Gay Restaurants

[Fat Guy]

Gay bars are a well-known phenomenon, and of course a percentage of the customers and staff at most any restaurant (or anyplace else for that matter) will be gay, but I'm wondering whether cities other than New York have actual gay restaurants.

For example, there's a restaurant on East 58th Street called Townhouse. It is a self-proclaimed gay restaurant. The New York Times refers to it as an "upscale gay restaurant." I assume most of the people eating there, and most of the staff, are gay. The food, however, has no sexual orientation -- just as a gin-and-tonic at a gay bar is the same as a gin-and-tonic at any bar.

I'm interested in learning more about this phenomenon. A search on Google revealed -- you guessed it -- http://www.gayrestaurants.com/ but that site seems to be a listing of restaurants recommended by or for gay travelers. I'm more interested in actual, bona fide gay restaurants.

[macrosan]

I remember waiting in line to be seated at a restaurant in Bleecker Street in the West Village, with my wife, when suddenly I became aware that she was the only woman in the line. When I looked inside I could only see maybe two women out of the 40 or so people sitting at tables. She noticed too, because she said to me "We'll be waiting for ever, let's go somewhere else" and off we went. I was later told by gay friends that this place was generally considered a "gay restaurant" and almost entirely frequented by men. There's specialization for you !!! Those friends told me there was another similar place (frequented by men and women) nearby in the West Village.

I have never been sure whether heterosexuals are totally welcome in such places including bars) or whether I would be viewed with a degree of suspicion or hostility. So I have to confess I tend to avoid them once I know where they are, simply because I prefer to know I'm welcome.

Presumably, if a bar or restaurant proclaims itself as a gay establishment, that would mean that non-gays aren't welcome.

[SWoodyWhite]

I doubt that you would be refused service simply for being straight, macrosan. Most gay bars and restaurants are more tolerant than that (although I do know of a few leather bars with a strict dress code). You might be refused service for bahaving badly, but that doesn't fit the profile of anyone I've encountered here at eGullet.

There was a time, in the 50's and 60's, when gay restaurants were something of a necessity. If two gay men, or two lesbians, wanted to have a nice dinner, they might not get served, or at best be seated at a table in the center of the room instead of a booth. So, we had places of our own. I can remember the Carriage Trade, the Toy Tiger, the Garden District, the Academy, the Frog Pond, David's, the Little Shrimp, the Venture Inn, all in the Los Angeles area, my home town. Of these, only the Venture Inn seems to be in business any more.

The food, by and large, ran to second level Continental. Oh, it was good enough, but never quite stellar. Then again, anyone who wanted to dine at a top, five-star establishment knew better than to take his (or her) date, knew to make the occasion social, not romantic. More often, it was the atmosphere (and the drinks) that made the gay restaurant a decent place. Piano bars and gay restaurants were a good combination. As my life-partner, Bruce, has just pointed out to me, these were also places where gay men and lesbians could take their families; if Mother was around and the boys wanted to show her a good evening, the decorum was always of the sort that no one would feel embarrassed.

But then the Seventies hit, and with them the real beginnings of gay liberation. I know, "Stonewall" was in '69, but the idea took a few years to catch hold, even in California. The group that embraced this new emancipated outlook was, of course, the younger generation (including myself). This was a group that could not quite yet afford the pricy restaurants, was more inclined to eat at home or grab a quick bite, and spend more time and money at the newer gay bars with DJs playing the latest hits. The gay restaurants more and more became the turf of the older crowd. I remember at the Garden District, the owners having been conned into sponsoring a gay softball team one year (another phenomenon), when the team for which I was scorekeeper joined the Garden District's players at the restaurant's bar. The regulars were rather nonplussed by this rowdy and youthful crowd, fresh from the ballfield. The glare I received from Richard Deacon, the late actor and cookbook author, was particularly memorable! The two generations just didn't mix.

