Chef's Table.

[Lord Michael Lewis]

From the first first few posts in this thread , I got the immediate feeling I was in a group that secretly hated fine cooking

sorry just wanted to highlight this

S

Thanks for that, Simon. As I generally skip Bux's posts, I missed this.

Bux, could you support this assertion?

[Bux]

How do you highlight passages...

I've been meaning to talk to you about that.

Actually you can't highlight text to quote, but you can highlight the text you don't need and delete it in the lower reply window where the quote appears. It's also possible to use the "quote" button above the reply box to quote any text you want to paste into your reply from off the site or another message. Just be aware that the latter method doesn't get the name of the original poster included.

[Chef/Writer Spencer]

I'm there amigo. Thanks for that.

[Bux]

From the first first few posts in this thread , I got the immediate feeling I was in a group that secretly hated fine cooking

sorry just wanted to highlight this

S

Thanks for that, Simon. As I generally skip Bux's posts, I missed this.

Bux, could you support this assertion?

Support my intuition?

[Kim WB]

IS the Chefs Table "concept" quickly becoming a popular marketing scam? Sure. No doubt.

Worse: it's working. Publicists are now routinely telling their clients to add kitchen tables into their restaurant plans, and it's fast becoming standard operating procedure at even the mediocre-restaurant level.

Steven, I agree with your assertion that it is becoming a marketing tool...but I just don't get the opening prequalification: Worse.

In an industry that is difficult to turn a profit in, especailly in a city that is highly competitive, isn't marketing an acceptable tool to get people interested in your restaurant? Isn't it reasonable to assume that there is a market for not-as-serious-as you diners who still might enjoy the "show"? And theat, after the foodies come and go and come and go and then come, but less frequently, those tools, like a kitchen table, fill the seats and pay the bills?

I get the impression that you feel that only the strongest restaurants should survive..but then you have lamented the closing of a place with a wonderful chef that didn't get the recognition or accolades, or diners, that he and the place deserved...I guess it's another thread..but what kind of marketing is acceptable, and what isn't? If Kitchen tables are a "gimmick", what are wine tasting dinners? Can a 2 star advertize in NYMag, but not a three? What about hiring media consultants, restaurant marketing and consulting firms... Where's the line drawn, in your opinion?

[Lord Michael Lewis]

From the first first few posts in this thread , I got the immediate feeling I was in a group that secretly hated fine cooking

sorry just wanted to highlight this

S

Thanks for that, Simon. As I generally skip Bux's posts, I missed this.

Bux, could you support this assertion?

Support my intuition?

I applaud your honesty.

[Fat Guy]

IS the Chefs Table "concept" quickly becoming a popular marketing scam? Sure. No doubt.

Worse: it's working. Publicists are now routinely telling their clients to add kitchen tables into their restaurant plans, and it's fast becoming standard operating procedure at even the mediocre-restaurant level.

Steven, I agree with your assertion that it is becoming a marketing tool...

I don't think I said it's a marketing tool. I think I was agreeing with Vic's assertion that it's a marketing scam.

As for social Darwinism in restauration and the acceptable boundaries of marketing, please do start another thread -- it would no doubt be an interesting discussion.

[herbacidal]

They're probably teaching it in the hotel schools and at the CIA. For crying out loud they have one of these things at Smith & Wollensky.

screw that, at least smith and wollensky is somewhat acceptable.

buca di beppo is using them.

next we'll see krispy kremes using them.

mcdonald's wouldn't be entertaining enough.

[mcdowell]

next we'll see krispy kremes using them.

Actually, the Krispy Kreme stores come close w/ the wall length glass around their kitchen and, at least in the ones I've been in, tables right across.

I've even had the "chef" come out give me samples right off the conveyer belt (SOP there, I think).

[tommy]

next we'll see krispy kremes using them.

mcdonald's wouldn't be entertaining enough.

the mcdonald's on 42th street in time square (NY) has a donut making station in full view of the street behind the big window, he said, tying it all together.

although, i rarely see donuts coming from the thing. which i think is a good thing.

[mcdowell]

I can't believe that nobody's mentioned the prototype of chef's tables everywhere: The Waffle House.

[Bux]

Was that Benihana, where your table was the chef's table? It's just that those star chefs can't be bothered to come to your table.

[Schielke]

Do you think that a chef's table automatically implies aspirations toward celebrety chefdom? Personally, I view the benefit of these kind of tables as being able to watch the cooking and what goes into your dishes. I dont want to sit there for the status of being 10 ft from the chef, just to watch the kitchen.

If a chef's table (I think it should be Kitchen Table) were offered to you on the night of your reservation and it did not have any extra strings attached, would you reject the opportunity? I can understand wanting to do so if a quieter ambiance is desired, but otherwise?

Ben

[tommy]

Was that Benihana, where your table was the chef's table? It's just that those star chefs can't be bothered to come to your table.

sushi bars too. just walk up and force yourself in the chef's face. they love it.

[T. Brooks]

Was that Benihana, where your table was the chef's table? It's just that those star chefs can't be bothered to come to your table.

There's a great tapas place in Madison where during the morning, the chef prepares his specialties, preps the paella, fabricates whatever items on charcuterie he needs for that night, and when service rolls around, leaves his Sous to handle the kitchen.

