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Posted
Is that the Canlis in Seattle? At number 19?!!

Yep, it is.

I haven't been to ONE of these places :sad:. Silly (because I know their wonderfulness is arguable), but that actually bothers me a little.

I have to say that there is no way Canlis should be on this list! Just seeing it there I can tell that the list is combined for the average american who has bucks in his wallet and is easily impressed and likes to name drop- IMHO of course.

I've been to quite a few on the list and am also surprised by those left off. Definately politics.

Posted

I'm sorry to say that although my heart pines for the Pacific Northwest, I can't put any of the entries I've visited - Canlis, Paley's, Higgins or Juanita - into a top 50. Although I'm amazed they didn't put Seattle's Mistral on the list.

But I admire Gourmet's attempt to broaden the landscape beyond the big 3 cities.

And congratulations to Alinea, both for the #1 spot and for making a meal I can remember each bite of, 1 year and 17 days later. I tried making Adria's anti-ravioli and fruit caviar this week and although the mystery is now gone, I'm still floored at what they're doing every day. Boston misses you, Chef Stupak!

Posted

Does Gourmet Magazine do this every year? From past subscriptions I've only noticed their "Restaurant Edition" that came in once in a while (probably yearly?).

"cuisine is the greatest form of art to touch a human's instinct" - chairman kaga

Posted

And although I like Chapel Hill's Lantern -- a lot -- to even begin to think it's anywhere close to being one of the top 50, 100 or 150 restaurants in the country is insane. Nevertheless, I'm happy for the restaurant.

Dean McCord

VarmintBites

Posted
Does Gourmet Magazine do this every year? From past subscriptions I've only noticed their "Restaurant Edition" that came in once in a while (probably yearly?).

Every five years.

=R=

"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

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Posted (edited)
...It looks like they were trying to spread the love a bit, trying not to have it even more dominated by the big food cities.

Extra's observation is clear to me, too. While I haven't seen many of Gourmet's lists, it does seem as if choices were made to encourage readers from all around the country that they are not too far from one of the greatest (and hate the word, but it's relevant here:) hottest places to dine, including those outside the continental United States. Better make reservations and catch them while they're still this good and the chefs this young.

This fact also makes the NYC-based magazine look as if it's not self-absorbed, especially given its ranking of Alinea. The reprinting of the list from 2001 reinforces the value that seems to be placed on geographic diversity.

What about diversity of cuisines, though? When Ruth Reichl answered questions posed by eG members, she asserted her belief that restaurants serving truly wonderful Asian food are not given their due.

...I've come to the conclusion that they're not even meant to be taken seriously. They're purely commercial efforts...

Would it be possible to elaborate?

* * *

As someone who rarely goes to restaurants, I have a somewhat related question about the experience of going to Alinea or another highly rated restaurant that gains respect for tasting menus.

I understand the service at French Laundry is praised highly. I realize that most of us would go to one of these highly tauted, expensive restaurants to focus on the food and not for the sake of catching up with friends or delving further into the implications of Pascal's Wager.

However, I find it difficult enough when servers come back over and over again to find out whether they can take away the plate with just a little bit of this or that on it ("NO! Wait until ALL the cheese and basil oil is gone and we wipe the plate clean with our bread, please!"). I would think that with a long succession of dishes gone in one or two bites, you and your party spend most of the evening in the company of the restaurant's staff. I don't think I would enjoy that as much as I would enjoy lingering over three or four courses. Such a preference would affect how I would rank the restaurant.

Edited by Pontormo (log)

"Viciousness in the kitchen.

The potatoes hiss." --Sylvia Plath

Posted
...I've come to the conclusion that they're not even meant to be taken seriously. They're purely commercial efforts...

Would it be possible to elaborate?

It's about selling magazines and sending messages, not about what anybody actually thinks is the list of best restaurants. Publishers and editors know that ratings, rankings and awards sell copies. Even though nobody at Gourmet could possibly take the idea of this sort of list seriously, or expect serious observers to, they push ahead with it because it helps their circulation numbers and gets them attention (as here). In addition, when making the list, they're clearly taking into consideration many issues that have nothing to do with food quality. They're trying to assemble a list that's geographically diverse and also gives props to the various favorite chefs and restaurateurs of the people who make the list. But the reality is that, unlike in a nation like France, the great restaurants of the US are indeed concentrated in and around a few big cities. Being a great restaurant in New York, however, works against you if you're on this list.

