Copper Cookware: The Topic

[rotuts]

I thought Ive read in the past that sugar-candy was made in an un=lined copper post as

 

there was some sort of reaction w the copper .  

 

I could not find this on the internet , but found this :

 

Copper cookware without coating by BAUMALU and de Buyer

Copper pots without coating are particularly suitable for making jam. Jam pots and the so-calles "Poêlon à Confiseur", which pastry chefs use to make syrup, caramel, chocolate, etc. because of their excellent heat conductivity, are not tin-plated. The melting temperature of sugar is at over 180 °C and would damage tin coatings. In order to avoid the formation of verdigris, food should be taken out of an un-plated copper pot after cooking and not left in it to cool down. 

 

I guess its for coppers heat conductivity

 

I was thinking of egg whites I guess 

 

https://www.thekitchn.com/the-science-behind-whipping-egg-whites-in-copper-bowls-221943

 

Beest me on the polenta.

 

 

[Move]

Electric Flat plate is stove I'm using for my cooking, but I never have copper cookware so I have no idea how they perform, but I'm thinking about them because I learned they heat up fast than other cookware's, which is my goal.   Stainless steel lined with 2.5mm copper is I'm looking for, such Mauvil, Matfer, Falk.

 

My questions, will be big differences in cooking performance between Copper pans and Stainless steel pans in general on Electric stove?

 

Mauvil and Matfer are well known, but very pricy, and their handles get hot (CI or Bronze), but Since Falk is new brand and has darker color copper and 18/8 stainless steel grey color, vs Mauvil which has gold copper color and 18/10 stainless steel lining.   So based on these spec, how cooking performance of Falk compare to others?   And will heat up fast same as Mauviel and Matfer?   And is it non-reactive to food acidic?

 

And thanks all for help.

 

[Joe Blowe]

While waiting for advice, please check out the following:

 

[AlaMoi]

I have a bunch of Bourgeat SS lined.  I find it's biggest asset is even heating over long times.

stews, braises, soups, etc.

 

pure stainless, aluminum, etc tend to develop hot spots and burn a pattern into the bottom of stuff.

a flat plate electric may not exhibit that issue as much as the electric coil style.

 

the usual "benefit" mentioned is the responsiveness to heat input.  and that is without question true and accurate.

I'm a gas top user - and copper responds very very quickly - but keep in mind turning a gas flame up/down is a much faster source change than a electric plate or coil.

 

I regularly sear meats, brown vegetables, sear fish skin . . . in stainless copper. 

stuff like eggs and crepes, I go with a Teflon pan.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

12 hours ago, Move said:

Electric Flat plate is stove I'm using for my cooking, but I never have copper cookware so I have no idea how they perform, but I'm thinking about them because I learned they heat up fast than other cookware's, which is my goal.   Stainless steel lined with 2.5mm copper is I'm looking for, such Mauvil, Matfer, Falk.

 

My questions, will be big differences in cooking performance between Copper pans and Stainless steel pans in general on Electric stove?

 

Mauvil and Matfer are well known, but very pricy, and their handles get hot (CI or Bronze), but Since Falk is new brand and has darker color copper and 18/8 stainless steel grey color, vs Mauvil which has gold copper color and 18/10 stainless steel lining.   So based on these spec, how cooking performance of Falk compare to others?   And will heat up fast same as Mauviel and Matfer?   And is it non-reactive to food acidic?

 

And thanks all for help.

 

 

I sincerely doubt there is any difference in the composition of the steel or copper in laminated pans from Falk, Matfer, or Mauviel.  Do you have a source for the information?

 

With an electric stove the way to achieve responsiveness is simply to lift the pan off the burner.  I do this, for example, when making Hollandaise.  Copper heats up and cools down fast.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

As I understand your questions: 

 

1) Copper is more responsive than stainless, it heats and cools faster.   As far as getting hot slowly, I suspect that is more a function of the stove top than the pan.

2) Agree with JoNorvelle 100% I suspect the composition of those pans are all close to the same.   I personally prefer copper core stainless to copper, as I find it easier to take care of.   Others on this site will vehemently disagree.

