Asian Noodle Soups--Cook-Off 18

[mrbigjas]

I'm not even sure what exactly to call this meat. The shank cross cut? I had about 7 pounds, and after breaking it down by cubing the meat and trimming the fat --

I would call it osso bucco.

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I thought of that, too, but osso bucco is really the name of a dish and not a cut of meat. It's also veal, not beef.

those are called beef shins. or at least that's what i've seen it called at local butchers.

Edited January 23, 2006 by mrbigjas (log)

[Grub]

...I thought of that, too, but osso bucco is really the name of a dish and not a cut of meat. It's also veal, not beef.

...

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London Broil is also a dish, rather than a cut. But supermarkets (at least here in California) sell cuts labelled London Broil. I've not seen cuts sold as Osso Bucco in regular stores, but I have seen it in slightly more upscale markets, and with some pretty hefty price tags.

[mrbigjas]

Here's my illustrated step-by-step for the kuksu.

(...)

Crunch, crunch, slurp, slurp. Enjoy!

i've never participated in a cook-off before, but marco_polo, you inspired me to make a completely bastardized and wrongheaded version of this soup tonight. lacking beef ribs or really any meat at all, i fried garlic and ginger in sesame oil, then added sugar and soy, and cooked it some more to caramelize the sugar some, then added some beef stock i had on hand, and let it simmer for a while.

i made similar condiments for it--the omelet, the pickled cucumbers, some carrots in ginger/soy/sesame, some watercress instead of spinach. and of course kimchi.

(oh and a haemul pajun, but without the seafood. it always surprises me how long these take to brown.)

i'm going to make the real thing next time, because i know it'll be significantly better. but thank you for the inspiration anyway.

[Jason Perlow]

A Hu Tieu Rachel made tonight:

Stuff at the bottom of the bowl before plating with soup and noodles

Soup in the pot

Finished soup

[snowangel]

Beautiful, Jason! Tell me more about the broth. Were the noodles cooked in broth?

[Jason Perlow]

Beautiful, Jason!  Tell me more about the broth.  Were the noodles cooked in broth?

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The noodles are the same kind of noodles used for Pho, and they were briefly boiled in water. The broth is a chicken broth, from Hot, Sour, Salty, Sweet.

[aznsailorboi]

clockwise from top: onions, cinnamon stick, cloves and star anise

I rinsed these soupbones first in hot water a couple of times, then with just enough water to cover the bones in the pot bring it to a boil for about 15-20 minutes just enough to get most of the scum and blood to come out and coagulate.

While waiting for the soupbones to boil. I charred the onions and the ginger till the outside skin is burnt and the inside is soft. Don't worry about the char outside the skin, you will have to rinse this in cold water to remove the excess burnt stuff.

Meanwhile...this is after 20 minutes of boiling, got most of the scum floating by now.

This is the soupbones that have been parboiled and rinsed in hot water until all the scum are gone. Then now with a stockpot full of water, begin to bring the bones to a boil again.

These are the aromatics, onions and ginger have been rinsed in cold water and most of the burnt skin removed, got the cloves stuck on the onions as well and the ginger smashed. add the cinnamon and star anise in the cloth and tie it up.

all tied up and ready to put in the pot.

....been boiling for about 2 hrs.. and I'm constantly skimming the thick grease on top as well, but not all, I leave just enough grease for flavor.

...this ones been boiling for 12 hrs now....nice deep color, but no seasonings yet.

Beefballs with tendons.

Limes, Cilantro and scallions chopped, I leave some of the white part cut pretty big, and basil.

and the noodles and slices of beef.

and the finished creation by yourse truly .........end scene.

oh and btw this is my first posting of photos.... so i hope i did well.

[aznsailorboi]

oops i forgot the seasonings......

clockwise from top: Beef concentrate(optional) this just intesifies the beef flavor about 3 TBSP., MSG....yeah yeah i know its not good for you but i put it in anyways...about half a tablespoon, SALT about half a handful or less, depends on your taste, and coconut sugar, about 2 round disks...they're about 2 inches in across (not exactly but kinda gauge it from how big my spoons are lol....), I started seasoning after 12 hrs of boiling which would be pic # 9.

Then of course you also add more seasonings to it after its been ladled. The usual Hoisin Sauce, Sriracha chili sauce, chili garlic oil, fried garlic, more chilies (can't you guys tell I like my Pho fiery....it's called "Liquid A** Fire" in the morning lol )

**You guys probably wonder why there is no mention of FISHSAUCE. I add some in my bowl if the salt isn't enough, but I do not add it to the stock itself, coz I kinda notice that the fishy smell lingers in the broth... makes me think that the fishsauce smell doesnt meld to well with the beef broth.**

[Pan]

Some good-looking soups here!

aznsailorboi, this is a little nitpicky, but by "coconut sugar," do you mean normal palm sugar, or is it really from coconut palms?