I too noticed the rather thin presence of Asian restaurants, especially Japanese. I can understand not including many Chinese places, because we really don't seem to have world-class Chinese restaurants in the US, however we have quite a few great Japanese ones. To include only Masa and nee Masa on the list seems wrong.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

Posted (edited)
Is that the Canlis in Seattle? At number 19?!!

Yep, it is.

I haven't been to ONE of these places :sad:. Silly (because I know their wonderfulness is arguable), but that actually bothers me a little.

I have to say that there is no way Canlis should be on this list! Just seeing it there I can tell that the list is combined for the average american who has bucks in his wallet and is easily impressed and likes to name drop- IMHO of course.

Having not been to Canlis, I find it interesting that this restaurant's ranking (or existence) on the list has raised the most eyebrows thus far... and it climbed from 2001.

I've been to quite a few on the list and am also surprised by those left off. Definately politics.

I've been to 8/50 (9/51 if you count Per Se and TFL as two separate ones). While I'm sure Fat Guy (and everyone else who's said it) is right - that it boils down to commercialism and "politics," I'd be curious to find out who/what "pulls the strings," so to speak. also, I'd be interested in knowing who at the magazine (other than Ms. Reichl) was eating their way through the candidates.

I certainly was deflated in reading the list. Unlike others, I was surprised to see Le Bernardin placed so high - as well as Daniel. I was equally surprised and disappointed to see Jean Georges and Manresa so low. I was pleasantly surprised to see Alan Wong's staying so high, and Chez Panisse. Although I haven't been to Spago, my gut reaction was: "No. 4!!??" :huh: I'll hold comment on Alinea.

u.e.

[edited to add: I looked through the 2001 list and noticed that I had been to more on that list than this year's list...]

Edited by ulterior epicure (log)

“Watermelon - it’s a good fruit. You eat, you drink, you wash your face.”

Italian tenor Enrico Caruso (1873-1921)

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Posted (edited)
To include only Masa and nee Masa on the list seems wrong.

I believe Urasawa was on the list.

Urasawa is "nee Masa"--it's Masa Takayama's old restaurant, taken over by his former sous chef.

And put me down as another chauvanistic New Yorker who thinks Alinea's #1 ranking is the only redeeming aspect of this otherwise worthless joke of a list.

Edited by Dave H (log)
Posted

My wife and I ate at Le Reve Thursday nite and were debating if Gramercy or Le Reve was better--Gourmet seemed to break the tie Saturday morning. I don't know how you judge between two like that.

Cooking is chemistry, baking is alchemy.

Posted (edited)

It is all rather subjective isn't it? Certain restaurants are going to make it because they are considered old standbys which are loved by the dining public, like Le Bernardin. Alinea has done nothing but get rave reviews since it opened, so it is no surprise that it is on there, but to enter the list at #1 is really something.

Personally I would not ever eat in a Wolfgang Puck restaurant again. Ate in a California Pizza Kitchen when it first came was in Columbus and it did nothing for me.

Edited by kristin_71 (log)
Posted
Personally I would not ever eat in a Wolfgang Puck restaurant  again. Ate in a California Pizza Kitchen when it first came was in Columbus and it did nothing for me.

kristin_71, CPK is not a Wolfgang Puck restaurant. CPK was founded in 1985 by Larry Flax and Rick Rosenfield. Here's the link to CPK.

I had dinner at Spago's a few months ago and it was one of the best meals I had this year. After almost twenty-five years, Spago's is not just resting on its laurels, with new talents like Lee Hefter & Sherry Yard. Same goes for Chez Panisse, it's still on top of its game ("fresh, local, seasonal produce, simply prepared ... that's California cuisine).

What struck me first from this list is that the top five restaurants (excluding Per Se) are not from ... New York, New York. Is this Gourmet's way of showing us non-NYNY diners that the New York-based food magazine is not so self-absorbed with its NYC restaurants??

Russell J. Wong aka "rjwong"

Food and I, we go way back ...

Posted

Maybe it's just my DC bias, but Maestro and Il Labritoro Galileo should be on that list. I have eaten at 6/50 and would rate either of these two DC places as good as or better than 3 of them.