3) all of those pans should be lined and would be non reactive.

 

Welcome to egullet.   Would love to hear more about how and what you cook.

[paulraphael]

6 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I sincerely doubt there is any difference in the composition of the steel or copper in laminated pans from Falk, Matfer, or Mauviel.  Do you have a source for the information?

 

 

Falk makes their own laminated material, and they also sell it to Mauviel and Bourgeat. Exact same stuff. This arrangement explains why Falk is often a little cheaper. 

 

I love my copper pans. They feel great to use. But the real-world performance advantage is very, very subtle. On an electric cooktop I can't imagine it would be noticeable at all. Because copper's biggest advantage is responsiveness, and electric ranges (with the exception of induction, which won't work on copper) are very slow and imprecise to respond. 

 

Other things that copper does well, like spreading heat evenly, other materials can match. 5mm of aluminum heats every bit as evenly as 2.5mm of copper. But on most electric ranges, you don't need evenness from your cookware, because the burner has even coverage. 

 

So get copper if you're salivating for it. But don't expect it to improve your cooking. 

[Move]

Thanks a lot to all for wonderful inputs.  These details very helpful to me understand the differences.

 

JoNorvelleWalker, here is the link for Falk spec 18/8 stainless:
https://www.falkcoppercookware.com/signature/28cm-copper-frying-pan/2505S1810

 

Dr. Teeth, thank you.   Most my cooking consist of frying moderately checking breast or sea food, then add vegetable, simmer for 10-12 minute, then finish cooking with sauce.  Rarely, cook red meat.   Also make a lot chocolates sauce and desserts on top stove, pasta and rice as well.   I cook all around the world food recipe, and I have most of ATK books and many other books.

 

My Whirlpool stove is really old, 25 years, few flat plates don't heat even coverage, they need to replaced, but there is no replacement at moment because old stove, i can afford buy new  as only solution but i felt little lazy about it at moment.   So it is important to use pan has good heat even.

 

I have All-Clad D3 and D5, and many expensive enameled Dutch ovens.   Dutch ovens not practical to me because heavy and require long heat and powerful flame, but All-Cald D5 doing incredible job.   But I'm looking cookware more fast heating and use little energy as well, to make cooking more easy.  I will buy one copper pan and see how will perform in my stove.

[palo]

52 minutes ago, Move said:

But I'm looking cookware more fast heating and use little energy as well, to make cooking more easy. 

Aluminum is used extensively in commercial kitchens because of its fast heating and quick response - it has numerous drawbacks but they are tradeoffs - if you want quote "fast heating and use little energy" then that's the route to go and they are relatively inexpensive

 

p

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, Move said:

Thanks a lot to all for wonderful inputs.  These details very helpful to me understand the differences.

 

JoNorvelleWalker, here is the link for Falk spec 18/8 stainless:
https://www.falkcoppercookware.com/signature/28cm-copper-frying-pan/2505S1810

 

Dr. Teeth, thank you.   Most my cooking consist of frying moderately checking breast or sea food, then add vegetable, simmer for 10-12 minute, then finish cooking with sauce.  Rarely, cook red meat.   Also make a lot chocolates sauce and desserts on top stove, pasta and rice as well.   I cook all around the world food recipe, and I have most of ATK books and many other books.

 

My Whirlpool stove is really old, 25 years, few flat plates don't heat even coverage, they need to replaced, but there is no replacement at moment because old stove, i can afford buy new  as only solution but i felt little lazy about it at moment.   So it is important to use pan has good heat even.

 

I have All-Clad D3 and D5, and many expensive enameled Dutch ovens.   Dutch ovens not practical to me because heavy and require long heat and powerful flame, but All-Cald D5 doing incredible job.   But I'm looking cookware more fast heating and use little energy as well, to make cooking more easy.  I will buy one copper pan and see how will perform in my stove.

 

The description is as you said.  Yet I've heard that it is Falk that makes the bi-laminate used by the other manufacturers.  Maybe someone else here has more information.

