Retinning Copper Cookware

[maggiethecat]

I have a beautiful set of heavy copper cookwear; yes, the kind that was hand-rubbed by French virgins.

One teeny little problem: I haven't been able to use it for years. In my early days of becoming a cook, I (or he) didn't pay adequate attention to the instructions counselling the cook not to apply too much heat to an empty copper pan. Boy, that liquid tin sure looked pretty bubbling up and exposing the copper beneath.

I'd like to use this stuff again, not simply polish it twice a year. Does anyone have a source for retinning copper in the Chicago (Richard M. Daley, Mayor) area?

Or, all you Science Dudes, can this be done at home?

[guajolote]

I can't help but I know who to ask. I'll try to find out later this week.

[mikeycook]

From everything I have read, the chemicals used in copper retinning are not the type of thing you want to play around with.

I live in New York and had some pots tinned by a place in Newark, NJ (that used to be in New York). It took me several months (4) to get the pots back, so this time I am going to try Fantes in Philadelphia or Metal Man in Westchester County, NY. At one point I found a list of other places online (I know there is a place in Denver, Rocky Mountain Retinning, as well), but I can't seem to find it right now. I will keep looking.

[Busboy]

One restaurant I worked at used to just melt limp tin in the pot bottoms, and then swish it around until the sides were finished. It looked simple but I expect it's a "do not try this at home" project.

[Dave the Cook]

Yes, Lily, you can do it at home, but you'll probably ruin your manicure. Are you still interested?

You'll need:

- steel wool

- tin solder

- flux (you can get it where you get the solder)

- a heavy leather pad

- something to lubricate the pad (try to find an old tallow candle, or hunt down some plumber's tallow -- your best bet is a hardware store in a gentrifying neighborhood that has a lot of old plumbing in it)

- an area where you can heat the whole pan (not just the bottom) to about 600 F

In a nutshell:

Scour the interior of pan with the steel wool

Coat the scoured area with the flux

Melt the solder in the pan. Tin melts at about 450 F (as you discovered, though the solder melting point might be somewhat different). You want the pan evenly heated so the tin will flow over the entire surface.

Smooth the solder around the inside of the pan, using the leather pad. Keep the pan hot so that the solder flows smoothly, but not so hot that it thins out. (Think about how thin oil gets when you overheat it.)

Piece of cake.

Allow to cool naturally (in other words, don't dunk it in ice water).

Edited September 8, 2003 by Dave the Cook (log)

[maggiethecat]

an area where you can heat the whole pan (not just the bottom) to about 600 F

Good God, Archie, you really are the Science Guy! Thank you so much for this.

I am sorely tempted to try . Really. Just can't think of a way to determine whether a pan has reached 600 degrees. Steel mill, perhaps?

[MatthewB]

an area where you can heat the whole pan (not just the bottom) to about 600 F

Good God, Archie, you really are the Science Guy! Thank you so much for this.

I am sorely tempted to try . Really. Just can't think of a way to determine whether a pan has reached 600 degrees. Steel mill, perhaps?

Just send the pans to Dave the Cook.

[maggiethecat]

Just send the pans to Dave the Cook.

You are so clever, Matthew! Rumour has it Dave has more thermometers and probes than other men have golf clubs and socks.

Can't handle the shipping charges, though. These suckers are heavy!

[Dave the Cook]

an area where you can heat the whole pan (not just the bottom) to about 600 F

Good God, Archie, you really are the Science Guy! Thank you so much for this.

I am sorely tempted to try . Really. Just can't think of a way to determine whether a pan has reached 600 degrees. Steel mill, perhaps?

Just send the pans to Dave the Cook.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post on eGullet do-it-yourself threads.

Some gas grills can hit in excess of 700 degrees, as can charcoal fires. I've heard Big Green Egg folk claim up to 850 or so.

[MatthewB]

Just send the pans to Dave the Cook.

You are so clever, Matthew! Rumour has it Dave has more thermometers and probes than other men have golf clubs and socks.

Can't handle the shipping charges, though. These suckers are heavy!

Ship COD.

[slkinsey]

Not in Chicago, but:

Atlantic Retinning and Metal Refinishing

Rocky Mountain Retinning Company

Fante's Kitchen Wares Shop

A look through the Chicago Yellow Pages brought me to:

Archer Tinning & Retinning

[aaustin]

Call your local Sur la Table store---I used to work at one (though not in your area) and we always had great resources for our customers.

[mikeycook]

Yes, Lily, you can do it at home, but you'll probably ruin your manicure. Are you still interested?

It sounds like you are the right person to ask a related question. I bought an old (1820s?), large copper sauce pan (actually I think it is a fireplace pot) and it was made in the older style of fusing two pieces of copper together (the bottom is one piece and the sides are another piece.) While cleaning it out, it became obvious it had been repaired (some kind of putty? in the bottom) and when I removed some of the repair material (it was falling out anyway), it became clear that the pot now leaks. Is this something I can repair myself? What should I use? Should I fill the gap with tin or something else? I will need to retin it anyway and may choose the self-help option you describe. Any thoughts?

I have been told I might not want to repair it if I feel it has more antique value, but I have little value in copper I can't use.

