Stoves and Ovens: Wolf? Thermador? Bluestar? Viking?

[greenwich st]

Thanks, Derek. I will be thinking "anger" next time I toast a gratin! In the mean time I figured out that the Monogram dual fuel needs 220 volts for the oven which our apartment kitchen doesn't allow. I haven't seen a negative report on Bluestar anywhere on the web, and you confirm it's a winner. We're going to go for it.

We're staying in a sublet with a leaky, unusable '80s-era restaurant Wolf -- fills the place with nauseating fumes within a minute. It's been salads and take out every day, so I can't wait for my new stove. (I'll have to find a non-cook to take my beautiful-but-brainless Thermador.)

[emsny]

I have read on line about problems with the ignition on BlueStar ranges - is this no longer an issue with new ones? (One wishes for the option to order ranges with pilot lights. <Sigh>)

[Soupcon]

I have ignition problems on my simmer burner on which I spilled hot sugar from not watching the pot. However my trusty barbeque lighter works just as well. The ignition still fires so you know the burner has been turned on but the burner does not light. The ignition quits firing as soon as the burner is lit manually.

[emsny]

Thanks, Soupcon. I guess caramel-clog doesn't count as an inherent problem with the ignition - and it is good to hear that the burner can still be lit the old-fashioned way.

[kbjesq]

I have a Bluestar cooktop and I'm in love with it.

However, if I was in the market for a 30" range, I would definitely take a look at the Capital 30" range. It can be configured with a high output wok burner (25k) and the simmer burners go down to 800 degrees. I've heard good things about the broiler, and it's got a built-in rotisserie. Check it out here.

[emsny]

Thanks re: Capital. But I have an elderly Garland six-burner now, and I really like the star burners, so BlueStar has particular appeal for me.

Edited August 6, 2007 by emsny (log)

[Joe Blowe]

I'd say that sticking with BlueStar is a wise decision -- straight-forward design, superior burners, no electronics to fail, very easy to work on by any qualified technician (or advanced homeowner, and not that they need repairs often), and so on.

One problem with the Capital is the burner design. As some may know, when Fisher Paykel purchased DCS the original owners left the company and started Capital Cooking Equipment Inc. And if you look at Capital's product line, it's basically the same as DCS, including the burner design.

What's the problem with DCS burner? From BlueStar's website, the David Rosengarten review:

TEST DEEP FRYING -- [...] Viking easily grabbed second place in this test; it took six minutes and 35 seconds for the oil to come to 365 degrees. Moreover, only the Blue Star and Viking were able to maintain the initial heat; after reaching the target temperature, the oil in the saucepan on the Viking range rose quickly to 390 degrees before dropping slightly, two minutes later, to 380 degrees, where it held steady. Viking's success in this test may have had something to do with its air-flow qualities; The design pushes the flame inward, creating a kind of cone. This may well be better for maintaining oil temperature, especially since the DCS, with its wide configuration of flame, was the biggest disappointment in his test. Both it and the Jade allowed the temperature of the oil to drop to approximately 340 degrees after two minutes has passed.

TEST STIR-FRYING IN A WOK -- [...] And sure enough, the Blue Star yielded the best, most restaurant-worthy stir-fried bok choy. For starters, the wok became incredibly hot; I couldn't even wait the full three minutes for it to heat up before the showroom filled with smoke. The bok choy emerged with golden-brown spots over about 65 percent of its surface and a remarkable "taste of the wok." DCS, which offers a porcelainized cast-iron wok ring, finished in second place again; this bok choy was browned over 30 percent of its surface, with darker spots, and had a less authentic restaurant flavor.

If in fact Capital's and DCS's burners are as similar as they appear, I'd say that BlueStar's 22k burner is equal, if not superior, to Capital's 25k wok burner.

Of course, the proof is in the pudding umm.. wok hay!

[joancassell]

Well, I've had some problems with my Blue Star 30" range. I still love it, but I can't say the folks at Blue Star have been responsive or, in fact, anything but dismissive when I asked for help. I couldn't adjust the simmer burner to turn down the heat; seems I needed a new burner handle; the one the burner came with was defective. The oven door kept sticking and I had to yank it open with both hands -- a nuisance when I was involved in roasting or baking. I had just moved into a new house with many problems associated with it, and by the time I got to the oven door, it was out of warranty. The door was now completely out of whack from all that yanking open and needed a new door lining, which I had to order from the distributor - the Blue Star people barely managed to say "call the distributor" -- showing complete disinterest in my predicament. Then the sparker on one burner went; I phoned the distributor (by this time I knew them only too well) and now that works.