 

[SLB]

Meanwhile.  I have been eyeing a Falk piece, waiting for a sale.  Well.  I spent the weekend not looking at email, and missed it.

 

It was only 10%, but I can eat for a week on 10% of a Falk pan. 

 

Sigh.   Maybe they have a holiday sale.  

[weinoo]

45 minutes ago, SLB said:

Meanwhile.  I have been eyeing a Falk piece, waiting for a sale.  Well.  I spent the weekend not looking at email, and missed it.

 

It was only 10%, but I can eat for a week on 10% of a Falk pan. 

 

Sigh.   Maybe they have a holiday sale.  

 

There's always a Try Me sale...and it appears as if some other pieces are on sale as well...https://www.copperpans.com/try-me-classic-saucier-18-cm-14-qt

 

FWIW, I'm a fan of their classic line.

[SLB]

Patiently waiting for a Try Me Rondeau.  

[weinoo]

2 hours ago, SLB said:

Patiently waiting for a Try Me Rondeau.  

 

They appear to only do the Try Me on the smaller sauciers or saucepans.  But at some point, I believe they do a sale on all products.

[weinoo]

Just got an email from Falk:

 

We are expanding our TRY ME offer!

We offer a significant discount on our 18 cm Sauciers to encourage people to try cooking with copper.  This has been a great way for people to try Falk at a terrific value.  Now we are offering the same discount on all three of our 20 cm (8") frying pans: Classic, Signature and Copper Coeur. Read more about the differences in these lines on our FAQ page.

[weinoo]

Uh oh - scary stuff.  Everything is 15% off for Halloween!

[SLB]

Order in.  

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I'd wait for a better sale.

 

[weinoo]

On 10/29/2022 at 12:25 AM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I'd wait for a better sale.

 

 

Well, here you go...

 

Quote

Our annual Black Friday Sale starts now!

Sale features 20% all regularly priced items and an additional 10% off sets and Try Me pans.

 

[afs]

On 10/4/2022 at 12:11 AM, paulraphael said:

 

Falk makes their own laminated material, and they also sell it to Mauviel and Bourgeat. Exact same stuff. This arrangement explains why Falk is often a little cheaper. 

 

I love my copper pans. They feel great to use. But the real-world performance advantage is very, very subtle. On an electric cooktop I can't imagine it would be noticeable at all. Because copper's biggest advantage is responsiveness, and electric ranges (with the exception of induction, which won't work on copper) are very slow and imprecise to respond. 

 

Other things that copper does well, like spreading heat evenly, other materials can match. 5mm of aluminum heats every bit as evenly as 2.5mm of copper. But on most electric ranges, you don't need evenness from your cookware, because the burner has even coverage. 

 

So get copper if you're salivating for it. But don't expect it to improve your cooking. 

I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian on copper.  Hopefully it doesn't get me expelled for heresy.  I'm a scientist and I do all my cooking on precision induction cooktops (e.g. PolyScience Control Freak, and soon Vollrath 4-series to a lesser extent), so I may be an odd man out here.

My journey to copper came because I wanted a pan I could use for precision cooking (i.e. highly responsive pans, with even heat or gradient heat distribution).  I started out with ceramic pans (which wore out quickly), moved onto cast iron (which basically gave me a ring of heat instead of a nice heat gradient--and which did not respond to temperature changes quickly at all) and then onto stainless steel.  Out of options, I decided that fully-clad stainless steel pans were probably the way to go.

But then I found out that De Buyer has induction-compatible copper pans in their Prima Matera collection.  I know from training that copper is the second-most conductive element for heat transfer, and I was hoping that induction-compatible copper would give me good pan responsiveness.  But while I do love pretty things, I am not good enough friends with Bar Keepers Friend to buy copper-exterior pans.  I had a hard enough time keeping my cast iron from rusting.  I'm just not ready for a long-term relationship with copper (although I know others are, and I totally get it...copper really is pretty).