And the world changed. Somehow, the non-gay restaurants began to realize that gay dollars folded the same way as straight ones. We were more welcome than we had been before. By the time Bruce and I met, not quite twenty years ago, there were few if any problems with dining in any establishment in Long Beach. In fact, we've always been quite welcome. But with this came another change: the gay restaurants of old began to close, because the need for them was disappearing, as were their patrons. Add the toll from AIDS, and there was little chance for the old-style gay restaurant to survive.

Are there any more gay restaurants? Sure, but their customers are different. Hamburger Mary's is a nationwide chain, targeted primarily at the young gay community, but not exclusively. As I noted, the Venture Inn is still in operation. Where the Toy Tiger was now can be found a piano bar called the Other Side, but I don't think they're still running a restaurant. There's a place called Ozz in Buena Park which combines a supper club, cabaret, and discotheque, which is nice if not outstanding. But a place called Cha Cha Cha in Long Beach, which tried to target gay diners on Tuesdays, has folded entirely. The community's needs are different now.

That isn't to say there aren't some who still prefer a gay environment, such as a bar or restaurant. It's certainly a better bet for meeting new people with similar interests than at a straight bar or restaurant, for example. Bruce and I are planning on moving cross-country sometime soon to Rehoboth Beach, DE, known as a heavily gay resort town. We're moving to Delaware to be closer to his family. We're moving to Rehoboth for the community. But I can't think of a single restaurant in Rehoboth that would not welcome a straight family or couple, the same as they would welcome a gay couple or family.

[macrosan]

I found your post hugely encouraging, Woody. It still amazes me when I hear people describing the prejudices to which gays have been subjected, and I should know better. Until I read your post, I wasn't thinking in terms of restaurants actually refusing to serve gays, or even treating gays as second-class customers; I was concentrating more on my perception that gays simply preferred to be in each others' company. But in fact I'm delighted to hear that the defensive need for "gay restaurants" seems to have disappeared.

Incidentally, my concern would not be with being "refused service" but just with being made to feel unwelcome (which is in my view worse than a simple, but at least frank, refusal). You've set my mind at rest, and maybe I'll go back and try that restaurant in Bleecker .....

[tommy]

Incidentally, my concern would not be with being "refused service" but just with being made to feel unwelcome (which is in my view worse than a simple, but at least frank, refusal). You've set my mind at rest, and maybe I'll go back and try that restaurant in Bleecker .....

I've been made to feel very welcome at lesbian bars in NYC. in fact, i suppose i was treated like a novelty of sorts. i was told that it's generally fine, especially if you come with a woman.

however, i've not spent much time in gay bars for men, save the time i walked into that place on 9th and 49th (or so) not realizing what it was (and got some cock-eyed looks).

back on the topic of gay restaurants, i can't say that i've come across any in my travels. "gay friendly," sure, lots of them. but that's a different distinction.

Edited April 28, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Chef/Writer Spencer]

Gay bars are a well-known phenomenon, and of course a percentage of the customers and staff at most any restaurant (or anyplace else for that matter) will be gay, but I'm wondering whether cities other than New York have actual gay restaurants.

For example, there's a restaurant on East 58th Street called Townhouse. It is a self-proclaimed gay restaurant. The New York Times refers to it as an "upscale gay restaurant." I assume most of the people eating there, and most of the staff, are gay. The food, however, has no sexual orientation -- just as a gin-and-tonic at a gay bar is the same as a gin-and-tonic at any bar.

I'm interested in learning more about this phenomenon. A search on Google revealed -- you guessed it -- http://www.gayrestaurants.com/ but that site seems to be a listing of restaurants recommended by or for gay travelers. I'm more interested in actual, bona fide gay restaurants.

tell me you didn't say bona fide steven!

[Bux]

Macrosan makes a good point. It may be worse to be admitted and made to feel uncomfortable than to be denied service in the first place. That assumes you have an an alternate place in which to dine that can provide the same experience. I support the laws we have regarding entrance to places of public accommodation here in the U.S., although they may not always go far enough to assure all citizens the same services and treatment.