Spago at #4 is insane. I ate there last summer with a friend from LA and not only was the food average, it seemed like I was the only person there eating and not sitting around tyring to look good. Lots of people picking at their food and using cell phones.

The European published Restaurant Magazine has a "Top 50 In The World List:"

http://www.theworlds50best.com/bestlist.aspx

I don't have much international dining expierience, so I can't really condem or support the list. Anyoneout there who has eaten at any of these places care to comment?

Gramercy Tavern seemed and odd choice to be on there.

Posted
Spago at #4 is insane. I ate there last summer with a friend from LA and not only was the food average, it seemed like I was the only person there eating and not sitting around tyring to look good. Lots of people picking at their food and using cell phones.
While I've not been to Spago, I would have to say that I don't think the type of clientele has anything (or shouldn't have anything) to do with the quality of the food or the service. As most of the people on this site who dine frequently in high-end restaurants know, the type of establishments that make it onto lists like this are hotbeds for expense accounts and obscene displays of wealth - not people who truly appreciate the artistry and value of the chef/restaurateur. You can have all the money in the world, but you can't buy good taste. :wink:
The European published Restaurant Magazine has a "Top 50 In The World List:"

http://www.theworlds50best.com/bestlist.aspx

I don't have much international dining expierience, so I can't really condem or support the list. Anyoneout there who has eaten at any of these places care to comment?

You know, it's strange, I just took a look at that list and I've been to more on the international list (12/50) than on the U.S. list (8/50). I don't quite agree with some of the rankings - but I certainly don't see any that don't deserve to be on the list. I will note, however, that it is interesting that Alinea didn't show...

“Watermelon - it’s a good fruit. You eat, you drink, you wash your face.”

Italian tenor Enrico Caruso (1873-1921)

ulteriorepicure.com

My flickr account

ulteriorepicure@gmail.com

Posted

There is no way in any shape or form that Nobu London, Rockpool, St john,Bocuse Hakkasan or the Gramercy tavern should be on the list of 50 best in the world.

It just goes to show these "lists" end up being Myopic exercises in politics and geography.

There are so many more deserving places than those.

I would completely agree that Achatz's food, while I havent had it, upon detailed analysis is far more ambitious than the Fat duck's. The world's 50 best has a british slant and that is why Nobu london, Hakkasan and St john make it................and frankly makes the list absurd.

No bu london is in no way better than Nobu tribeca or matsuhisa LA ??????

Posted

Just to reiterate Fat Guy's point,

IT IS A MARKETING THING!!!

I've been in the mag. pub. business for 30+ years and in almost every editorial meeting of every magazine client I have had I beg for LISTS (the 10 best shortstops, the 5 most popular cars, the 100 best album covers, etc.).

And evertime I get one, I sell more copies than prior issues w/o lists.

To illustrate this further: the only issue of Food & Wine I buy on the newsstand each year is the "best new chefs issue; my favorite issue of ANY mag each year is the Saveur 100 issue.

The reality is no matter what 50 restos were listed, people are going to disagree with the list(but they are going to read the list). That's when we magazine folk say:

"Gotcha"

So have some fun with it, but don't take it too seriously(there'll be another list in 5 years).

"the only thing we knew for sure about henry porter was that his name wasn't henry porter" : bob

Posted
Just to reiterate Fat Guy's point,

IT IS A MARKETING THING!!!

I've been in the mag. pub. business for 30+ years and in almost every editorial meeting of every magazine client I have had I beg for LISTS (the 10 best shortstops, the 5 most popular cars, the 100 best album covers, etc.). 

And evertime I get one, I sell more copies than prior issues w/o lists.

To illustrate this further:  the only issue of Food & Wine I buy on the newsstand each year is the "best new chefs issue;  my favorite issue of ANY mag each year is the Saveur 100 issue. 

The reality is no matter what 50 restos were listed, people are going to disagree with the list(but they are going to read the list).  That's when we magazine folk say:

"Gotcha"

So have some fun with it, but don't take it too seriously(there'll be another list in 5 years).

Historical question: Can we pinpoint when this phenomenon began?

I do know that the annual "Best of Philly" issue of Philadelphia magazine just produced its 34th iteration last August. It started as a total lark on the part of the magazine's staff, and it included a list of "worsts" that allowed the writers to throw well-deserved darts at notorious local figures and institutions.