It's a lovely stove, cooks beautifully, but the quality control -- at least on the one I got -- is less than perfect, and the consumer relations of the Blue Star people s.. (well, lets say) stinks.

Since I'm not mechanical, each problem involved a call to a repairman, scheduling, ordering the part, rescheduling, paying the repairman.

Would I buy one again? Yes, I probably would. But I'd keep the distributor's name and contact information close, and make sure to have EVERYTHING wrong repaired within that first year, when it's still under warranty.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Most of my non-heavy-duty-cook friends are getting Monograms in their new kitchens. The ones I've seen and worked with are very nice, and they've been happy with them. Their decision-making was less "Viking/Wolf/Monogram" and more "Dacor/JennAir/Frigidaire/Monogram."

[greenwich st]

This is what I love about EG -- I had just begun to think hey, what about Capital, and I find my thought process playing out right here several steps ahead. So, Joe Blowe, what do you think of Capital's wide burners from the opposite point of view: the simmer function? I've seen some suggestion that the small diameter of the simmer flame could lead to hot spots. And thanks, joancassell for your cautionary tale: sounds like what we experienced with Thermador (and I'm impressed that you still love the range.)

I have to admit I coveted the Monogram mostly for its beauty. And there is always the potential resale factor: what if we sell and a buyer doesn't "get" the stove. Part of the appeal of the Capital is that it may combine features of both: good looks and the ultra-high and -low output of the Bluestar and lits large oven capacity. I also like the Capital 's advertised simmer function on four burners, and smooth-sliding oven racks . Unfortunately, it's very hard to check one out in person. Hmm...

[bigcat39]

So, Fabby, what are YOU putting in? Rangewise, I mean....

[greenwich st]

Just to obsess a bit more about the Capital: I am wondering about the wok cooktop configuration. I never stir fry in a wok and though owning such a stove may inspire me, I'm mainly interesting in being able to sear meat and to quickly boil and deglaze. The Bluestar offers two 22K burners as opposed to the Capital's four 19K burners. The Capital counters with the 25K central wok burner. Presumably one can use that wok burner for other functions, but doesn't the protruding skillet handle render one or two other burners unusable? And is there enough room on that cooktop for a big central pan, plus two other large pans, say, on the periphery? I'd love to be able to bring my pans and check it out in person somewhere.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

So, Fabby, what are YOU putting in? Rangewise, I mean....

←

A 60" Bluestar.

[forno]

Hello,

We are re-doing our kitchen, and have room for a 48" freestanding range. I would have preferred a 36" cooktop and double wall oven, but the layout doesn't work. Oh well.

Our first choice is the Wolf, where I like the two-level burners that go very high and very low. Still, Wolf is pretty expensive.

We are also considering the new American Range residential 48" oven. Fully sealed burners, two fully functional ovens, high quality stainless. And they are less expensive. It seems like the are very nice ovens, priced to get the company going in the high end residential market.

Does anyone have input on this? The Wolf would be a safe, but pricey choice, but I am open to considering the American Range is some of you are having a good experience with it. We will be ordering 6 burners and a 12" built-in stainless griddle.

Thanks for input!

Forno

[Joe Blowe]

Be sure to take a look at this report (also reprinted here)-- while it doesn't cover the names you're looking at, it does give some tips on what to look for, and may add another choice to the mix

[forno]

Thanks for that. Very helpful. I have a friend with a Blue Star -- she likes it and recommends it, so I should add that to the list. Someone else mentioned that crumbs can clog the burner opening because they point straight up, not a little to the side. I need to check into that.

The Blue Star price falls in the middle; more than American Ranges and less than Wolf.

I think both the Wolf and AR have been introduced since that article.

Forno

[manton]

Hi. First post.

About three years ago, I redid the kitchen. Got a Viking. I had two reasons, after having done a lot of research.

First, I liked the fact that all six Viking burners can do a low simmer. The other brands I looked at mostly had one burner that could do the low simmer, and the rest just a conventional low.