Edited September 8, 2003 by mikeycook (log)

[Bux]

I've come too late to this thread to be as amusing as I'd like to be. Of course you can retin the pot. I suspect you can use the kit I bought twenty, or more, years ago after I priced out what retinning a roaster might cost. I had actually had several pots retinned before, but as this one was a little bigger and retinning seemed to be a dying art, I was a bit taken aback by the estimate. I suspect that today, that price would appear to be a bargain. I've never quite had the time, or psychic calm to at tend to this project and by now I have three or four copper pots of various sizes and qualities that would be decorative objects if I ever polished them. I don't polish copper. It's thankless task. In the meantime I've pretty well replaced most of those pots with All Clad with an exterior finish of exposed aluminum--which I also don't polish. A large part of my decision to go with All Clad or some other stainless interior rather than tin lined copper was less the difference in cost of the new pots, but that retinning didn't seem to be much cheaper than buying All Clad pots and it was clear that the way I used my pots, that retinning was going to happen several times in my life.

Besides fear and laziness, there was one other thing that bothered me about retinning my pots for use--as I've never seen the tin go down the drain when I washed the pot, I've assumed it went into the stews I've had from those pots. Perhaps it's as non reactive as gold and has left my body the same way as the gold leaf on some super decadent chocolate desserts, but no one's told me that yet. Okay science guys, where is that tin today, in the sewer or my bones?

[slkinsey]

A large part of my decision to go with All Clad or some other stainless interior rather than tin lined copper was less the difference in cost of the new pots, but that retinning didn't seem to be much cheaper than buying All Clad pots and it was clear that the way I used my pots, that retinning was going to happen several times in my life.

Exactly the reason to get stainless steel-lined copper!

Besides fear and laziness, there was one other thing that bothered me about retinning my pots for use--as I've never seen the tin go down the drain when I washed the pot, I've assumed it went into the stews I've had from those pots. Perhaps it's as non reactive as gold and has left my body the same way as the gold leaf on some super decadent chocolate desserts, but no one's told me that yet. Okay science guys, where is that tin today, in the sewer or my bones?

There are no known functions for tin in humans. In fact, it is sometimes considered a mildly toxic mineral. The good news is that there are no known chronic or serious diseases from tin exposure or ingestion. Furthermore, tin is poorly absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract -- probably less than 5% -- the rest being excreted primarily in the feces. Since the average diet contains somewhere around 2 mg of tin/day, there is little to worry about where tin-lined cookware is concerned (provided the tin alloy does not contain lead).

[Richard Kilgore]

Maggie - Williams-Sonoma also has a list of re-tiiners that they recommend.

[maggiethecat]

Maggie - Williams-Sonoma also has a list of re-tiiners that they recommend.

Thanks, Richard. I'm within four miles of a W-S, and I'll definitely check it out.

[guajolote]

northwest cutlery (my knife guy ) said they can send your pots out for retinning

his rough estimate was about $40 for a ten inch saute pan

[cajungirl]

I was fortunate enough to find copper cookware at an estate sale a couple of weeks ago. One of the pieces...a gratin pan has signs of wear and the copper is showing through. Is this safe to continue to cook in? Also, what would you think the lining is made of? I know many people use their copper cookware as decorative pieces, but I really want to use mine to cook. Any help and/or insight will help.

Edited February 14, 2007 by cajungirl (log)

[paulraphael]

The lining is almost certainly tin. There are a few people who can retin it for you; they usually charge by the square inch or something like that. Bridge Kitchenware in NYC would be a place to ask.

It's safe to use as long as you're putting acidic foods in it. If there's a significant amount of copper showing through, even something like a berry coulis can leach an unhealthy amount of copper out of the pan. And your dish will tast like a mouthful of pennies.

[Smithy]

Cajungirl, please describe the interior so the cogniscenti here can make more educated guesses about what the lining is. Better still would be a picture. My guess is that you want to be careful using this pan in the oven with the copper showing through.

There has been some discussion over the years about copper cookware, what it may be lined with, how to take care of it, and under what circumstances it's okay (or not) to use. From what I've been able to pick up in a quick reading, you want to be careful of using a copper pan with reactive (acidic) foods or high temperatures, because copper can poison you if you ingest too much of it. You can get the pan re-lined. There are some suggestions about who does it in the threads.

Here are the threads I picked up:

Copper Pans, information wanted on copper pans This thread in turn points to

Antique Copper Pans, what's the inside lined with? This is the thread with a lot of discussion about potential health risks as well as good uses of copper cookware.

There are probably other good threads around here too. Even better will be if someone (Andiesenji? bleudauvergne? jsolomon? You listening?) chips in with actual knowledge instead of a bunch of links.

Good luck!

Edited to say what I meant, and not what I wrote, that fortunately nobody quoted because they probably knew what I meant anyway.

Edited February 14, 2007 by Smithy (log)

[cajungirl]

Thank you, helpful information. Unfortunately, I'm photo impaired so I can't show y'all.

[andiesenji]

Call

F. Nicholas Retinning

Re-lining with tin your worn French copper pots and pans.

4641 Telegraph Road

Los Angeles, CA

323/263-0028

He does a terrific job and in much less time than anyplace else I have used.

I have a lot of copper cookware and have used several retinning services since the early 70s. This one is the best.

[menon1971]

Just curious, but what are the markings on the pan? I am a geek for that kind of stuff.

I have had two pieces, a sauce pan and a saute pan retinned by Rocky Mountain Retinning (http://www.rockymountainretinning.com/copper.htm) and can recommend them without reservation. They did a fine job and had the pieces back within a few weeks. They were also the least expensive of the sites I perused on the web.

[Kerry Beal]

I purchased this lovely old pot from e-bay and when it arrived I realize that it has what is called a 'dovetailed' seam along the side and on the bottom which appears to be brass. I'm comfortable with boiling sugar in copper, but I'm not so sure about the safety aspect with the brass dovetailing. Anyone want to hazard an opinion on this?