Kitchen Knives: Preferences, Tips, General Care

[DancingOnMyGrave]

Hello everybody!

Like I said, I'm terribly sorry if this is a very common topic; I didn't see any like mine on the front page of this forum, so I'm assuming it's not too much of a n00b-ish question.

So right now, I live with my mom, and she has some random knives that she uses all the time. I don't know if they were part of a set or what, but she's had them FOREVER and they're pretty dull. I honestly don't think there's a sharp knife in the bunch. I have no idea what the quality of the blades were originally.

My big plan was to buy her some good knives for her birthday (mid-March). Having absolutely no experience in the knife department, I almost bought her that info-mercial Ronco set. Then I googled it and was lead to this website, where I read in another forum that they're total junk.

So I'm back to square one. I know I'm not looking to spend a huge chunk of change, but there are three people contributing to this present (maybe four), so as long as I don't break $200 or $250, I think it would be alright.

I'm looking for a knife (or knives) that will be good quality, low maintainence, and worthy of everyday kitchen jobs. My mother is no professional chef, but she does cook almost every day; so the low-quality knives are a huge nuisance. What type of knife would you recommend? I read that a chef's knife and paring knife are good for starters, but it doesn't seem like those two alone would get everything done. Of course, I would like suggestions about brands, carbon vs. stainless, etc.

I was also looking for some advice about storing them - I read in another thread that storing them all together in a drawer (what she's been doing for the past 15 years) is very bad for them. I read about buying covers of some sort, but I just need to know what to look for.

Sorry for the long post, but thank you if you've read this far! I really appreciate any advice you can give me.

Thank you in advance.

~Grave

[s_sevilla]

global knives for your "important knife" which is all you really need, and then for the "sacrificial" knives go with Victorinox Forschner. You really only need 2-3 knives at the most, so I would go for a Global Chef's knife, 8-10 inches depending on preference, a sharpening steel, and then a serrated bread knife, paring knife, and boning/fileting knife from Victorinox. That will handle 100% of anyone's needs.

[srhcb]

I'm kind of a contrarian on the subject of knives.

While I'd love to have a set of Kyocera Ceramic Knives, the truth is that for general home use the plain old Chicago Cutlery are the ones I use 95% of the time.

Just wash and dry them immediatley after use and keep the edge straight and they're virtually indestructable. A magnetic strip is the best way to store them, but I just keep them upside-down in the wooden block.

SB (use the money you save to take Mom out to dinner!)

[menon1971]

Welcome. I would go for the following: a MAC Superior line Santuko for vegetables ($60), a decent stamped paring knife like a Henckels or a Wusthof (make sure they are German - $10-$15), a good ten inch chef's knife, stamped or forged, German (Messermeister, Henckels, or Wusthof, French (Sabatier), or Japanese (too many good ones to choose from, but Global or MAC would be a good place to start - you may want to consult with member Octaveman, for he seems to have this subject wired), whichever feels best in your hand ($50 - $120ish), and a cheap serrated bread knife - these can be had for under $20 at a restaurant supply place. This should get you in under the $200 mark with most applications covered.

[menon1971]

I'm kind of a contrarian on the subject of knives. 

While I'd love to have a set of Kyocera Ceramic Knives, the truth is that for general home use the plain old Chicago Cutlery are the ones I use 95% of the time.

Just wash and dry them immediatley after use and keep the edge straight and they're virtually indestructable.  A magnetic strip is the best way to store them, but I just keep them upside-down in the wooden block.

SB (use the money you save to take Mom out to dinner!)

←

I have heard that the quality of the CCs has declined now that they are made in China. Is this true in your experience? I gave my parents my old set of the old Walnut Tradition series (American). They were great knives and I like using them when I visit.

[phatj]

I'm looking for a knife (or knives) that will be good quality, low maintainence, and worthy of everyday kitchen jobs.

I'm afraid that "good quality" and "low maintenance" may be mutually exclusive. High-quality knives, while not difficult to maintain, do require frequent and correct attention. As someone else has noted, they should be washed and dried immediately after use. Also, they should be steeled before each use, and will need to be sharpened occasionally as well.

If you mother can't or won't put in the time to keep good knives in good condition, she probably shouldn't be given good knives. The fact that none of her existing knives are sharp makes me wonder. Maybe she just never learned how to take care of them?

Edited March 7, 2007 by phatj (log)

[WHT]

At the low end Russel`Dexter packs the most bang for the buck followed by Chicago Cuttlery. Stay away from anything with a "stay-sharp" (serrated) edge as they usualy ar junk.

