Baking 101

[NYC Mike]

Thanks Sugarella and CB!

Well, the top is browning but only appropriately so while the sides and the bottom are too dark/near burnt.

In the case today I was using this pan .  Think it might be the culprit?

I'll also raise the rack and try a baking sheet.

-Mike

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Yep, 'fraid so. Logically, the top should brown first because that's the only part exposed to air and is in contact with the direct heat from the oven, right? Double thick non stick coating isn't so good for cakes.... those pans are great for cheesecakes baked in a water bath though, because the water regulates the temp on the sides giving you more even baking, so hang onto the pan!

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AHA! Very cool to know what it was. Can you recommend a line of springform good for cakes etc? Would the bake even strips solve the pan's problem and make it usable?

Thanks!

-Mike

Edited April 1, 2006 by NYC Mike (log)

[Sugarella]

I don't know about springform because I don't use those for regular cakes, I just use regular cake pans. You can use the springform pans if you're more comfortable with them though. I suspect some people use them because they fear the cake might stick, but proper preparation of a regular cake pan will solve that problem. Regardless, if those are the pans you already own I'd just work around their shortcomings rather than replace them. That is, unless you want to buy new pans for flour based cakes.

For regular pans, you have 2 choices, aluminum and steel. Aluminum is a great heat conductor an will help bake cakes evenly and they're cheap, but some people just don't like to cook or bake with aluminum. If you're not one of them, Magic Line is the way to go. That page I linked to is a pretty good deal actually.... 5 pans for $40, and those are 3" high which I highly recommend for cakes. Magic line is a good brand....heavy guage aluminum versus some of the flimsier brands out there which will also burns cakes. Wilton brand would be a good example of bad pans.

If you're going to get into buying stainless steel pans, you're looking at a minimum of $30 per pan. Bear in mind though, stainless steel is stainless steel...mixing bowls and cooking pots with steel handles can also be baked in, so if you've got something the right size and shape you can use that too.

As far as the bake even strips go, no, I don't think they'll solve your problem. What they do is wrap the cake pan in a moisture layer while baking, similar to the idea of a water bath but not nearly as effective, and keep the cake from baking too fast. They do help prevent doming on the top of the cake to a certain extent, but that's not your problem.

Regardless the bake even strips are just another gimmick, IMHO. Save the money. You can easily achieve the same effect as the strip with wet paper towels lining the outside of a cake pan, which don't dry out and catch fire as you might suspect. I can go into the method on that if you want.

But bake-even strips or paper towels should not really be necessary if you have a decent quality pan, your oven is calibrated properly, and you're baking at the right temperature.

[SweetSide]

I don't know about springform because I don't use those for regular cakes, I just use regular cake pans. You can use the springform pans if you're more comfortable with them though. I suspect some people use them because they fear the cake might stick, but proper preparation of a regular cake pan will solve that problem. Regardless, if those are the pans you already own I'd just work around their shortcomings rather than replace them. That is, unless you want to buy new pans for flour based cakes.

For regular pans, you have 2 choices, aluminum and steel. Aluminum is a great heat conductor an will help bake cakes evenly and they're cheap, but some people just don't like to cook or bake with aluminum. If you're not one of them, Magic Line is the way to go. That page I linked to is a pretty good deal actually.... 5 pans for $40, and those are 3" high which I highly recommend for cakes. Magic line is a good brand....heavy guage aluminum versus some of the flimsier brands out there which will also burns cakes. Wilton brand would be a good example of bad pans.

If you're going to get into buying stainless steel pans, you're looking at a minimum of $30 per pan. Bear in mind though, stainless steel is stainless steel...mixing bowls and cooking pots with steel handles can also be baked in, so if you've got something the right size and shape you can use that too.

As far as the bake even strips go, no, I don't think they'll solve your problem. What they do is wrap the cake pan in a moisture layer while baking, similar to the idea of a water bath but not nearly as effective, and keep the cake from baking too fast. They do help prevent doming on the top of the cake to a certain extent, but that's not your problem.