My De Buyer Prima Matera research led me to finding Falk, and I found out they make "Copper Coeur" induction-compatible copper pans.  Except theirs have a thin induction-compatible stainless steel exterior pressure-bonded onto the copper pans...basically exactly what I was looking for.

So I've ended up with copper pans for 90% of my pans (for 90% of my cooking, where I want precise temperature control and rapid responsiveness).  For the other 10%, I picked up a handful of Kuhn Rikon Duromatic (thick-bottom pans).  Those work extremely well as pressure cookers of course, but they also serve as a good saute pan for searing meat (while retaining lots of heat and distributing pretty heat evenly across the base) and as good stockpots and sterilization vessels.  For me, the mix works.  Maybe 3mm copper pans could have served the role that Duromatic serves for me; if it was induction compatible, I'd love to try.

I'm only a few months into using copper, but I'm pretty hooked.  The performance of the induction stovetop and copper pans together is kind of ridiculous.  The funny (heretical?) thing is that most people have no clue that my copper pans are wearing a mostly stainless steel disguise until they lift them (since copper is, well, not light).  My main complaint with them is that they're hand-wash only, but I've come to terms with that by this point.

I hope you all will welcome me into the copper club, even though I'm here because I love the science of copper rather than the beauty.  But if I get expelled for loving copper for all the wrong reasons, I just ask that you'll let me lurk in the corner instead, and remain my scientist-heretic self.

afs

[weinoo]

I love the science as well.  Might be why that last sale forced me into this...

 

 

Much less than we spent for a crappy dinner at a restaurant not too long ago.  Which is always my rationale.

[weinoo]

What's amazing to me is how easily they clean and shine up...on the inside!

 

I rarely bring out the Bar Keeper's Friend or other copper cleaners - I mean, they have to look pretty grungy on the exterior for that to happen.

[afs]

2 hours ago, weinoo said:

I love the science as well.  Might be why that last sale forced me into this...

 

Much less than we spent for a crappy dinner at a restaurant not too long ago.  Which is always my rationale.

Is that the 20cm sauce pan?  I picked up a 20cm dutch oven (and a few other items) during that same sale...which I think is basically the same size and shape of pan but with two helper-style handles on it.

Your photo is pretty great (and with some good looking Staub in the background).  I'd offer to take a photo of my adopted induction-compatible copper, but I'm really quite terrible at taking photos.  I'm much better at making charts.  😭

Regarding Bar Keepers Friend (BKF), yeah.  I don't know what Falk does to the inside of these pans, but soap and water (or frankly just warm water and a plastic Lodge scraper) seem to keep them clean inside.  Except when I cook bacon.  Oh boy, that's when I pull out my BKF (which I refer to as "bacon grease eraser")  

afs

[afs]

6 hours ago, weinoo said:

I love the science as well.  Might be why that last sale forced me into this...

I didn't finish my Black Friday order until earlier this week, so my new copper pans aren't here yet.  But here's the 18cm saucier I picked up a while ago.  It's seen a ton of use, so please pardon the dirt.  And the dust.  So much dust around here.

Compared to yours, the copper on the ones I bought is a little more subtle.  I'm really glad Falk left it fully exposed around the rim though.  Not just because it's pretty, but because I had my calipers handy (to make sure I got as much copper as I paid for!) 👼

afs

[weinoo]

4 hours ago, afs said:

I don't know what Falk does to the inside of these pans, but soap and water (or frankly just warm water and a plastic Lodge scraper) seem to keep them clean inside.  Except when I cook bacon.  Oh boy, that's when I pull out my BKF (which I refer to as "bacon grease eraser")  

 

I don't necessarily think Falk does anything special. I have older tin-coated copper Mauviel, newer stainless lined Mauviel - if used correctly, it cleans up as easily as nonstick.

 

I never use the same high heat with copper that I might be persuaded to use in stainless, cast iron, or blue steel. I say "persuaded" as I don't really find screaming high heat necessary for most of my home cooking. And I have no outdoor space in which to play with really high heat.

 

So stuff rarely sticks.