A better idea might be a gift card for a good cuttlury store for her to get her own choise. If she is anything like my MIL almost any knife is an improvement.

Edited March 7, 2007 by WHT (log)

[nduran]

My mother is the exact same way with her knives, and it is pointless to try and get her anything nicer. She either won't use it because it's "too sharp" and she's afraid of it or she'll use it directly on granite, throw it in a drawer, and it'll be in the same condition as her other knives within a week. I of course do not know your mother personally, but based on what you've said, it doesn't sound like this would be a productive use of money for you. I agree that you should take her out for a $200 dinner somewhere nice instead.

[joiei]

How about taking your Mom out to a nice dinner and taking the knives she has now to be sharpened. Since she seems to perfer them. Not everyone is a knife freak like a lot of us tend to be.

[Fat Guy]

I must concur. First-rate knives are wasted on people who don't want them. I'd suggest going to Target and getting a set like this:

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-...asin=B00014B9ZA

You'll get a lot of decent-quality stamped knives for $59, they'll seem like the greatest knives in the world to most home cooks, and you can buy another gift with the remaining money. Surely she needs some pots and pans too.

[scubadoo97]

I'm looking for a knife (or knives) that will be good quality, low maintainence, and worthy of everyday kitchen jobs. My mother is no professional chef, but she does cook almost every day; so the low-quality knives are a huge nuisance.

First and foremost you should read the knife primer here at egullet.

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=26036

The 4 knives that come to mind that are basic are the

1. Chef knife 8-10"

2. Paring knife

3. Slicer

4. Boning knife

I would stick with a stainless metal over a high carbon since there is less maintenance. With a good stainless knife you can get a good edge that will last and a knife that will need little maintenance other than touch ups sharpening as long as you treat them well. Don't cut on granite or glass, don't put them in the dishwasher or throw them in a drawer without blade and tip protection. These will be knives that you can wash but don't have to dry immediately for fear of rusting. Brand names like.

Forschner Victorinox Fibrox

Wüsthof

Mac

J. A. Henckels

These are all good quality brands.

Also check out some of the Japenese knives. Tojiro knives are good very affordable knives

http://www.japanese-knife.com

You don't have to spend a fortune to slice an onion. Basic care in keeping your knives sharp goes a long way in improving your enjoyment of your knives.

[JohnL]

I must concur. First-rate knives are wasted on people who don't want them. I'd suggest going to Target and getting a set like this:

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-...asin=B00014B9ZA

You'll get a lot of decent-quality stamped knives for $59, they'll seem like the greatest knives in the world to most home cooks, and you can buy another gift with the remaining money. Surely she needs some pots and pans too.

←

Also worth noting for those in the New York area:

Both Henckels and Wusthof have factory warehouses in Westchester.

Henckel's is in Hawthorne (on RT 9A)

Wusthof is in Briarcliff manor (on RT 9 just south of Tarrytown)

Every fall (Nov/Dec) they have great sales where most first quality items are at least 50% off.

Some factory seconds are also offered).

At the Wusthof event I believe they will sharpen any knife (any brand) for free. (I would check on this).

I bought some great knives at Wusthof--some were 60% off retail! Including their top of the line forged knives.

An additional plus to the Henckel's location is they are very close to the Wine Enthusiast headquarters/store. Usually, in Nov and Dec they have a lot of wine related stuff on sale. (glasses decanters etc).

[Alex]

Knives can be an intensely personal thing. She'd need to be ready, willing, and able to deal with new ones, especially after 15 years with the old ones. They'd also need to fit her hand. If the element of surprise is not crucial, I'd just ask her if at some point in the near future she might like a new knife or two. (I'm a fan of Forschner for low-end knives.)

If she demurs, I like joiei's idea of getting the old ones sharpened. If she keeps her knives scattered about in a drawer, I'd get her a wooden knife holder that fits in the drawer. Or, if she's willing to have them on display, get her a standing knife block.

Here's one place for mail-order sharpening. There are many others, of course. They also sell a very nice Forschner 8-piece set, including a block, for $150.

[Octaveman]

Grave, you live with her so you should know which knives she uses the most. Just go get replacements for those same styles keeping in mind what she does with them. Cooking style goes a long way to determining what knives to get. If she bones chickens but doesn't have a boning knife, then get her one.