Regardless the bake even strips are just another gimmick, IMHO. Save the money. You can easily achieve the same effect as the strip with wet paper towels lining the outside of a cake pan, which don't dry out and catch fire as you might suspect. I can go into the method on that if you want.

But bake-even strips or paper towels should not really be necessary if you have a decent quality pan, your oven is calibrated properly, and you're baking at the right temperature.

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Amen to that! I will never EVER for the rest of my life buy another non-stick pan. I recently bought some Magic Line pans (my other pans vary, but the main ones I use are Chicago Metallic non-stick) and for the first time, every single cake comes out perfectly level, gorgeous, tender sides, etc. In every other pan I combat burnt edges and domes. Now if someone would like to throw some cash my way, I'll work on replacing all my other pans...

[NYC Mike]

Now if someone would like to throw some cash my way, I'll work on replacing all my other pans... 

Amen to that!

I only used a springform for this olive oil cake out of a magazine because it was what it called for. I am seriously using the written word as a crutch with mixed results. This was a good lesson. I am going to try with a new pan tomorrow, thanks Suga!

-Mike

Edited April 2, 2006 by NYC Mike (log)

[Wendy DeBord]

OK! Another dumb question coming up!  What can be done about over browning sides and bottoms on cakes.  This is happening to me using springforms or reg cake pans.  The tops and inside are done just right but my sides and bottoms are over done and almost burnt.

Would lowering the temp or raising the rack help?  Could I sit the cake pan on a sheet tray to offset this?  Am I leaving it in too long?

Thanks!!

-Mike

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In my opinion it's probably your oven, not your pans. It sounds like your heat isn't cirulating at all and it's running hot (off calibration). Is your heat element only on the bottom of the oven?

So I'd raise the rack your placing your cakes on (bake higher in your oven) and lower the temp of your oven (start with 25 degrees and test, then lower until it bakes evenly). You can also place items on multiple layered cool baking sheet pans (I've resorted to that before and it helps). That will help insolate your bottom and make the air vent further around the sides as it comes up from the bottom of your oven.

In my opinion over browning can happen because of the pan your using too. But it's not likely based on what you wrote (they'd increase the browning on the sides and bottom.......but not bring them to almost Burnt, as you wrote). What are your standard cake pans like? Are they dark in color or aluminum?

[NYC Mike]

Is your heat element only on the bottom of the oven?

Yes, its a gas oven and bottom only.

What are your standard cake pans like? Are they dark in color or aluminum?

The pan I was using in this example was dark-er.

Thanks Wendy!

Mike

[SusanGiff]

I'm sorry if this has been covered already--I haven't been following this topic and haven't had time to go through all six pages! Although from what I've read so far, I really should.

Here's my question: Can you freeze an unfrosted yellow cake for later use? I tried the recipe in this month's Fine Cooking and like it a lot.

Here's my reason: My neighbor has asked me to bake a cake for her daughter's bat mitzvah. I'm wildly flattered (really, I'm not that good). The catch is, the bat mitzvah falls during Passover. The cake will use regular flour (go figure). That's her business, and I don't mind, but I'm just observant enough a Jew to not want to bake the actual cake during Pesach! So I'd like to make it early next week and freeze it until the day before, then frost it that morning.

If I can't freeze it, I may just tell her I know this fabulous bakery, and it'll be my treat.

Thanks very much.

Susan

[CanadianBakin']

No problem freezing. Cool it, wrap it well in saran & maybe overwrap with foil. They thaw very quickly so you can just take it out of the freezer and ice.

[cathrynapple]

why do my cakes sink in the middle so often?

[Sugarella]

Here's my question: Can you freeze an unfrosted yellow cake for later use? I tried the recipe in this month's Fine Cooking and like it a lot.

