Cooking with "Chocolates and Confections" by Peter Greweling (Part 1)

schneich · February 4, 2008

For the caramel I have another recipe that use with salt , and its very popular as well ,I dont plan on using Greweling caramel for other things , I dont like the flavor or the consistency too much.I did use the caramel from the recipe for this ones though.
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would you mind posting the other recipe youre talking about (if its ok copyright wise ;-)

iam looking very hard for a good salt caramel recipe. our last pastry chef used to make

caramels that were very soft more, more like penuche. as far as i know penuche is just an agitated caramel to induce crystallization which makes it "fondant"

right ??

cheers

torsten s.

LucyInAust · February 4, 2008

I made a half batch of the sesame squares .... soooo easy!! Unfortunately all my photos are blurry so I can't put any up. I did cheat a bit :biggrin: , I didn't have the time to dip them (and I still can't keep chocolate in temper long enough for me to dip stuff ... well ... without spreading it all over the kitchen and getting grumpy!!!! :blink: ), so I just put a layer of dark chocolate on top, and sprinkled toasted sesame seeds on them.

I used Lindt milk chocolate for the centres, and Kennedy & Wilson 70% dark (an Australian chocolate) for top and bottom. VERY tasty for something so simple!

I'm off to do a one day chocolate course on the weekend, so I'm looking forward to that, though I can't see it solving my tempering problem as I know they just use the Mol'D'Art (or whatever the name is) melters ... have been considering lashing out on one of the chocovision (?!) machines ... but I really can't justify it for doing the occasional chocolate (then again, the amount of frustration it causes it might be worth while so I don't end up with chocolate on the ceiling!)!

tammylc · February 4, 2008

schneich, i use this salty caramel recipe from Epicurious, and it's great. I double the salt, though, as i like my caramel saltier than the base recipe.

**Chris Hennes** · February 9, 2008

This afternoon I was cruising through Greweling's book to scope out new things to try, and I started at the recipe I used for the Sleeping Beauties. Turning back a page he has a separate recipe for soft chocolate nougat that is similar, though not identical, to the one in the sleeping beauties. At the end of that recipe he includes the note:

Note: The dry ingredients in this nougat will cause it to crystallize and develop a short, tender texture over the next 24 to 48 hours. While it can be cut and dipped on the day it is made, it requires 24 to 48 hours before it can be considered finished and ready for consumption.

Do you supposed this also applies to the recipe in the sleeping beauties, i.e. did I throw away a perfectly good nougat that just needed to age?!? I could cry... :sad:

mrose · February 9, 2008

This afternoon I was cruising through Greweling's book to scope out new things to try, and I started at the recipe I used for the Sleeping Beauties. Turning back a page he has a separate recipe for soft chocolate nougat that is similar, though not identical, to the one in the sleeping beauties. At the end of that recipe he includes the note:
Note: The dry ingredients in this nougat will cause it to crystallize and develop a short, tender texture over the next 24 to 48 hours. While it can be cut and dipped on the day it is made, it requires 24 to 48 hours before it can be considered finished and ready for consumption.
Do you supposed this also applies to the recipe in the sleeping beauties, i.e. did I throw away a perfectly good nougat that just needed to age?!? I could cry...
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From the quote stated: you can dip it but let it age 24 - 48 hours before eating.

**Chris Hennes** · February 9, 2008

From the quote stated: you can dip it but let it age 24 - 48 hours before eating.
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My question is, does this apply to the nougat recipe on the following page, with the sleeping beauties? The recipe is slightly different, but I'd hate to think I threw out an entire batch of nougat that there was nothing wrong with, on the basis of its stiff texture, when that texture was going to change over the next day of two and transform into the texture I was looking for.

Re-reading the chapter leads me to believe that I made at least one other mistake, e.g. not whipping enough air into the egg whites before adding the sugar syrup. In the recipe he just gives timings for when to start each thing, but in the chapter text he gives the texture you need to be looking for, and I was way under-whipped in the time he stated. Really, I think the timings he gives in that recipe are way off. My mixture had not cooled anywhere near down to 120F after only eight minutes.

Edited February 9, 2008 by Chris Hennes (log)

CKatCook · February 10, 2008

This question has probably been asked a million times, but I cannot find the answer anywhere.