From an ethical standpoint, all restaurants should be open to all people regardless of sexual orientation, and I don't care if you believe it's an orientation one chooses or gets at birth. However, I find it less offensive for a restaurant to serve a minority and exclude the majority when it's been obvious that the particular minority group suffers from discrimination. In an ideal world, the best restaurants would be about the food and the best chefs would only be interested in attracting connoisseurs of good food and not diners who support the chef or owner's lifestyle.

[Busboy]

Here in DC there are a number of restaurants that could be termed "Gay restaurants," right off Dupont Circle, friendly neighborhood places of no particular merit note -- burger or spaghetti places, mostly. I think they're gay mostly by tradition, it's a mixed neightborhood and no one seems really to care who go into where. But if you go into (the legendary) Annie's Paramount you're probably in a 95% gay crowd, while next door at Peppers it's 50-50; the bar is straight while the dining room mixed. One place has a rainbow flag in the window, but I doubt that anyone would feel excluded. I've gotten a few looks at Annie's, which is one of the few place to get dinner after midnight in the area, but nothing hostile. They probably trying to figure out if my wife and I were confused tourists.

[nerissa]

A professor I took a class with, George Chauncy wrote a book about gays created their own social spaces in New York...it is a landmark book: Gay New York: Gender, Urban Culture, and the Making of the Gay Male World, 1890-1940.

I quote from his text: "And in the early 1930s a speakeasy on East Twenty-eight street seeking gay patronage noted suggestively that it was located in the 'Gay 20s.' Similarily, in 1951 the Cyrano Restaurant let gay men know they were welcome while revealing nothing to others by advertising itself as the place "Where the Gay Set Meet for Dinner."*

*Before the term "gay" was only recognized within the subculture.

Chicago has Boys Town-- I think a couple of the restaurants, but not all, might be understood as gay bars, though not as blatanly as Roscoes.

[NeroW]

SWoodyWhite, excellent post.

Thank you!

[SobaAddict70]

Steve,

In NYC, there are a few places that while aren't marketed or categorized as "gay restaurants" per se, might as well be for all intents and purposes. (Btw, the Townhouse also has a bar adjacent to it, of the same name.)

Universal Grill springs to mind -- it closed a few years back -- noted for sending out birthday cakes with the entire staff singing Happy Birthday to the lucky recipients. Quite campy and fun.

Eighteenth and Eighth is another. La Maison de Sade is a third. There's a place on West 23rd between Seventh and Eighth Avenues in Chelsea that I can't remember the name of. Florent, in the meatpacking district. Lucky Cheng's, in the East Village. The Dish, on Eighth Avenue, in Chelsea.

Cheers,

Soba

[Suzanne F]

When we lived in DC and worked at a theater near Dupont Circle, we (He Who Only Eats and I) went to Annie's a lot. The only time we had the slightest bit of trouble was when we inadvertently tried to jump the line. Well, we deserved the nasty looks then, for being so rude! Then again, HWOE is pretty cute

To me, it was far more uncomfortable walking into a "tavern" in Montreal 30 years ago with a bunch of male friends -- at that time, taverns were male-only. Believe me, a barful of hostile heteros is worse than anything!

[Lyle]

My wife is an actress, and actually gets paid by a theatre as well.

The stereotype holds true.

Plus she's a hag...(she just gave me telephonic permission to print that)

So lunch for us about twice a week is at a rainbow-emboldended restaurant. I can remember several times she was the only woman in the restaurant...and I was the only poorly shaved fool. Oddly, most every restaurant massively populated by the man serves, er, bar food. Hunky's is a very good burger joint, surrounded by other burger joints and gay bars serving, well, burgers (if you aren't as familiar with the Dallas gay bar scene as I am...god bless you...try J.R.'s or Sue Ellen's, both connected, serving their respective sex, as well as a really good burger). Close by in the same district is Bronx, Stephen Pyles first executive haunt, the only place serving a predominantly gay crowd serving something other than bar food. But I woulden't call it a "gay restaurant".