I'm under the impression that so many people sport food wood when they get the special treatment from the chef by getting a table in the kitchen. This guy up here gets it right by juggling overseeing of the line each night with visiting each table as their food comes out.

The restaurant is full each night, and i think that rather than tabling it up with special attention in the kitchen, if you can be a poster child for your restaurant with street cred, more power to you. Just don't exploit it by giving a feel of exclusivity to a certain privileged set of the population.

At what point does one become cynical enough to justify creating food for the paying, and not food for all? I understand from meeting and hearing about all these different chefs that many of them are genuinely engaging and enthusiastic personalities about what they prepare and who they serve. Moreover, I also understand that the dollar reigns supreme, but when is it acceptable to compromise one's artistic integrity to cater to the elite?

Absolutely. Have the open kitchen. Give everyone the opportunity to see what goes on. Is it only for financial interest that restaurants do this, or is it to spank the collective monkey of the "discriminating diner"*

*You know who I'm talking about. The ones who invite you over to see the new Marble countertop and imported butcher block made from driftwood... The ones who have kitchens that they'll never use. The ones who have parties to show off the delicious bruschetta topping that they can make with their new Globe International Banana Brunoise Machine.

That's extreme, but it's who I see this trend applying to. If you need me, my cynical ass will be over in the corner behind the Chef's Table with my scimitar and a tri-stone.

[Bux]

If nothing else, this thead has brought back an old memory of a diner open 24 hours a day that I used to frequent in the wee hours of the night. It couldn't have been the food that drew me there as I don't recall going there when anyplace else in town was open, but I liked to watch the cook make burgers and reheat apple turnovers on the grill. The fascination with watching your food being made is not limited to star chefs. Here's an open question. If you go to a diner and take a seat at the counter, would you choose one in front of where you could watch someone cooking.

[Kim WB]

. If you go to a diner and take a seat at the counter, would you choose one in front of where you could watch someone cooking.

Hell yeah. Especially in an inebriated state of mind, where somehow I find conversation about my grilled Taylor Pork roll to be the focus of every one in the room..seriously, yes..I studiously watch servers, busboys and any glimpse of the staff..and if given the option, would watch the kitchen as well..unless the temperment of the occassion did not merit that kind of aproach to dining...if , for example, its business or romance.

Edited May 17, 2003 by Kim WB (log)

[pixelchef]

If you go to a diner and take a seat at the counter, would you choose one in front of where you could watch someone cooking.

Yes, but because it wouldn't cost me anything. If they were gonna charge me an extra $10 to sit and watch the guy flip burgers, I wouldn't do it.

[Kim WB]

If you go to a diner and take a seat at the counter, would you choose one in front of where you could watch someone cooking.

Yes, but because it wouldn't cost me anything. If they were gonna charge me an extra $10 to sit and watch the guy flip burgers, I wouldn't do it.

pixel, sorry, am not familiar with what part of the country you are from..here in the NJ/NY region the chef's table are either competitive prix fix or no extra charge,,,is it much different in your neck of the woods?

[pixelchef]

Oh, sorry, I didn't realize. I'm from Ontario. The only experience I have with sitting at the "chef's table" was at Susur, where it's actually a sort of separate room that looks on to the kitchen. It's considered the 'chef's table', though. And it was a substantial additional fee. I didn't realize it was an experience that came free of charge in most restaurants. In this case, I would very much enjoy it.

[Basildog]

If i can't fit my new stove in my kitchen, i'll just leave it in the middle of the restaurant, and all the tables can be chef's tables!

I'll staff it with egullet members doing stages, we can operate a BYO policy with food...you bring it, you cook it....oh this is a winner!

[Bux]

we can operate a BYO policy with food...you bring it, you cook it....oh this is a winner!

Sorry Basildog, watching myself cook just seems kind of creepy. Especially in public.

[Bux]

Yes, but because it wouldn't cost me anything.  If they were gonna charge me an extra $10 to sit and watch the guy flip burgers, I wouldn't do it.

The original post asked

Why would anyone want to sit at a chef's table? I just don't understand this kind of chef-worship. It's a meal for God's sakes, and you're paying -- to sit in the kitchen

I read as you're paying to eat in a restaurant, not paying extra to sit in the kitchen. I suppose the practice and the cost varies considerably. In some restaurants there is no separate charge, but there may be a minimum, so it's economical to take the table for a party of eight, but perhaps an extravagant splurge for a couple. Then again some people drink more expensive wines than I do.

I suppose the question is two part. Why would anyone want to sit at a chef's table - and - why would anyone pay a surcharge. Maybe it has more parts as there's quite a difference between what are called chef's or kitchen tables from restaurant to restaurant. In many cases it's really no different from dining in a private room with the exception that it has a view of the kitchen. I suppose the ultimate chef's table would have a curtain you could draw to snub the chef.

[tommy]

bux raises a point that i've been confused about: do some chef's tables cost more? i've never come across that. perhaps i'm going to the right places.

[Andy Lynes]

The chfs table at Gordon Ramsay Claridges costs £700.00 at dinner for up to 6 people. Which makes it approx. £116 pounds a head albeit for a special menu. As a la carte is £50.00 in the main dining room, that makes it twice as expensive.