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Yes, cool the cake completely, then chill in the fridge to help with wrapping so it doesn't smoosh; you want to wrap it while it's cold and firm. Use a high quality plastic wrap that's got a fair bit of stretch to it, otherwise just covering with regular wrap will allow air to get in and the freezer will affect it. Pull and stretch the plastic wrap around it to seal tight while wrapping, then put the wrapped cake inside a freezer bag that you've sucked all the air out of and seal it up. If you've got a foodsaver and can seal it airtight, that works very well also.

For thawing, it's important to remove the cake from the freezer to the fridge without unwrapping it and let it thaw completely under refridgeration. The reason is that moisture esaping the cake during thawing will settle outside the plastic wrap then eventually evaporate, whereas thawing something unwrapped will cause that same moisture to settle on the cake itself, and you'll just end up with soggy cake. Those freezing and thawing tricks work for any food, not just cake.

If the filling you'll be using will be ok in the freezer, you might want to torte and fill the cake, crumbcoat it, chill, then wrap in the plastic and freeze that way. It'll save you a lot of time the day of......

And as for the freezer....make sure you don't store the cake in there with fish or other things that have odors or it will absorb them. If you can, keep it in a dedicated freezer and move smelly things to another freezer if you have one. If you can't do that, put the whole wrapped cake inside a large rubbermaid or tupperware container, along with a little open baggie of baking soda to absorb smells, and seal it up.

why do my cakes sink in the middle so often?

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This is probably due to baking the cake at too high a temp too quickly. Try baking at 325, and make sure your oven is preheated.

[cathrynapple]

i'll try the lower temp. thanks.

[godiv@]

I love this thread...

I waited 10 years to buy my KA, and got a 5Q for only $199! (just had to say it) While I know it's possible to do a lot of things with a hand mixer, the KA saves you a great amount of time. I am also a self-taught baker, who's learned through trial and error. I have my favorite recipes which have yet to fail me.

I only use Cake Flour, SoftasSilk from Pillsbury. My cakes are light and fluffy all the time. I tried with AP just to check if it was all in my head, but the difference is obvious. I like to use AP for some chocolate cakes.

Questions:

1-My first set of pans were all 2". But then I figured I'd try the 3" to save some time and effort. Both sizes, 8" and 5" collapse in the center, and on the few occasions in which they haven't, they're condensed. I am making a few wedding cakes in the upcomming months and am debating whether or not to buy my missing pans 3" high. What say you?

2-If going 3" high, what's the biggest I should go with 3"? I'll be making 16" bases.

3 - As for baking temperatures, I normally bake at 350 and have no problems. For pans larger than 12", would you recommend I lower to 325 instead?

4 - And the biggest one: How many cake pans can I bake at the same time in my oven??? As I mentioned, I have pans 4-12 2"high, meaning I have to bake two in order to get my wedding tiers. In fear of spoiling the batter, i've refrained from baking on multiple racks. I bake mine in the middle of the oven; whatever fits on the rack without being to tight. It will take me about 7 hours to bake a 6,9,12,15!

NYCMike- for the aluminum pans, you can go to Broadway Panhandler - 477 Broome St. Their prices are very good...Don't buy them at NYC Cake Dist...On the other hand, if you don't mind ordering on-line, you can visit www.bakedeco.com. They're in Brooklyn.

[foodie3]

what is the proper technique for combining cold whipped cream and warm melted chocolate?

[Tweety69bird]

what is the proper technique for combining cold whipped cream and warm melted chocolate?

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I would let the chocolate cool a bit, stirring it to keep the temperature even. Then, fold in some whipped cream to lighten it up, and then fold in the balance.

[Patrick S]

what is the proper technique for combining cold whipped cream and warm melted chocolate?

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I've never had this work right. There is a mousse recipe that I've tried several times that calls for cool whipped cream to be folded into warm chocolate, and each time I've ended up with small bits of chocolate that don't get worked into the mixture. Vigorously working in a small portion of the cream first seemed to help, but I still ended up with bits of chocolate in the mousse. The same recipe called for folding in some pate a bombe after the cream. But I found that it comes together much better if the pate a bombe is folded into the chocolate first, and then the whipped cream.