I have the book and I am looking purchase a good amount of chocolate to begin attempting to do the recipes. Where is good place to purchase say, 10 lbs. that you just don't want to cry because the recipes turned out bad?

I need equipment I can see from what I have read in the front of the book. What is the best way to do this without breaking the bank? Some of the molds and stuff I see in the book look expensive is there a way to get less expensive versions or do without (OK, don't laugh, maybe not)? What if you don't have frames? Guitar?

I have been reading around on the boards and will continue to do so, but I am wondering how I can start learning, and get better if I decide to make more.

Thank you once again...

metta,

kat

lapin d'or · February 10, 2008

Chris, The chocolate nougat I made from the sleeping beauties also did not go well. I only have a hand mixer (no longer working well since I made this recipe) and the steps did not seem to be quite right from start to finish. I ended up hand kneading in the milk powder and cocoa but it was very tough, sticking to everything. I felt I lost a lot of the mixture stuck to the bowl, mixer, my hands, spoons - everything.

I would say the texture improved after a day or so but not enough for me to try it again. It reminded me of a firmer version of a milky way bar (do you have those in the US?) just not tasty enough for the trouble. I only made the nougat not the caramel.

I nearly threw mine away but I was making stuff for a sale and really needed another item for my table so I kept it. I put samples out but it was not popular even tho it was dipped in a good milk chocolate.

I am hoping to soon have a set of trusted recipes to make up for the few sales that I do; so they are not such a roller coaster journey! The just keep the experimenting for the times in between.

gfron1 · February 10, 2008

Kat - you're probably going to think the quanitities of chocolate are too large in THIS topic, but you might be surprised.

John DePaula · February 10, 2008

This question has probably been asked a million times, but I cannot find the answer anywhere.
I have the book and I am looking purchase a good amount of chocolate to begin attempting to do the recipes. Where is good place to purchase say, 10 lbs. that you just don't want to cry because the recipes turned out bad?

Here is a thread about sourcing chocolate: Sourcing Chocolate

I need equipment I can see from what I have read in the front of the book. What is the best way to do this without breaking the bank? Some of the molds and stuff I see in the book look expensive is there a way to get less expensive versions or do without (OK, don't laugh, maybe not)? What if you don't have frames? Guitar?

You can find some things on eBay or possibly Craigslist.

Frames can be made inexpensively from materials you can find at hardware stores - aluminum rods, etc. (just be sure it's food safe) or even something called a "metal supermarket."

A guitar is way way too expensive and bulky unless you're doing commercial quantities. Try a long cheese knife, instead.

I have been reading around on the boards and will continue to do so, but I am wondering how I can start learning, and get better if I decide to make more.
Thank you once again...
metta,
kat
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CKatCook · February 11, 2008

Thank you everyone for your wonderful replies. I guess I have some shopping to do before I can begin! I am very excited to have the book and cannot wait to get started!

Do you think 5 or 10 lbs is about right to get started? I am still learning so I imagine alot will be thrown away. I hope not, but you know how that goes!

gfron1 · February 11, 2008

Nothing will be thrown away - that's what brownies are for.

**Chris Hennes** · February 11, 2008

Thank you everyone for your wonderful replies. I guess I have some shopping to do before I can begin! I am very excited to have the book and cannot wait to get started!
Do you think 5 or 10 lbs is about right to get started? I am still learning so I imagine alot will be thrown away. I hope not, but you know how that goes!
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I am just beginning and I went ahead and bought the 5kg (11lb) boxes of dark, milk and white. Part of the rationale behind this was playing mental tricks on myself. I did not want to run into situations where I was concerned about "running out" of chocolate and so didn't want to try a risky recipe, etc. Now, the chocolate is a sunk cost and I may as well use it all up before I have to move this summer :smile: . And as Rob mentioned, you won't throw much away... in fact, if you are only making 1/2 batches (that's what I do) you don't actually use that much chocolate per batch.

John DePaula · February 11, 2008

Thank you everyone for your wonderful replies. I guess I have some shopping to do before I can begin! I am very excited to have the book and cannot wait to get started!
Do you think 5 or 10 lbs is about right to get started? I am still learning so I imagine alot will be thrown away. I hope not, but you know how that goes!
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If it's just plain chocolate that didn't temper well, then you can always remelt and retemper. No need to throw away.