Edited January 24, 2006 by Pan (log)

[aznsailorboi]

Some good-looking soups here!

aznsailorboi, this is a little nitpicky, but by "coconut sugar," do you mean normal palm sugar, or is it really from coconut palms?

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I think they're just regular palm sugar.....hehe I just copied off the label on the packaging. but they do taste just like the regular palm sugar, i just didnt know what they're generically called in english.

[Marco_Polo]

i've never participated in a cook-off before, but marco_polo, you inspired me...

i made similar condiments for it--the omelet, the pickled cucumbers, some carrots in ginger/soy/sesame, some watercress instead of spinach. and of course kimchi.

i'm going to make the real thing next time, because i know it'll be significantly better.  but thank you for the inspiration anyway.

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Hi mrbigjas, good job, it sounds great. Let us know how you get on next time.

[bilrus]

Served my Chicken Pho that I started a few days ago upthread -

Fixins ready for the bowl

Noodles being warmed up

Everything in the bowl

This turned out to be a good recipe. The broth was surprisingly rich and had a good flavor. A heavier hand than I'd usually use with the fish sauce, soy sauce and salt helped perk it up quite a bit.

Edited January 26, 2006 by bilrus (log)

[Susan in FL]

Some good-looking soups here!

aznsailorboi, this is a little nitpicky, but by "coconut sugar," do you mean normal palm sugar, or is it really from coconut palms?

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I think they're just regular palm sugar.....hehe I just copied off the label on the packaging. but they do taste just like the regular palm sugar, i just didnt know what they're generically called in english.

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Maybe a little nitpicky, but a good question, and good answer. Thanks!

Served my Chicken Pho that I started a few days ago upthread -

Fixins ready for the bowl

Noodles being warmed up

Everything in the bowl

This turned out to be a good recipe.  The broth was surprisingly rich and had a good flavor.  A heavier hand than I'd usually use with the fish sauce, soy sauce and salt helped perk it up quite a bit.

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Bill, I see your Sriracha sauce in the photo. How is it? I bought a bottle of that brand yesterday without looking closely at the label. I've done some reading that says it's only "real" Sriracha if it was produced in the Sriracha region of Thailand. The bottle I had prior to this one was from Thailand and delicious. I haven't tasted this kind, from the US yet, but I am expecting that a Thai person might not think it is Sriracha sauce. And, I'm not much for hotness; I much prefer to taste the flavor. That's why I liked the kind I bought before. Whatever, it was only $2.99, so if it isn't as good, I can keep it on hand and go buy some Thai produced Sriracha. Please excuse me if I offend anyone about brands. If my husband reads this, he will say I am being a snob. I mean no offense.

I did the cook-off tonight, but I am not near ready to post the photos and write it up. I'll be back!

[mrbigjas]

i have a question about asian noodle soups in general.

unlike many pasta-based soups (i'm thinking italian and american traditions here), in asian noodle soup recipes, one doesn't tend to put dry noodles into the soup and let them cook there, but rather cook them separately, and then pour the soup over them.

why is this?

is it about preserving the color of the noodle?

is it about the soup being the soup and the noodles being kind of a filler,for lack of a better word, and therefore not really part of the soup? like serving chili or gumbo over rice?

or is there something else?

just curious if there's something else i might be missing.

[Pan]

[...]I've done some reading that says it's only "real" Sriracha if it was produced in the Sriracha region of Thailand.  The bottle I had prior to this one was from Thailand and delicious.  I haven't tasted this kind, from the US yet, but I am expecting that a Thai person might not think it is Sriracha sauce.[...]

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Susan, pho is a Vietnamese soup, not a Thai soup, and every Vietnamese restaurant I've been to in New York prominently displays Huy Fong brand Sriracha on the table, so if it's good enough for all the Vietnamese-New Yorkers, it just might be good enough for you. And as you said, it's cheap. I'd suggest you try a little of the sauce by itself, then decide whether you want to add it while eating a bowl of your pho. What I've usually seen Vietnamese diners do in pho joints is put the sauce they want in a little saucer, then use their chopsticks to put some some meat and fresh vegetables and some noodles in the porcelain spoon, then take sauce from the saucer and put it on top with their chopsticks. Then, they put the spoonful of food into their mouths with the chopsticks. At the end, they may or may not drink the broth, but I've found that the wait staff suspects that if you didn't drink the broth, you might not have really liked the soup.

[Marco_Polo]

i have a question about asian noodle soups in general.

unlike many pasta-based soups (i'm thinking italian and american traditions here), in asian noodle soup recipes, one doesn't tend to put dry noodles into the soup and let them cook there, but rather cook them separately, and then pour the soup over them. 

why is this?

Cooking the noodles separately then rinsing under cold water both keeps the cooking broth clear and clean (very important) and also removes excess starch from the noodles.

