NY regional dinner

[tommy]

this seems like it's becoming a mess.  maybe an organized approach is in order?  

it seems that we can't pick a date until we see who's interested.  and it seems that we can't figure out who's interested until we get a price-point and restaurant.  not to mention borough.

perhaps if we put together a couple of informal lists, as a foundation for a decision.  one could be people who'd be game for anything so long as it's not over say 40 bucks a head.  another for people who wouldn't mind something like 60.  and a third group of people who would enjoy something like a Bid experience.  once we see where the interest lies, we can make a decision on which "type" of dinner to even attempt to plan first.  at least we'll have a bit of focus then.

then again, i'm a complete twit, so don't listen to me.

[=Mark]

This isn't rocket science!  (Actually rocket science isn't science, it's engineering...)

Pick a place and a date, post a menu and give folks a deadline for signing up.  Period.

If you ask everybody for advice you're only going to piss off the 95% of them whose suggestions you don't use.

This is from 20+ years of dinners, luncheons and picnics arranged, feel free to use this suggestion, I promise not to be upset if you don't...  

[Wilfrid]

perhaps if we put together a couple of informal lists, as a foundation for a decision.  one could be people who'd be game for anything so long as it's not over say 40 bucks a head.  another for people who wouldn't mind something like 60.  and a third group of people who would enjoy something like a Bid experience.  

That's not a couple, that's three.  But it's a good idea.  

Clarification?  By $40/$60, do you mean all inclusive?  Or do you mean that's the estimated food bill?  The latter seems more plausible.  

How about asking people to sign up in principle (obviously depending on date and final details) by the end of the week?  Doesn't mean people can't sign up later - just so as we have some idea.

Put me down for any of the three.

Edit:  I just read Mark's post above.  Perhaps three options is more complicated.  Why not do a $40 and a Bid.  Who needs the middle of the Road?

[tommy]

This isn't rocket science!  (Actually rocket science isn't science, it's engineering...)

Pick a place and a date, post a menu and give folks a deadline for signing up.  Period.

If you ask everybody for advice you're only going to piss off the 95% of them whose suggestions you don't use.

This is from 20+ years of dinners, luncheons and picnics arranged, feel free to use this suggestion, I promise not to be upset if you don't...  

actually, my suggestion was more in the interest of collating what we already have, which doesn't seem like much.  i don't recall even 2 people deciding on the same place yet.  i'd hate to post a date and a place and be the only one who showed up.

as with wilfrid, count me in for all three.

[Fat Guy]

CONFUCIUS SAY: There's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow lines and dead armadillos.

[Wilfrid]

I have never eaten armadillo.

Putting that aside, let's be assertive.  Two options: Option One a dinner where the estimated food price will be around $40, and Option Two an upmarket tasting menu around $100.  We'll sort the drinks out later.  We'll sort the dates out later.  Those of us who care seem to be willing to do both types of dinner, probably not on the same day.

Can y'all* just say whether you are interested in One, Two or both.  This does not oblige you to show up, of course, it's just with the aim of finding out what if anything is worth planning.

tommy can then take over all the detailed arrangements.

*I am learning American.

[Rail Paul]

re: Bid.

Figure the six element tasting menu will set the diner back by $90-100. A typical bottle of wine there will be $50-60. That may require a fourth list (cost $150+). Whether they'd even let in a group similar to the NJ bunch is open to debate.

Tommy - re: Basque

There's a pleasant little Basque place on 49th street, halfway up the block from First Av and the UN. Lunches run $15. Mirachu. Nice garden out back.

[Wilfrid]

Hate to be negative, Rail Paul, but your comment on Bid is consistent with the suggestion I called Option Two, namely around $100 and we'll figure out the drinks later.  And also I didn't like Marichu - thought it was a bit dull.

[tommy]

and here i was packing up for a quick drink at marichu when wilfrid comes and blows that out of the water!

i hope whatever place we choose for the 100+ dinner has a well soundproofed private room.  i can imagine that things could get a bit loud.

[tommy]

mirachu doesn't seem to be on any database other than rail paul's and wilfrid's!!!

[Wilfrid]

I checked my spelling, and it is Marichu, and on Zagat.com

http://www.zagat.com/search....&LID=14

[tommy]

I checked my spelling, and it is Marichu, and on Zagat.com

http://www.zagat.com/search....&LID=14

cool.  thanks.  unfortunately, it just became so late that i can't stop there tonite.  maybe i'll get there some other time.  zagat's seems to like it.  wilfrid must be wrong.    

[stefanyb]

#1   I think taking over a place for the evening is a nifty idea.  That could be for a pre-determined amount per person and for a relatively large group.  Someone, any ONE person can organize this.