I agree with most people that to get great knives would be wasteful. You can get good knives that she'd be thrilled with and save some money. My recommendation for some quality knives is the Messermeister Meridian Elite. Styles should be based on what she uses right now. It's my guess that she could get plenty of use out of the following:

Meridian Elite 7" Santoku or 8" Chef $80

Meridian Elite Small parer (if she uses one) $40

Meridian Elite 6" utility $50

Generic Bread/Roast slicer $30

A block to hold them $40

Now I know that convenience and timing is an issue so if you didn't want to order online to get all this stuff then I suggest going down to a Bed Bath and Beyond type store that has a somewhat generous selection of choices and get a block set. Keep in mind the choices of knives in the set. You don't want to get a bunch of knives that will duplicate duties such as a 7" santoku and a 8" chef or a 5" petty and a 6" petty. The four knife styles I listed above are well rounded and can do pretty much anything a home cook would need them to do. You should be able to get 6-7 piece starter block sets for around $200. The Meridian Elite 7-piece basic set is right at $250 and has pretty much the same knives I listed above.

Hope this helps

Bob

[TheUnknownCook]

menon1971:

Chicago Cutlery was acquired by World Kitchen.

I own some American-made Chicago Cutlery knives. The quality of Chinese-made Chicago Cutlery knives is of lesser quality.

[DancingOnMyGrave]

Wow! Thank you so much for all of your advice, everybody. I'm definitely going to look into all the things you suggested.

As for my mom not taking care of her knives -- it's really more a matter of her not knowing the proper care of knives than her being too lazy to maintain them. Part of the present was going to include a "how-to" section in the card... Just with basic knife care and what she should do to make the present last.

Thanks so much for the wonderful advice, and if anybody has anything else to add, feel free!

~Grave

[TheUnknownCook]

DancingOnMyGrave:

If you do not want to buy Chinese-made cutlery, I would suggest that you consider possibly buying Brazilian-made Mundial or Tramontina.

Nonetheless, I suppose that you could just buy some Chinese-made Chicago Cutlery, etc. The Chinese-made cutlery is pretty much the same anyway regardless of whose brand name appears on the label. Many manufacturers simply have the Chinese label engineer their products.

After perusing Target's website, I see that the best value for the money, IMHO, would be the following: LamsonSharp 6-pc. Block Set-Stamped/ Rosewood Handle, or the LamsonSharp 10-pc. Block Set-Stamped/ Rosewood Handle.

(I put a few coats of boiled Linseed oil on my wood-handle knives for extra protection of the wood.)

I would not recommend the forged LamsonSharp 6-pc. Block Set, nor the 10-pc. Block Set, because:

1.), they are out of your budget,

2.), if you wanted to use an electric sharpener such as the Chef's Choice, you would not be able to sharpen the entire length of the blade. (Available at Target.com, KMart.com, Wal-Mart.com.)

I recommend the LamsonSharp cutlery because:

1.), they are Made in the U.S.A.,

2.), they come with a lifetime warranty,

3.), LamsonSharp has a Sharp for Life T program for avocational cooks such as your mother.

A vocational cook such as me could not take advantage of their program. Besides, I sharpen my own cutlery.

I would also suggest that you buy for your mother the book,

The Professional Chef's Knife Kit by the Culinary Institute of America(also available at Half.com).

Edited March 8, 2007 by TheUnknownCook (log)

[scubadoo97]

Wow! Thank you so much for all of your advice, everybody. I'm definitely going to look into all the things you suggested.

As for my mom not taking care of her knives -- it's really more a matter of her not knowing the proper care of knives than her being too lazy to maintain them. Part of the present was going to include a "how-to" section in the card... Just with basic knife care and what she should do to make the present last.

Thanks so much for the wonderful advice, and if anybody has anything else to add, feel free!

~Grave

←

I have always felt that you are more likely to take care of something of value. Given good knives there is high probability that your mom will take great pride in them and get lots of enjoyment from her new knives.

[Fat Guy]

The hope is that if she has good knives she'll take care of them, however over time I've come to realize that old-dog-new-tricks trumps pride-of-ownership almost every time. I've brokered many knife purchases but have only once -- once! -- successfully converted someone to decent cutlery habits (sharpening, honing, proper storage, using the right knife for the right job, etc.).

You've also got to realize that some people actually prefer dull, crummy knives. The greatest generation, in general, has awful cutlery habits. Cooks of my mother's generation are accustomed to feeling that sort of dull-blade resistance when they cut, and they like to be able to cut mushrooms against their palms or whatever. It's wacky, but it's really common.

[phaelon56]

I got so tired of the crappy knives at my mom's house that I bought her a wooden knife block set with some Chicago Cutlery knives. This was a good ten years ago (or longer) so they most likely preced the made-in-China stuff. They suit her needs just fine and she relies on me for periodic sharpening.

But the knife that still cuts better than the rest is the old Dexter - a 6" boning knife that was a post retirement cast-off from my dad's father - a butcher by trade. Grandpa wore it down so far over the years that the the1 1/2" width of the blad' is down to about 1/3" at the handle end. BUt it still holds a betetr edge than the newer knives.