[Pan]

I don't understand the concept of excess starch in noodles, since they're a starchy item. Please explain.

[Marco_Polo]

I don't understand the concept of excess starch in noodles, since they're a starchy item. Please explain.

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Cooking the noodles separately then rinsing removes the surface starch that comes out in cooking and which would otherwise cause them to stick together.

It's the same with washing rice before cooking. I can remember my grandmother filling the pot or rice cooker with rice, adding water, whooshng it around and around with her hands. The water turns milky from the 'excess' starch washed off, she drains it away, fills again, washes, rinses and does it all again. Maybe five, six times until the water is clear. Then she'd leave the rice to soak for an hour or two before cooking. It's still the way I cook rice myself.

Anybody else wash and soak rice before cooking?

[Tepee]

Wash and soak rice? I think everyone washes rice at least 3 rinses, and I do now and then soak rice before cooking more for convenience than anything else as I don't find any difference in the outcome.

Rinsing noodles under cold water is ideal not only to remove the excess starch but to stop further cooking. We, chinese, like our noodles al dente too, and not sticky mushy. Hawkers, who don't have excess to running water, just dip/rinse the noodles in a pot of water after the first blanch, then quick-blanch a second time.

[Pan]

I rinse rice before cooking, but I think of it as more to get any dirt or dust or whatever off than for any other reason. I don't put water on noodles after cooking, however. Noodles should be clean to begin with, so I just boil them, then toss them in the sauce and serve. Of course, that's for pasta with sauce. But come to think of it, in European-style soups with noodles, I never remember the noodles being cooked separately by my father or mother. They just put the noodles in the soup and let them simmer, making sure to put them in late enough so that they didn't get mushy (or they used rice and, in that instance, dispensed with rinsing it, I think). I don't think we ever cared about the marginal amount of cloudiness that the noodles would put into the soup, since I'm thinking of things like a whole chicken and a bunch of vegetables in soup with a smaller amount of noodles. But then again, those weren't Asian soups.

[bilrus]

Bill, I see your Sriracha sauce in the photo.  How is it?  I bought a bottle of that brand yesterday without looking closely at the label.  I've done some reading that says it's only "real" Sriracha if it was produced in the Sriracha region of Thailand.  The bottle I had prior to this one was from Thailand and delicious.  I haven't tasted this kind, from the US yet, but I am expecting that a Thai person might not think it is Sriracha sauce.  And, I'm not much for hotness; I much prefer to taste the flavor.  That's why I liked the kind I bought before.  Whatever, it was only $2.99, so if it isn't as good, I can keep it on hand and go buy some Thai produced Sriracha.  Please excuse me if I offend anyone about brands.  If my husband reads this, he will say I am being a snob.  I mean no offense.

I did the cook-off tonight, but I am not near ready to post the photos and write it up.  I'll be back!

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My answer would be the same as Pan's - this is the same brand that most of the Pho places here in DC seem to have on the table, so it is the only one I know. It is also the only one that they carried at Wegman's when I was there this weekend.

I don't use a lot of it in my soup anyway. I do find the flavor to be a bit more "harsh" than "Western" hot sauces. But I feel that way about most Asian ones like sambal oelek or garlic-chili pastes.

[aznsailorboi]

I don't cook my noodles separate though, but I buy the fresh pho noodles and then soak in hot water from the faucet, then when I'm ready to serve I just layer them in the bowl, noodles at the bottom, then the raw beef slices then veggies. I make sure when I ladle my broth in, that the broth is boiling vigorously, this method tends to cook the noodles just enough but still leave it with that chewiness of the rice noodles....mushy isn't nice to eat.

[Chris Amirault]

Had the pho bo last night. Does anyone know if the bo is pronounced like the pho? Fuh buh or fuh boh? Anyway, however it's pronounced, it was fantastic, served with cilantro, culantro, Thai basil, bean sprouts, sliced onion, lime, sliced chili peppers, sriracha, and paper thin eye of round. Here's the eye of round, frozen pretty solid, getting sliced up:

Nice 'n' thin:

My mom's bowl:

I'll also add that precooking the dry rice noodles and then dousing them with cold water to stop the cooking requires the extra step -- which I didn't do last night -- of reheating the noodles with very hot water. Otherwise, when you pour your wonderful pho stock into the bowl, the stock cools off drastically bc of the cold noodles.

[aznsailorboi]

Chris---that eye of round is beautiful!!! so red......looks so fresh, and the bowl of the finish product was fabulous!

[Shalmanese]

What is everybodys opinions on the fattiness of the beef for noodle soups? Well marbled meat can withstand a bit more cooking and is a bit more tender but meat high in connective tissue, if sliced thin enough, provides a wonderful chewy texture and no toughness. Has anybody tried Wagyu ribeye noodle soup? I wager that would be something of an experience.