#2   Also, a more intimate dinner can be planned for 8-10 people at a more upscale establishment.  Someone else can plan this.

I'm up for both and willing to plan #2

[Fat Guy]

I would like to take this opportunity, per Wilfrid's suggestion, to say that I would like to join the group for both a downscale and an upscale meal. This is of course subject to my availability -- in particular my travel schedule -- but I would very much like to come. So you can count me in.

I want to add that, for me, $100 or $150 is not an insignificant amount of money. I used to be a well-to-do attorney and wouldn't have thought twice about spending that much (more, in fact) on a shirt. I am still sort of an attorney, but no longer a well-to-do one. I work hard to make $100 these days. Most of the time, when I dine out, I do so because a magazine or newspaper will reimburse me. I also have other clever schemes for getting free meals, such as being taken out on a semi-regular basis by a few rich benefactors.

I am by no means the poorest eGullet member. I am, however, most likely below average here in income, especially if you adjust that income for geography.

But even though I'm not rich, $100 is an amount of money I can spend without having to sacrifice medication or default on my rent. And without wanting to seem insensitive, I believe that must be true for almost everyone who participates on this site.

So, if you don't want to spend $100 or more to eat with this group, there's nothing wrong with that. But please understand that you're making a decision, a choice: You'd rather eat three or four $30 meals without us than one $100+ meal with us plus pasta for a week. Okay, that's fine. Reasonable, in fact -- I myself am not entirely fond of fine-dining in large groups. But that's different than not being able to afford the $100+ meal.

If I'm wrong, if there are those of you for whom $100 would actually constitute a great personal sacrifice such that we are truly excluding you by virtue of your poverty, talk to Plotnicki and he'll pay for you.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I just love when my name (and wallet) are mentioned in vain. I have got quite alot of experience with wine offlines. I must have attended at least 25 of them, possibly more. I will tell you that the social experience is far more important than the food or the wine. But in order for the social experience to work, the food (or wine) has to be at a sufficient level of interest to stimulate conversation. I mean it's the reason we all attend in the first place isn't it?

The other thing that is important is that the spirit of the dinner capture the spirit of the board. I mean I find it perculiar that people would recommend a place like Les Halles or Sripaphai (places I like and love,) when those places are hardly ever mentioned by any of the participants in threads. If if we were looking for an ethnic place to go to, how can it not be Dim Sum GoGo? I mean it's only been mentioned here 1000 times.

As for price which is really a discussion about inclusion/exclusion, that's a bit harder to reconcile. All the points made so far are valid, but trying to accomodate everyone all of the time is a pitfall that we shouldn't step into.

If the goal is to make it affordable to everyone, all that will happen is that the experience will end up getting watered down. The type of places that we go to need to reflect the people who use the board, and the type of places that are visited need to be a reflection of their experiences. Considering how many of the discussions here revolve around places like Gramercy, Craft, Ducasse, etc., it's hard to imagine that those places won't be chosen on occassion. But that means that certain people will not be able to attend. But in the end that will balance out because you will find that others will pass on more affordable places like Marichu (not a favorite of mine) and over an entire series of dinners it will even out.

The other thing that is imperative for a dinner is a place that will allow BYO. The entire experience can be seriously upgraded by people bringing bottles from their own cellars, people buying bottles, or chipping in to buy bottles to bring. BYO is a good passive way for each person to contribute according to their economic means. Those who are wine savvy can contribute a $15 bottle of wine that can make as big an impact on a dinner as a $100 bottle.

One more thing that is important is some type of set menu, which really means that the dinner has been organized by someone in advance. It was probably the biggest flaw at the London dinner as the kitchen had a difficult time cooking for a table of 11 while the regular restaurant was busy and would probably have done a better job of it if we were limited to a few choices for each course.

So given all these variables, I suggest that the first meal be at a level that is affordable to everyone who wants to attend. And a place in Chinatown like Dim Sum GoGo, Ping's, etc. could probably accomodate us. But let's not go out to the boroughs. Not that I have anything against them. I grew up there. But let's leave those offlines for the people from that other board. Then the next dinner can be organized for a Craft level place. Overtime, everyone will get to attend enough dinners so as not to feel left out and will get to know and like everyone else. And Mondays and Tuesdays are the best nights to cut deals with places. So

I guess the other solution is to eat in one of those all you can eat places like the people in Jersey did. But then again it's Jersey and this is NYC. We are too sophisticated for that here. I mean did you see that picture of the guy with that big skewer? Please, a little refinement. Seriously Fat Guy, how big is that back room at Lupa? The food costs would be reasonable and we could probably scratch out a good meal. I'm not sure they would allow BYO but it would be worth a shot. I mean you are an important food critic. How could they refuse you?

