The Supreme eG Pastry and Baking Challenge (Round 1)

[Rebecca263]

Don't "they" say that the enzymes in fresh pineapple can deter gelatins from setting up? Maybe this has something to do with your problems tonight?

I'm glad that you can save that cake from oblivion, though. I kind of look forward to disasters, myself, more to binge on for me!

[Ling]

^Yes, I've read that as well. But this is a recipe from the Eurodelices pastry book (recipes contributed by many top international pastry chefs), so I was hoping it would work.

[Rebecca263]

I hope the idea is fixable. I like the idea of licking a bowl full of mousse bits.

[Shalmanese]

You're just not going to be able to get the density of flavour with fresh pineapple at this time of the year, especially in vancouver. You could try just a touch of citric acid to amp it up a little bit but, IMHO, your best bet now is to use frozen pineapple concentrate.

[FistFullaRoux]

What about a panel of judges is selected or volunteer themselves for a live tasting at the end of this event... but who's baking the final recipes and the how's of getting them to the one place would need to be worked out.  And of course, the rest of us must get to participate in the tasting/judging vicariously through lots of photos.

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Hmm...I don't think this is quite fair, because the desserts all contain different ingredients. And it is definitely easier to make a tasty dessert with, say, chocolate, than it is with, I dunno...Red Delicious apples.

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Plus, if we are talking seasonal ingredients, there is a problem there. And I'm sorry, I like you guys, but I couldn't get on a plane on my dime to fly somewhere to make pastry.

Unless we could get Food Network to foot the bill and produce a 1 hour special...

edited for typos

Edited September 29, 2006 by FistFullaRoux (log)

[Kerry Beal]

OK I'm finished my work now...the mousse has been in the fridge for a total of 8 hours, and it did not set up properly. It is still like cream...damn! I used 3 packages of gelatin for a mousse that included 1 2/3 cups of whipping cream and 1 cup of milk, plus some cornstarch and pineapple, sugar, egg yolk, and liqueur.

The other little individual mousse thing I made went into the freezer, along with the mega huge mousse bombe. The mousse has frozen really hard (there was gelatin in the recipe) and still tastes bland and boring. Dammit! So the bombe was a bomb. Haha, I made a funny...trying to keep a sense of humour here, but I really hate failing!

They're ugly things...not worth the photos. 

(BTW--the caramel sponge cake is still good. I'm scooping them out of my mousse and eating it.)

I think I'm going to have to cook the pineapple in the recipe somehow...maybe make a pineapple caramel sauce or something. I'll buy another pineapple tomorrow and see if it ripens by Monday.

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I suspect you already know this, but for anyone out there who doesn't, you have to cook the pineapple if you are going to get the gelatin to set. Raw pineapple contains an enzyme that interferes with gelatin.

Edited September 29, 2006 by Kerry Beal (log)

[ludja]

...

I think I'm going to have to cook the pineapple in the recipe somehow...maybe make a pineapple caramel sauce or something. I'll buy another pineapple tomorrow and see if it ripens by Monday.

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I suspect you already know this, but for anyone out there who doesn't, you have to cook the pineapple if you are going to get the gelatin to set. Raw pineapple contains an enzyme that interferes with gelatin.

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Sorry for the disappointments, Ling...

Here is some other pineapple/gelatin information: click

Canned pineapple is entirely satisfactory since the enzyme is eliminated by the heat in the canning process. Canned and frozen reconstituted pineapple juice may be used as the cold liquid as well.

[LittleIsland]

Hmm...I don't think this is quite fair, because the desserts all contain different ingredients. And it is definitely easier to make a tasty dessert with, say, chocolate, than it is with, I dunno...Red Delicious apples.

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True, true. But, as with Iron Chef, taste won't be everything you'd be judged upon - e.g. how well the updated dessert has stayed true to the essential original elements, etc.

And, admittedly it was a throwaway suggestion... without thinking through all the logistics

[Swisskaese]

Ling, I am sorry about the problem with the pineapple, but I have a solution. Make the mousse with homemade pineapple syrup.

Pineapple syrup

Do you have a store in Vancouver that sells spices and dried fruits? I buy sundried pineapple slices here. They are not the sickeningly sweet dried pineapples. These are not sugared, they are air dried, but still tender and they are delicious.

As for the cherries, you can also buy top quality canned or jarred sour cherries and confit those.