So two relevant observations:

1) The "gay restaurant", at least the ones serving bar food, get it right. Not the best in the world, but more consistent and good than a typical neighborhood haunt. It may, though, also be indicative of the upscale nature of the neighborhood in question. and..

2) I have recieved contrasting service at ALL but one restaurant in question (Ciudad the exception). When dining without my wife but with a friend (male) the service is more friendly, flirty, and energized. I suppose it is the server's realization of what he believes the customer expects. I actually had a similar conversation with a friend at lunch last year. The next lunch I took off my ring, with wife present, and role played with our dining companions. Not only was our server more flirty with me, but took a particular liking to my wife...what a hag.

I really don't think there's a place I'd feel uncomfortable going, though, only with my beard.

Tommy, is that place on 9th and 49th (or so) a total dive? We walked in last year someplace around there and saw two fist fights in about five minutes. The most violent gay dive I've ever entered.

I suspect I've said too much...

[tommy]

Tommy, is that place on 9th and 49th (or so) a total dive?  We walked in last year someplace around there and saw two fist fights in about five minutes.

for sure. that's what drew us to it.

[Jaymes]

however, i've not spent much time in gay bars for men, save the time i walked into that place on 9th and 49th (or so) not realizing what it was (and got some cock-eyed looks).

And we all know how unsettling that can be.

[bigbear]

.....

Bruce and I are planning on moving cross-country sometime soon to Rehoboth Beach, DE, known as a heavily gay resort town.  We're moving to Delaware to be closer to his family.  We're moving to Rehoboth for the community.  But I can't think of a single restaurant in Rehoboth that would not welcome a straight family or couple, the same as they would welcome a gay couple or family.

Start off with Dogfish Head Brewery. I have no idea what their food is like, but their brews are up there.

Dogfish Head

[jeniac42]

Columbus used to have a restaurant called Out On Main that was staffed by and, I think, primarily targeted at the gay community. It closed last year, though. I'm not sure that there are any other such restaurants in town.

We do seem, at the restaurant where I work, to get a lot of gay and lesbian couples coming in for dinner. Our manager/part-owner is gay, so obviously it's a friendly environment. I've had more than a few tables where the couples have felt free to hold hands, cuddle in the booths (which are practically custom-made for doing so), etc., so I'm glad the comfort level is high enough in our place.

I believe nobody in the Short North area, which is the arts district as well as the area with the most rainbow-bedecked houses, would bat an eyelash in a restaurant over a same-sex couple. To which I say hurrah.

Very good and informative post, SWoodyWhite.

[Rail Paul]

In an ideal world, the best restaurants would be about the food and the best chefs would only be interested in attracting connoisseurs of good food and not diners who support the chef or owner's lifestyle.

A restaurant which sets its goal on serving the needs of its customers is heading in the right direction. Since few businesses are blessed with a surplus of customers, you need to attract more, and retain those whom you have. If gay folks aren't welcome in other places, you fill that niche with a place that does the job. If your decor, your food, or your staff is especially welcoming to gay folks, or musicians, or older customers, that's great.

You create a welcoming environment, and provide a respectful staff. If you do your job right, the buzz will bring in more customers. More money, more jobs, more satisfied customers. Many businesses find the need to broaden their base, and attract an expanded mix of customers, while not alientating their core establishment

If that doesn't work, like Tommy suggests, you can stage a fight every few minutes, and attract all the hockey fans in the area for the price of a beer. Gay or straight, it doesn't matter, it's the fight that counts...