[Fat Guy]

See why I put you in charge, Plotnicki? It's not my fault that my directive was immediately dismissed and ignored. My mention of Sripraphai was, by the way, a sophisticated plot to draw you out. Still, it has been discussed on at least four threads on these boards (perhaps more, but I only searched by the correct spelling). But I like your ideas so much, I once again place you in charge.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Gee thanks Shaw. Actually I don't mind. But you won't get large attendance at Sripaphai. And they will never have enough banana sticky rice for us. What do you think about GoGo? Is it a place that is good for dinner? I've just been for Dim Sum.

[Fat Guy]

Bux is the guy to ask about DSGG (what the cool people call it); that restaurant seems to be one of his pets. He might not read this thread unless you e-mail him, though.

Plotnicki, coordinate with the self-appointed committee and get this done already.

[helenas]

May I propose a dinner on February 15, 2005, 9PM.

As you decide on the place, the date is still per original post? :confused:

[Bux]

Fat Guy, you know I lurk in every corner and I know you're just trying to provoke me, but you know I knew that too. Leaving aside our discussions of the charm of group dining for the moment, Plotnicki's suggestion of Dim Sum Go Go is an interesting one for many reasons.

[i try to avoid referring to restaurants by their initials, at least the first time in every paragraph. I have a hard time figuring out when people are referring to Craft Bar and when they mean Cafe Boulud for instance.]

Actually Robert Brown may be more of a fan than I am. Until he suggested it was great at dinner, we had only been there for dim sum. It's quite good for dinner. I suspect you could get the upstairs room. BYOL should not be a problem. There's no reason to suspect you can't arrange a set meal and price before hand. One single advantage would be that you'd get great food for a modertate price. I'm not sure if dim sum would be more or less expensive than eating dinner or if dim sum might not be a good idea. I guess the one problem there is that weekend dim sum is probably their most crowded time.

I should note that Plotnicki's mention of Dim Sum Go Go in the same context as Ping's was about to get a response from me anyway. All of my dim sum including a few orders off the regular menu and my one dinner were very well received. maybe one dish that didn't please and a slight inconsistency, but overall high marks and heads above most places in Chinatown. I've had two meals in Ping's. The first was just good enough that I thought we needed to give it another look. That second meal was the worst meal I think I've ever had in Chinatown. I've been eating in Chinatown regularly since the early sixties when Bill Dekooning introduced me to some long gone restaurant in a basement space on Doyers Street. I wooed my wife in cheap Chinese restaurants and we continued to eat in them for years. BoBo's with courses running fifty cents at that time was what we considered upscale. My daughter probably learned how to use chopsticks soon after she could hold a spoon. I believe I've had more more than half my adult restaurant meals in Chinatown and Ping's served me the worst one I can remember. I would bring a bagel if someone took me there for dinner.

[Fat Guy]

BYOB = Bring Your Own Bagel

[tommy]

Steven:   yawn.

[Pan]

My two cents: no thanks to Les Halles, for it's inexcusable cramming of tables, and let's remember, there are a few vegetarians in the mix. And if you want to help a downtown restaurant, help one that was there in September to help others - Pinxtos, Pico, Chanterelle, Tribeca Grill, Yaffa's - all contributed mightily.

You aren't talking about Yaffa on St. Marks Place, are you? If so, I nix it. It's quite acceptable for late-night dining if you're in the area, and I like the Middle-Eastern platter with hummus, baba ganouj, tabouleh, and hot sauce, but there's no real reason to make a trip to go there.

I haven't been to the other places you mention.

[Pan]

I think I made a similar statement to this before... so I apologize for repeating myself.

The NY dinner crowd shouldn't worry SO MUCH about how expensive the dinner is.  They should make a concerted effort to make sure that EVERY eGullet dinner isn't equally as expensive (and in fact it is a good idea to start off the first dinner with an a more affordable option), but I feel strongly that it would be to the detriment of the community if this issue isn't settled now.  Some dinners will be affordable and some not.  Nobody should be offended if someone chooses to not show up at a dinner in either financial "direction", and the dinners should be often enough to satisfy both crowds.

That makes sense to me.

FWIW, I can take or leave wine. A good wine can add a lot to an Italian or French dinner, for example. In point of fact, though, I rather seldom drink any alcohol with a meal.

[Rosie]

"FWIW, I can take or leave wine. A good wine can add a lot to an Italian or French dinner, for example. In point of fact,

though, I rather seldom drink any alcohol with a meal."

GEE--I hardly have a meal without wine!   I would say the same is true for Tommy also.

Hey STEVE P --That was not a very nice remark about NJ.