And if it's a bonbon or such, you can actually make caramels with them. I call them Kitchen Sink Caramels because you can take all of your "mistakes" and throw them into the pot with extra glucose and cream. Thought I probably wouldn't put any Mint flavors in there...

Remember: Making Chocolates is Making Fun!

schneich · February 11, 2008

PLEASE give me your dimensions for the "kitchen sink caramel" i have tons of ganache leftovers and i cant produce THAT much cinnamon chocolats ;-)

cheers

t.

John DePaula · February 11, 2008

PLEASE give me your dimensions for the "kitchen sink caramel" i have tons of ganache leftovers and i cant produce THAT much cinnamon chocolats ;-)
cheers
t.
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I haven't made these yet (someone around here has though) but I'm collecting and freezing leftover ganaches to give it a try sometime.

From Wybauw's Fine Chocolates book:

2000g Chocolates for reprocessing

700g Water

2g Sodium Bicarbonate

500g Sugar (if required)

500g Corn Syrup (or glucose)

Butter (if pralines don't have any)

Vanilla Extract

Heat chocolates, water and sodium bicarbonate, stirring well to avoid scorching. When it begins to boil, strain and add sugar and corn syrup. Return to boil and when it reaches 110C (230F) add butter. As soon as you reach the desired cooking point, add vanilla and pour into a frame on a silicone mat. Cool. Cut. Dip in chocolate if desired.

chocofoodie · February 15, 2008

Hey everyone,

How faithful are you guys to the grewling recipes? I wanted to make the sleeping beauties, but the ingredients list a lot of 'stuff'. what can i cut out that isnt really necessary? Is glucose syrup integral? id rather make them without. even his ganache recipe calls for glucose syrup, and i just make it with cream and chocolate.

thanks for the help!

Kerry Beal · February 15, 2008

Hey everyone,
How faithful are you guys to the grewling recipes? I wanted to make the sleeping beauties, but the ingredients list a lot of 'stuff'. what can i cut out that isnt really necessary? Is glucose syrup integral? id rather make them without. even his ganache recipe calls for glucose syrup, and i just make it with cream and chocolate.
thanks for the help!
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I fool around with the flavouring - but not with the basic technique. I would not take out the glucose, in ganache it adds to shelf life among other things.

schneich · February 16, 2008

we use a lot of the greweling recipes in our repertoire, and we are quite satisfied with the results. sometimes the recipes have unnessesary steps, so you just skip them. i also never temper my chocolate for the ganache, but id do emulsify with a stickblender every time. and finally i would give you a good advice USE THE GLUCOSE (or invert sugar) cause the glucose keeps your emulsion emulsified and stable.

cheers

t.

John DePaula · February 16, 2008

Hey everyone,
How faithful are you guys to the grewling recipes? I wanted to make the sleeping beauties, but the ingredients list a lot of 'stuff'. what can i cut out that isnt really necessary? Is glucose syrup integral? id rather make them without. even his ganache recipe calls for glucose syrup, and i just make it with cream and chocolate.
thanks for the help!
←
I fool around with the flavouring - but not with the basic technique. I would not take out the glucose, in ganache it adds to shelf life among other things.
←

we use a lot of the greweling recipes in our repertoire, and we are quite satisfied with the results. sometimes the recipes have unnessesary steps, so you just skip them. i also never temper my chocolate for the ganache, but id do emulsify with a stickblender every time. and finally i would give you a good advice USE THE GLUCOSE (or invert sugar) cause the glucose keeps your emulsion emulsified and stable.
cheers
t.
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I agree with all that what Kerry and Schneich have said. I will just add that if you're only making chocolates for family/friends and you don't need an exceptional shelf-life, then you have a lot of leeway to experiment with the recipes. Don't like glucose, then leave it out. BUT, you're going to have to make up the difference in sweetness someway/somehow...

