Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Pizza


waylman
 Share

Recommended Posts

Fmed - that is an awesome looking pizza!! That's exactly what I do for my pizza's - overnight rise in the fridge and a high hydration. I've have'nt used a sour dough startes as I think it can overwhelm the flavor of the crust - but I will give it a try in the future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fmed - that is an awesome looking pizza!! That's exactly what I do for my pizza's - overnight rise in the fridge and a high hydration. I've have'nt used a sour dough startes as I think it can overwhelm the flavor of the crust - but I will give it a try in the future.

Thanks! Give it a shot. Some starters are quite mild. I have two in my fridge - one I started from organic rye flour and pineapple juice which is fairly mild but has good flavour. The one I have adopted and use for pizza now is somewhat tart if you let it cold-rise for more than 18 hrs or so. They both behave quite differently.

fmed

de gustibus non est disputandum

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Totally agree with the slow rise - it provides the biggest improvement. I do a cold-rise in the fridge with a fairly wet dough (maybe 65-70% hydration) using a sourdough starter from a generous pizzaiolo.

Fab looking pizza. What temperature do you use? Convection/normal? Do you use a pizza stone?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks! It took much trial and error over the years.

It is a two-stage bake. First stage is done in my gas grill (Weber Q120) with a pizza stone preheated for about 15 minutes (it gets blazing hot and if you leave it preheat longer, you can scorch the bottom of the pie).

After about a minute in the Weber, I put it into my preheated oven (set to max ~ 550F) on another baking stone (preheated for about an 45min-1hr). I set the oven to broil for a couple of mins prior to transferring the pie. This stage cooks the top of the pie. If your timing is right, the pie should cook in another minute for a total of about 2 minutes total for both stages. Much longer and your crust toughens.

I should add that I have experimented with various milling grades - from Tipo 00 to regular AP flour. It does make a bit of difference in texture when I use the Caputo, but not really enough to justify the additional cost, IMO.

I have also tried using only the oven plus a baking stone at max temp, but the results were inferior to this method. (I haven't tried modding my oven or cooking in the self-clean cycle, etc. I'm pretty happy with the results I am getting.)

Of course, YMMV, so you will have to do your own experimenting.

(Sorry to take this thread OT).

DSCF8866.JPG

fmed

de gustibus non est disputandum

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both techniques are trying to achieve the same thing - simulating a hot hearth. It's difficult to get a balance between top heat and bottom heat without a good oven (wood-burning or otherwise). This is why I chose the two stage technique. I have tried HB's technique and it does work well, though I have to make smaller pizzas to fit my skillets. (Coincidentally, I have used a skillet to reheat delivery pizza for years.)

PS As a matter of interest, to get the woodsmoke flavour of a wood-fired pizza, I often use a smoker box in the BBQ or use a smidge of smoked sea salt in my tomato sauce (which is just crushed canned tomato and salt).

fmed

de gustibus non est disputandum

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a bit of a pizza geek. From my own experiments, research and from talking to pizzaiolos, I have come to believe that the effect of water hardness is overstated.

IMO, the factors that make the most difference in the texture of the crust are: the oven temp/heat, the selection of flour (eg regular AP vs tipo 00), the dough formulation (especially in terms of the addition of oil and hydration), the leavening process (eg using sourdoughs, pre-ferments, etc), and the method of stretching the dough (skin).

$0.02 (CAD).

-f

A. HARD WATER

This is water which contains appreciable amounts of the carbonate or sulphate of magnesium or calcium. One very noticeable feature about hard water is the great difficulty with which it forms a lather with soap. Water containing only the carbonates is called “Temporary” hard water, because these carbonates will separate out when the water is boiled and can be removed thus rendering the water soft. Water containing sulphates is termed “Permanent” hard water inasmuch as sulphates do not separate out when the water is boiled. Inasmuch as some mineral salts tend to strengthen the gluten, a certain degree of hardness in water is therefore desirable. Furthermore, the sulphate assists to a small extent in furnishing mineral nutrition to the yeast. However, an excessively hard water retards the progress of fermentation by toughening the gluten too greatly. Increased amounts of yeast usually will assist in overcoming this condition by bringing about a more vigorous conditioning or softening of the gluten,—thus preventing coarseness and harshness in the finished loaf.

B. SOFT WATER

This is water which is relatively free of the carbonates or sulphates of Calcium or Magnesium. Soft water forms a lather freely with soap. Real soft water used for bread making has a tendency to soften the gluten and result in a soft sticky dough. This condition, while not lessening

the activity of the yeast, considerably offsets the usual beneficial effects of the fermentation process in the dough batch, unless more salt is used. The use of Arkady eliminates the undesirable effects of soft water by supplying the necessary mineral salts for optimum gluten development and healthy dough fermentation.