Second, the wife was pretty insistent on "no stainless". At that time, Viking was the only widely available pro-style range that offered enamel colors.

So Viking it was.

Well, I have never been entirely happy. The simmer is indeed on all the burners, but it is far from easy to maintain. The setting is BEFORE high, and keeping it at a low simmer and ON is very difficult. And, in the end, I find that I don't really need six simmers.

I also opted for sealed burners, which I think was a major mistake.

But these are not my real complaints. I am unhappy with the oven. For one thing, it smokes like a coal plant. Roast or broil anything, and you need a gas mask to open the door.

Is that normal?

My mother got a Viking after me (48" in her case, whereas mine is 36") and her oven does not do that. Is it possible mine was improperly installed? I have a decent hood over the burners, but so far as I know the oven is not itself vented. Should it be?

My oven also needs to be cleaned every two months or so. Mom's has not been cleaned in a year, and still looks almost new. What gives?

The oven temperature is also impossible to judge. The dial is so squirrely -- the play is easily 75 degrees, maybe more -- that I have no idea what setting it is at. The Viking people say, "Turn all the way past, then come back, and that is the right temp." Well, if that is true, the dial is still a joke. For instance, when on broil, you can turn all the way past until the light clicks off, but to get it to come back on, you go back well beyond broil. The light really does not come on until about 475. Does that mean that all the temps up to 550 and "Broil" itself simply don't exist for this oven?

As a final note I will say that the iron grates are essentially impossible to clean. Once a drop of grease hits them, it becomes for all intents and purposes part of the geological record. Maybe someday another civilization will burn it as a fossil fuel!

Is there anything I can do about any of this?

Thanks for reading. Look forward to any help and/or commiseration.

[scubadoo97]

I have a Viking pro 6 burner range top and opted for Viking for the same reasons you did. All burners have the same range from high to lowest simmer. I have not had much trouble maintaining a low simmer unless when the AC is blowing down near the rangetop and the air nearly blows out the flame at the lowest possible level. The only part of the sealed burner that I can't get clean is the metal ring around the burner. Just can't get it clean without brillo which is not recommended but what the hell.

[pax]

I put the metal things...not the rings but the actual metal trivet type things that are over the flames..into the oven when I put it on the self clean cycle. Burns everything right off. Hat tip to Old Ironstomach for that tip.

[budrichard]

"But these are not my real complaints. I am unhappy with the oven. For one thing, it smokes like a coal plant. Roast or broil anything, and you need a gas mask to open the door."

Something is wrong with your installation. At the rear of the oven should be a small vent running across the entire back. With the convection fan on you should feel air flow, without convection it is natural circulation.

Simmer is problamatic and needs the right touch of anticipation.

Any oven temperature control and oven heating is somewhat unique to each oven and you need to learn how yours responds, suggest oven thermometer until you are confident.

Grates are as you say but will outlast the geological record. After 15 years, mine are still going as is the entire range.-Dick

[manton]

Something is wrong with your installation. At the rear of the oven should be a small vent running across the entire back. With the convection fan on you should feel air flow, without convection it is natural circulation.

Thanks. This is what I hoped/feared. I hope it is fixable. I need to call about this.

Thanks again.

[manton]

Well, the repair man came. Good news: he fixed the super jiggly oven temperature dial. I think it now reasonably approximates what is going on in the oven.

Bad/good news: the oven was not installed improperly. It just smokes like crazy. I have to run self-clean a lot more often. Say, once a month. I broil and roast too much, and the splatter is what smokes.

Also, there is a chance that when the oven temp dial was so bad, the oven was always hotter than I wanted it, and that was exacerbating the problem. Hopefully, it will get better now.

Anyway, with an accurate oven temp dial, I am loving the range quite a bit more. I still wish I had gotten open burners, though.

Edited December 3, 2008 by manton (log)

[JohnnyH]

Can the installation problem be fixed?

[manton]

Can the installation problem be fixed?

←

According to the repair man, there is no problem. The range was installed correctly. It vents out the back like it is supposed to.

Edited December 3, 2008 by manton (log)

[budrichard]

My Viking is not self cleaning and we clean it about every two years, no problems.

Is your hood vented to the outside or one of those filter type units that vents back into the kitchen? Venting to the outside is required not only for odors/smoke but heat removal.

I still say something is wrong someplace if your oven smokes all the time into your kitchen?-Dick