[miladyinsanity]

What recipe did you use for the caramel sponge, Ling? Or did you just substitute brown sugar for white in your regular recipe?

How about going to Chinatown and buying pineapple jam for the pineapple?

[Ling]

^I have not heard of pineapple jam, pineapple syrup, or pineapple concentrate (which I'm assuming is not concentrated pineapple juice)! Thanks for the leads...I'm going to try to find at least one of these things today.

Kerry and ludja: I've just read in passing about the enzyme in pineapple and didn't know it could be remedied by cooking the pineapple. I wonder why that recipe called for 1 lb. of diced, fresh pineapple, then? Clearly that would not have worked. Ah well...thanks for teaching me something new.

miladyinsanity: I made another sponge jelly roll with less baking soda, and then made caramel sauce (sugar, whipping cream, butter, pinch of salt, touch of rum). I let the sauce cool, then spread it on the plain sponge and rolled it up, then let it set.

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OK so new ideas...I was thinking of doing a ginger or spice cake roll with caramel sauce. That would be nice with the pineapple, I think. And it would add a bit more flavour to my less-than-ideal pineapple situation.

Another idea I had this morning was doing a mille crepe thing like many posters did during the EG cookoff. Only, I'd do a spice mille crepe with the caramel pineapple in between the layers. I would probably slice the pineapple in long strips, rather than in chunks, so they wouldn't slip out of the layers....maybe some sort of tangy marscapone topping as well.

Thoughts?

I'll make the brown sugar ice-cream this afternoon and post a picture in the evening. I have some leftover caramel sauce from breakfast too (I made brioche french toast again... ) so I can spoon some over the brown sugar ice-cream.

ETA: Thanks, phlawless, for the bacon idea. I have used duck fat in pastry before and think bacon fat in tart dough would behave in about the same way. I also have some leaf lard a friend on EG sent me...so perhaps if I did a tart, I could use half leaf lard and half bacon fat...straight bacon fat might be too smoky?

Edited September 29, 2006 by Ling (log)

[Pan]

^I have not heard of pineapple jam, pineapple syrup, or pineapple concentrate (which I'm assuming is not concentrated pineapple juice)![...]

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We must have grown up in different circles. Various companies make pineapple jam - the usual suspects like Polaner and Smuckers among them. I used to eat a lot of it on bread with or without peanut butter.

[prasantrin]

We must have grown up in different circles. Various companies make pineapple jam - the usual suspects like Polaner and Smuckers among them. I used to eat a lot of it on bread with or without peanut butter.

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Pineapple jam is not readily available in Canada, which would account for Ling not having heard of it. I've never looked for pinapple jam in the US, so I haven't noticed if it's easily found there, but the only places I've ever seen it have been SEAsian countries. (Canada doesn't get much grape jelly, either, and I remember feeling very envious of those kids on Smucker's grape jelly commericals.)

[Kouign Aman]

I like the thought of the jelly roll slices being arranged in a pan, so that the final product has them on top, referencing the pineapple rings of the original.

How about:

carmelizing canned pineapple (the sort in its own juice), since fresh is not at its best, then using that in the mousse? Munched up, it would give the flavor, and the chewy fruity bits. Might be necessary to add some butter & brown sugar to the carmelizing process, if the pineapple doesnt have enough sugar on its own.

This would be with as tart a pineapple mousse as you could manage to create, so there is lots of contrast between the very sweet carmelized bits and the main filling.

Use Trader Joe's sour Morello cherries for an accent -

perhaps the very inner part of the roll filling could be a sour cherry mousse, (that first tight little circle in the center of the spiral), then the rest be the carmelized pineapple mousse.

Fill the lined pan with more of the pineapple mousse.

The carmelly cake for the bottom layer, to seal it all in.

I have no idea how one would successfully unmold such a thing!

Edited September 29, 2006 by Kouign Aman (log)

[Pam R]

Ling - sorry if I missed it somewhere up-topic - but can you not get good pineapple right now? I've been served pineapple 3 times in the last week and they've all been amazing ... like REALLY amazing.

[Ling]

Pam--I bought another pineapple today, this one is a golden pineapple from Dole and it was almost twice the price of the Del Monte pineapple I got yesterday. However, this one has more fragrance so I'm pretty sure it'll be better!

I also got some cherry preserves at the store so the ice-cream will be brown sugar cherry ice-cream.