As a person that has had, made and eaten pizza all over North America and Western Europe, I think water is very important, fmed your pizza looks fantastic, and prob tastes even better!!!! However, your using a sourdough crust, sourdough has a tremendous amount of converted proteins which will add to the crispness of the crust.

I was just in chicago, in a randon bar and ordered a pizza, the crust was beautiful. The hard water definitely helps, it makes the dough making process easier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I use delicious Abbotsford tap water and it works just fine for me.

Make 1 pie with tap water then make 1 pie with bottled. dasani or aquafina, you are a passionate person about your pizza, I would think that anything you can do to make it even better, you would, so.....when so we eat?

Gerald Tritt,

Co-Owner

Vera's Burger Shack

My Webpage

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have used all kinds of different water to make pizza including Dasani. Abbotsford tap water is better. Have you had my pizza?

Had a cheese wheel a cpl of months ago on my way back from okanagan, it was good, crust was a little over charred, quality ingredients, I would go back if I was in the area, I don't know that I would make a special trip to abbotsford.

Gerald Tritt,

Co-Owner

Vera's Burger Shack

My Webpage

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe you should make a trip out. The pizza is evolving all the time. I make my own fresh mozzarella nearly every day now and we are also I have started blending Caputo 00 pizzeria flour(from Italy) with our regular strong bread flour. I have been making my own pancetta and capicola for a couple of months now and I also just started using great organic plum tomatoes from Sardinia. We do get a lot of foodies and chefs that make the trip out for pizza and they pretty much all come back again I am proud to say.

As far as the water goes, I was going to install a water filtration system when we opened but after trying the water I found it unnecessary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Ah-Beetz has sold their shop in Abbottsford and is moving into a location in East Vancouver at Victoria & Kitchener. It's under construction now and opening for the summer, hopefully. This is a game-changer for Vancouver pizza, as far as I am concerned.

http://scoutmagazine.ca/2011/01/29/pizzeria-barbarella-to-table-hybrid-of-neapolitan-nyc-pizza-to-the-east-side/

http://www.pizzeriabarbarella.com/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a generic answer to the question.

Its the same answer as the one to "why are there no good cheesesteaks in the South?", or "Why can't I get a good Reuben sandwich in Dallas?" or "why do the fish tacos suck in Philly?" (boy do they!)

I think its because the average consumer in those areas doesn't know what good is. There is no local standard of comparison. Without that standard a pizza place can get away with cooking in a convection oven, using sweet sauce, and having a puffy bready crust. If that's all you've ever had it doesn't seem bad at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:rolleyes: Not trying to be disagreeable. Perhaps it has to do with the frame of reference?

I distill pure water for many uses. Everytime I serve distilled water to friends, I always get the same reaction,"Something is wrong with your water. It has a strange taste."

I have had many excellent pizzas in Vancourver. Perhaps you guys are so used to lousy pizzas elsewhere you are using them as standards to judge Vancourver pizza? :biggrin:

dcarch

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:rolleyes: Not trying to be disagreeable. Perhaps it has to do with the frame of reference?

I distill pure water for many uses. Everytime I serve distilled water to friends, I always get the same reaction,"Something is wrong with your water. It has a strange taste."

I have had many excellent pizzas in Vancourver. Perhaps you guys are so used to lousy pizzas elsewhere you are using them as standards to judge Vancourver pizza? :biggrin:

dcarch

Very possibly right. You have presented the flip side of my position.

Re distilled water. To me, DW is just wet, but not tasty in the least. We drink well water that is full of iron and lime. That sounds terrible, but it really is satisfying drinking water.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Ah-Beetz has sold their shop in Abbottsford and is moving into a location in East Vancouver at Victoria & Kitchener. It's under construction now and opening for the summer, hopefully. This is a game-changer for Vancouver pizza, as far as I am concerned.

http://scoutmagazine.ca/2011/01/29/pizzeria-barbarella-to-table-hybrid-of-neapolitan-nyc-pizza-to-the-east-side/

http://www.pizzeriabarbarella.com/

That's great! I made a detour to try their pizza last summer and it was excellent.

rg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's unfortunate but understandable. They never got the attention they deserved out here.

I wonder if they will truck in that delicious Abbotsford tap water. Water shouldn't have a taste, but this stuff does. It's not a good taste, but it's there. Nevertheless, they certainly made a nice crust with it.

Don't try to win over the haters. You're not the jackass whisperer."

Scott Stratten

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Had lunch at Bibo on Saturday. Very clean, simple room with a great tomato sauce and dough.

Really enjoyed the product - but had to be open minded. The menu is old world and if you do not ask for help... and how to order you will be disappointed.

Just ordering a pizza does not work.

Chef/Owner/Teacher

Website: Chef Fowke dot com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Also Novo Pizzeria & Wine Bar (Burrard & 5th) is opening this weekend, I believe. They've got a wood burning oven. Planning to give them a try in about a month's time, when they've had a chance to settle in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...