On another note, I was skeptical about tempered ganaches but now I'm a convert. It does make for a better mouthfeel, in my opinion. They say it improves shelf-life, too. Perhaps. I don't really know.

chocofoodie · February 16, 2008

Ok I finished the sleeping beauties last night, so it can be done in few hours .
The process its ok , I just find his recipes to contain too many ingredients that are not necessary :-P. Cutting the recipe in half its a little bit a pain , because the quantities are minimal for certain ingredients.The nougat in my KA was like invisible and really didint get too much volume, you would need more eggswhite and syrup , anyway , they came out ok and I might try it again with the full amount .I didnt use glucose syrup , because I have little left over and I didnt want to waste it ( in case the recipe didnt work for me ) so I used some organic corn syrup , that has some taste in it and gave the sleeping beauty a malty flavor , that I dont mind at all :-P
PS: the color in both the caramel and the nougat is darker due the organic corn syrup , is dark .Well now I know they work so next time i will do it with the glucose syrup.I like them but I find them little bit too sweet and chewy.I like the nougat I use because isnt that chewy.
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Desiderio, these look amazing! I like the darker coloring of yours better than the ones in the Grewling book.

chocofoodie · February 16, 2008

PLEASE give me your dimensions for the "kitchen sink caramel" i have tons of ganache leftovers and i cant produce THAT much cinnamon chocolats ;-)
cheers
t.
←
I haven't made these yet (someone around here has though) but I'm collecting and freezing leftover ganaches to give it a try sometime.
From Wybauw's Fine Chocolates book:
2000g Chocolates for reprocessing
700g Water
2g Sodium Bicarbonate
500g Sugar (if required)
500g Corn Syrup (or glucose)
Butter (if pralines don't have any)
Vanilla Extract
Heat chocolates, water and sodium bicarbonate, stirring well to avoid scorching. When it begins to boil, strain and add sugar and corn syrup. Return to boil and when it reaches 110C (230F) add butter. As soon as you reach the desired cooking point, add vanilla and pour into a frame on a silicone mat. Cool. Cut. Dip in chocolate if desired.
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I think this is going to save my life! You can FREEZE left over ganache?! I make these tiny batches of chocolates and I always have extra that I never know what to do with... and i LOVE caramels :-)

chocofoodie · February 16, 2008

I agree with all that what Kerry and Schneich have said. I will just add that if you're only making chocolates for family/friends and you don't need an exceptional shelf-life, then you have a lot of leeway to experiment with the recipes. Don't like glucose, then leave it out. BUT, you're going to have to make up the difference in sweetness someway/somehow...
On another note, I was skeptical about tempered ganaches but now I'm a convert. It does make for a better mouthfeel, in my opinion. They say it improves shelf-life, too. Perhaps. I don't really know.
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I agree about the tempered ganache. Though you are an expert and I, well... i am just interested in learning.. and for me the tempered ganaches have been easier for me to work with, and have had more positive reviews from people on smoothness.

and that's the thing.. I am just making tiny batches for family/friends, I usually make like 20 pieces that are done within a day, two at most. And I like the taste of the ganache without the glucose syrup, so that's another reason why i wouldnt want to add it, i think it will make it to sweet for my taste.

But I dont know how to simplify the recipes.. for things like the basic ganache, I had a recipe for basic ganache that I just followed. but for these more advanced things, I dont know what to do. I have never made anything with glucose syrup or invert sugar. I made caramels, but I made them by boiling a can of sweetened condensed milk. and i have every intention of doing that again for the sleeping beauties, its the nougat I need to work on.

Desiderio · February 17, 2008

Thank you :smile: .I think the color is due the organic corn syrup I used ( the one I found was very dark and had a tad of malty flavor , not bad at all )

As for the sleeping beauties I have to confirm and say that the recipe is not reliable for what I am concern.The quantity are too small and hard to work with.You right there are many ingredients and a little amount of them,the nougat that Kerry has here posted ( nougat for snekers bars) its much easier and reliable , it comes perfect everytime and the ingredient list its much shorter.As for the glucose syrup and inverted sugar, I can tell you are concern about the use of them, but it really isnt that big of a deal, just use it as describe ina recipe, expecially for caramel and sugar work, for ganaches you can leave that out if you want.

I love Greweling book, the descriptions and tecniques are great , I love the slabbed method and many other things, as for the recipe I have the feeling that as a professional and instructor he might use differnt methods and equipments, I dont know but I have a feeling about the recipes and his I know they arent always user friendly.

mrose · February 23, 2008

The recipes by Greweling are the only one that I have seen that give batch weights & dimensions for slabbed ganache. Most other recipes are like the ones by Wybauw which just say pour into a frame; what size? When you try to makes these it is just a guess.

After looking at many of the recipes in Greweling it seems that a batch weight of ~25 - 26 oz will work in a frame that is 12 x 12 x 1/4. Has anyone tried using this or another correlation with ganache recipes?

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