I'll reply to the other posts soon...cooking dinner right now.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Ling (log)

[chefpeon]

Ok, I've been following this thread.

Don't call me a spoil sport, but I have some questions!

If this is a challenge for an individual (aka Iron Chef), then how are the merits of the individual showcased when they are allowed to accept ideas and suggestions from the crowd? It makes it more of a challenge for a group of people rather than the individual, wouldn't you agree? I see Lorna going all over the place with ideas as they pour in, and her original ideas have totally morphed into something completely different as the thread has progressed. Wasn't the point of Kerry's challenge to see what LORNA would come up with, out of her own mind and creative spirit? I think she's almost to the point of second guessing herself.

Since this is the FIRST eG Iron Baker challenge this will be the one to work the bugs out, and figure out what the rules should be. But I think the question I've posed is something to consider....yes?

[Ling]

When Kerry first PMed me with the idea, I didn't know it was going to be a competition...I thought of it more as a challenge. It think when people see the words "Iron Baker", the automatically associate it with the show and therefore think there should be competitors, etc.

I guess it doesn't matter either way, but I would prefer it if were more of a challenge rather than an all-out competition, since I don't see how a competition like this can be worked out with everyone agreeing on the rules. Also, the difference in ingredient quality and ingredient one baker can get in his/her hometown would differ greatly from a baker on the other side of the world...so I don't see how that would work out fairly.

The brown sugar and cherry ice-cream turned out great. The original recipe doesn't call for any eggs or yolks, which was a bit unusual, so we did add some yolks.

The original recipe calls for:

-2 cups heavy cream

-3/4 cup milk

-1/2 cup brown sugar

To this, we added:

-1 vanilla bean

-1 tbsp brandy

-4 yolks (tempered with the hot cream mixture)

We then cooled it down, and made the ice-cream. When it was almost done churning, we added:

-1 cup (reduced sugar) cherry preserves

I'll post a picture tomorrow when the sun is out and I can get a better photo.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Ling (log)

[chefpeon]

Also, the difference in ingredient quality and ingredient one baker can get in his/her hometown would differ greatly from a baker on the other side of the world...so I don't see how that would work out fairly.

Well, it can't be a competition really......since taste is most of it, and we all can't taste what is being made. And what you mentioned there is sort of my point.....when a challenge is issued to an individual, the individual should come up with their ideas using their own creative resources and available items in their respective locales.

[chiantiglace]

agreed

[Irishgirl]

Just to add fuel to the fire.....

Personally, I would poach the pineapple in caramelized pineapple juice that has a shot of rum and a vanilla bean in it....and just to gild the lily, some butter, cause butter makes everything better.

The jelly roll idea, I would keep, but create a brown sugar mousse or brown butter mousse to fill it with. I would make the cake quite thin like a genoise, and when it is rolled, slice it so that can be stood up like a cylinder. Poached pineapple and liquid (reduced) on top. Top with cherry ice cream and pecan brittle. Rum anglaise.

Sorry Ling....had to do it.

[miladyinsanity]

If you don't have pineapple jam...

I've Flo Braker's Sweet Miniatures with me, and for a recipe called Pineapple Pockets, she makes a pineapple filling by:

Caramelizing 65g of sugar with 2 tbsp water, then adding 8 ounces of canned, crushed pineapple. She cooks this for 4 minutes more on high heat, or until it turns golden and syrupy. Then she stirs in 7g of butter and lets it cool.

[Kouign Aman]

I thought about this overnight, and woke up thinking:

caramel mousse not pineapple mousse. Keep the sticky sweet carmelizedpineapple bits in it.

Make the pan not too deep as the mousse shouldnt overpower the dessert.

But, since you've got that delicious icecream, it could become a jellyroll topped icecream bombe....

I think the flying ideas on this thread are similar to Ling's consulting a dozen or more cookbooks for inspiration.

[Ling]

I appreciate all the good ideas. They definitely help. But still waiting for Kerry for her decision on the challenge/contest.

[Pam R]

The title says Challenge. Plus, the wonderful thing about this is people are contributing from all over the world - and potentially there will be other participants from all over the world. In my mind, to have a contest there would have to be some way of tasting and comparing items - which can't happen here.

This is really fun - and I like the way it's playing out. My vote is that it continues as it's been going. Kerry?