By the time it turned 10 in 1984, the judging process had already acquired an air of High Seriousness about it, and the magazine's publisher, in his front-of-every-issue rantspace "Off the Cuff," went to great pains to state that it was impossible to buy one's way into the list.

And yet places that just about any Philadelphian will tell you remain among the best today (Taconnelli's for pizza, Tony Luke's for their roast pork sandwich) do not consistently appear in their respective categories. That's in part because some of them have been "retired", but "distributive justice" must have something to do with it too.

On a national scale, this is a big country with lots of large cities that would be centers of national culture in their own right in many smaller nations. It sort of follows, then, that an editor of a national magazine, no matter where it is based, would risk alienating a large slice of his potential readership if he selected a "best of" list that was lacking in geographical diversity, even if it was more accurate in terms of true quality.

Sandy Smith, Exile on Oxford Circle, Philadelphia

"95% of success in life is showing up." --Woody Allen

My foodblogs: 1 | 2 | 3

Posted
Spago at #4 is insane. I ate there last summer with a friend from LA and not only was the food average, it seemed like I was the only person there eating and not sitting around tyring to look good. Lots of people picking at their food and using cell phones.
While I've not been to Spago, I would have to say that I don't think the type of clientele has anything (or shouldn't have anything) to do with the quality of the food or the service. As most of the people on this site who dine frequently in high-end restaurants know, the type of establishments that make it onto lists like this are hotbeds for expense accounts and obscene displays of wealth - not people who truly appreciate the artistry and value of the chef/restaurateur. You can have all the money in the world, but you can't buy good taste. :wink:
The European published Restaurant Magazine has a "Top 50 In The World List:"

http://www.theworlds50best.com/bestlist.aspx

I don't have much international dining expierience, so I can't really condem or support the list. Anyoneout there who has eaten at any of these places care to comment?

You know, it's strange, I just took a look at that list and I've been to more on the international list (12/50) than on the U.S. list (8/50). I don't quite agree with some of the rankings - but I certainly don't see any that don't deserve to be on the list. I will note, however, that it is interesting that Alinea didn't show...

I have eaten in several of the restaurants listed in the "top 50 in the world" and I think that "Alinea" deserves to be there. Achatz is as dazzling as it gets. However, it is in Chicago and geography plays a big part in these ratings. It is a very strange list. I think they were trying to be very democratic and geographically inclusive, while avoiding being labeled as elitist.

As it has been observed by several posters, ratings are a very strange beast. No Ducasse? Even if you do not like him, he is a master and it is always an experience to eat there. Also "Tru" is missing (although my last visit there in July was a complete disappointment after many great dinners there).

I would like to point out a little matter that caught my attention. Is anyone surprised that Cantu is on the cover and the leading title is "America's leading Restaurant"? I thought that "Moto" had been selected number one upon seeing the cover (and I was not the only one).

Posted (edited)
I have eaten in several of the restaurants listed in the "top 50 in the world" and I think that "Alinea" deserves to be there.  Achatz is as dazzling as it gets.
I've eaten at Alinea, and while I find the food and Achatz "dazzling," my experiences have not been that appealing - from the service to the tastes. But, I do agree and recognize that the work Achatz is doing is very different and should be acknowledged on the international level.
Also "Tru" is missing (although my last visit there in July was a complete disappointment after many great dinners there).
Personally, I'd be pretty shocked to see TRU on the list. My one meal there was pretty good - service was excellent, but certainly not in the league of many of the other Top 50 in the World players that I've been to.
I would like to point out a little matter that caught my attention.  Is anyone surprised that Cantu is on the cover and the leading title is "America's leading Restaurant"?  I thought that "Moto" had been selected number one upon seeing the cover (and I was not  the only one).
I'm TOTALLY with you on this one... while maybe not number one, I do think that Moto deserves to be on the U.S. list.

Again, as many others have noted on this thread and others - it's all marketing.

u.e.

[edited to insert "not" in between "have" and "been" above (bolded)]

Edited by ulterior epicure (log)

“Watermelon - it’s a good fruit. You eat, you drink, you wash your face.”

Italian tenor Enrico Caruso (1873-1921)

ulteriorepicure.com

My flickr account

ulteriorepicure@gmail.com

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