Can't speak for others but my mom is in her 80's, a child of the Depression and not about to develop any good knife maintenance habits (nor does she do any exacting knife work in her cooking).

[menon1971]

I got so tired of the crappy knives at my mom's house that I bought her a wooden knife block set with some Chicago Cutlery knives. This was a good ten years ago (or longer) so they most likely preced the made-in-China stuff. They suit her needs just fine and she relies on me for periodic sharpening. 

But the knife that still cuts better than the rest is the old Dexter - a 6" boning knife that was a post retirement cast-off from my dad's father - a butcher by trade.  Grandpa wore it down so far over the years that the the1 1/2" width of the blad' is down to about 1/3" at the handle end. BUt it still holds a betetr edge than the newer knives.

Can't speak for others but my mom is in her 80's, a child of the Depression and not about to develop any good knife maintenance habits (nor does she do any exacting knife work in her cooking).

←

The old Dexter was probably made from virgin carbon steel, which may explain the quality. This is why old Sabatiers command such high prices these days.

[kristin_71]

I just placed an order with MAC Knives. I went to their site

MAC Knife Official Site and printed out the form etc. I had no idea that they offer a discount to people buying their knives ( I am not sure if this is if you buy direct from them) but I couldn't get it becuase I sent a check. Well I got a phone call from someone there and they are going to throw in two extra knives, a nice cheese knife and a boning knife. I was completely impressed by them. The guy I spoke with even gave me advice on how to cut difficult veggies (rutabagas, turnips) using my chef's knife. I know that I will do business with them again and encourage all I know to do the same.

[Torrilin]

I'm looking for a knife (or knives) that will be good quality, low maintainence, and worthy of everyday kitchen jobs. My mother is no professional chef, but she does cook almost every day; so the low-quality knives are a huge nuisance. What type of knife would you recommend? I read that a chef's knife and paring knife are good for starters, but it doesn't seem like those two alone would get everything done.

←

Well, really I get by with a single knife for everyday use. I have an el-cheapo Faberware chef's knife that I keep honed with a steel. In the near future, I need to purchase a couple stones or a sharpening system so I can keep it in better shape. When all is said and done, the sharpening and honing equipment will cost several times more than the knife. A second chef's knife is on the list, since my partner often shares the chopping with me for big projects. I doubt we'll buy much else in the way of knives in the foreseeable future, since we're both more comfortable with a chef's knife for everything.

More than one knife is certainly not needed. Wanted, maybe. My mom is a knife addict and loves having 2 chefs knives, 3-4 paring knives and a utility knife around. A lot depends on the cook's habits. Mom usually is sharing the kitchen with dad, and two cooks fighting over the lone chef's knife is a dreadful thing.

As everyone else has mentioned, old-dog-new-tricks is likely to be an issue. My mom can (and does) sharpen her own knives, and hates a dull blade. My dad cooks a lot also, and can sharpen knives. They taught me to be the same way. If your mom is used to the control a dull blade can give (and they do give control, just a different sort), she is not likely to enjoy a knife that's "too sharp". It won't be comfortable for her to use.

If her knives are uncomfortable for you to use, I'd recommend buying a smooth steel for yourself, and an inexpensive but reasonable quality chef's knife. The total should come out around $70, tops. Over the next year you'll want to add a fine/medium whetstone, and eventually a coarse and very coarse stone. Alternately, save up and get a sharpening system. Final total should be somewhere in the $200 ballpark, spread out over a year or two. That gives you a solid knife, and the tools to keep it in good shape for a lifetime. Since you live together, if she takes to using "your" knife, you can start to teach her how to keep hers in the same shape. If she's not interested, it's ok too. You've made a lifetime investment in your own comfort while cooking. Either way you *both* win. She gets to cook with comfortable tools, and you get to cook with comfortable tools. If you come to agree on what's comfortable, it's a bonus.

[paulraphael]

I got both my mom and my girlfriend Messermeister chef's knives. I chose these because they're excellent knives, and the handles work brilliantly for people with small hands. I also got them steels.

For my mom, who seems to think learning new tricks is the source of excruciating pain, I had to trick her. The present included a certificate for a lesson in how to use the knife, and (in fine print) notice that I was going to dispose of 90% of the useless knives cluttering up her kitchen.

[sandra]

If you don't want to tell her you are getting her knives, and have her "test" handles before you buy them, I would NOT buy Global knives -

I know a lot of people swear by them, but to me, they are the most uncomfortable handles in existence -