[plax]

I think my experience of restaurants parallels that of the rest of the responses here; I can go pretty much anywhere in South Florida with my partner without attracting any unexpected reactions. There used to be a place on South Beach, just off Lincoln Road, called Jeffrey's, that was well-known as a "gay date" restaurant-- you could stare soulfully into each other's eyes, hold hands or steal the occasional kiss without raising any eyebrows. The same folks own a place called Magnum off the 79th Street Causeway that I've heard has the same ambiance, but I have not visited it.

There are certainly restaurants where we've seen a primarily gay clientele, but that's been in gay-friendly neighborhoods such as South Beach and Wilton Manors. There used to be a place on US1 in WM called Nickels where we went often for brunch, and the clientele ran 50-50. But I believe it's a neighborhood thing more than anything else.

Neil

[Busboy]

Recall, too, that for many people the quality of the food is a secondary consideration. Young, single or childless couples of any orientation living downtown -- especially if they're in a small apartment -- see the neighborhood spots as extensions of their living rooms. Finding a place where you can afford to get a bite three or four nights a week, that has a welcoming atmosphere and counts your friends among its customers is probably more important a lot of time than whether the chef has selected organic arugula and dressed it with Tuscany's finest extra virgin.

Not that they're mutually exclusive, but on the whole, the latter is likely to be much more expensive and formal than the former.

DC did have a well-regarded gay fine-dining restaurant, but it did not do well and eventually closed. It was, interstingly, once picketed by gay PETA members for serving foie gras, causing a little ruckus in the gay press for a couple of weeks, but I don't think that had to do with its closing.

[Fat Guy]

A restaurant which sets its goal on serving the needs of its customers is heading in the right direction.

I have some friends in Ohio whose family owns a bar. Many years ago, they noticed an upsurge in gay attendance at the bar -- in part, they think, because they decided to do an upscale bar in an area that had mostly dives. This family is quite straight-laced in every sense of the word but has the good old real Midwestern value system of I-don't-give-a-damn-what-you-want-to-do-in-your-bedroom. So apparently one day a gay guy got picked on by some townies and the patriarch of the family stepped in and beat the crap out of him. From that day forward, they've owned a gay bar -- and they've been an extremely profitable establishment. Sometimes ethics and good business fit together nicely.

[elyse]

In Provincetown Mass, you'd have a hard time finding a straight restaurant.

[Lady T]

Now that's a new one on me...I've been to any number of restaurants in the largest Chicago gay neighborhood (nicknamed "Boys' Town", on the North Side), but I can't -- for the life of me -- recall any that cater only and exclusively to that clientele. For that matter, I've never seen any restaurant turf out a customer who (a) had a reservation (if that was required), (b) showed up on time, ( c ) behaved nicely, (d) spent lots of $$$, and (e) tipped well. I have a real problem imagining any restaurant in these spooky economic times who would turn away a customer who wanted to spend some dough during working hours.

How naive am I? Or am I simply observing what FG saw as the "real Midwestern value system", having been born and raised here in Chicago?

[nerissa]

A restaurant which sets its goal on serving the needs of its customers is heading in the right direction.

I have some friends in Ohio whose family owns a bar. Many years ago, they noticed an upsurge in gay attendance at the bar -- in part, they think, because they decided to do an upscale bar in an area that had mostly dives. This family is quite straight-laced in every sense of the word but has the good old real Midwestern value system of I-don't-give-a-damn-what-you-want-to-do-in-your-bedroom. So apparently one day a gay guy got picked on by some townies and the patriarch of the family stepped in and beat the crap out of him. From that day forward, they've owned a gay bar -- and they've been an extremely profitable establishment. Sometimes ethics and good business fit together nicely.

Sound like good people.

[rich]

However, I find it less offensive for a restaurant to serve a minority and exclude the majority when it's been obvious that the particular minority group suffers from discrimination.

That could be a good argument for the gentlemen at Augusta National. After all, men are a minority and they have been suffering from discrimination because they play golf.

You should write Hootie with your thoughts.