[SweetSide]

what is the proper technique for combining cold whipped cream and warm melted chocolate?

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I've never had this work right. There is a mousse recipe that I've tried several times that calls for cool whipped cream to be folded into warm chocolate, and each time I've ended up with small bits of chocolate that don't get worked into the mixture. Vigorously working in a small portion of the cream first seemed to help, but I still ended up with bits of chocolate in the mousse. The same recipe called for folding in some pate a bombe after the cream. But I found that it comes together much better if the pate a bombe is folded into the chocolate first, and then the whipped cream.

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Ditto. I have a "chocolate chip" semifreddo my family loves... This one they have me make "wrong" on purpose now.

[mrbigjas]

bumping this one back up: is it possible to make a cake without a stand or hand mixer?

i don't have one. but there's this cake that i got the recipe for, and of course it involves beating butter and brown sugar, then adding an egg, and then some liquid, and then something else....

i know that they made cakes before there were mixers. how did that work? i really feel the need to have this cake, but i don't have the money or inclination to buy a mixer right this second.

so what should i do?

[cathrynapple]

lots of elbow grease!

[memesuze]

just visualize the downstairs staff in Upstairs, Downstairs or Gosford Park - someone always had a big bowl resting on her hip, beating away

[mrbigjas]

just visualize the downstairs staff in Upstairs, Downstairs or Gosford Park - someone always had a big bowl resting on her hip, beating away

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hmmm... very interesting. so if i sit around on saturday watching the ladies' finals, and then the consolation world cup match, and beat the cake the whole time..... i guess it's just a matter of knowing what it looks like when it's ready, eh?

i think i'll give it a try. or else i'll see if one of my neighbors has a hand mixer.

[CanadianBakin']

I took a short part-time pastry course this spring with a great pastry chef. He made us do everything by hand and the full-time students said they did most things by hand as well. His theory is that you need to be able to feel and see when your product is ready to move on to the next step. If you do it with a mixer you don't learn this as well and you're more likely to rely on a timer. You'll need a good whisk and a strong wrist. Good luck!

[mrbigjas]

I took a short part-time pastry course this spring with a great pastry chef. He made us do everything by hand and the full-time students said they did most things by hand as well. His theory is that you need to be able to feel and see when your product is ready to move on to the next step. If you do it with a mixer you don't learn this as well and you're more likely to rely on a timer. You'll need a good whisk and a strong wrist. Good luck!

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i have both of those things, thanks!

[Pontormo]

I was about to pipe up to say there were cakes baked long before the development of electronic kitchen appliances. You should be fine.

I don't know how urban your life is, but now is high season for yard sales. I bet you could find a hand mixer for a few bucks at just the right one. Mine is an inexpensive hand-me-down and has been humming along effectively for decades. Not as pretty as a lemon yellow or forest green KitchenAid, but it does speed up some things and cost much less than a copper bowl.

[tavogels]

OK, here's a really basic question. Are there different instructions for preparing the pan depending on the kind of cake being made? In other words, are there certain cakes for which the pan is never greased....and certain ones where it is always greased? And what about greased AND floured?

I ask b/c I tried to make a babka for the first time today. Usually, whatever I bake, I just butter and flour the pan without even checking the recipe. This time, though, I followed instructions exactly...the recipe said to just butter the pan...so I diligently buttered every nook and cranny, even though the bundt pan was already nonstick.

It was a complete disaster....stuck everywhere and came out in two halves. I was really surprised...with a stick of butter and 12 egg yolks, plus how well I buttered the pan, I thought there would be plenty of fat and it would slide right out.

The kids were happy to pry it out with spoons, but the cake was so delicious that I'd really like to make it again as a gift for a friend. Any words of wisdom?

[miladyinsanity]

I don't know what's a babka, but I do know that sometimes butter causes the cake to stick due to the water content.

Maybe try it again with oil? Or line the pan? Or grease and flour?

Certain cakes require UNGREASED pans, like Chiffon and Angelfood Cakes.