a recipe or a sandwich.

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That cheese sounds like it might go well with slices of apple or in a ham sandwich.