Dutch oven/braising cookware

[Safran]

The main different between the Le Cruset and the Staub is the little bumps on the underside of the Staub lids where steam condenses and drips onto the meat, or whatever is being cooked, in an even pattern, instead of running down the sides of the pan. 

The Staub lids even have a depression where you can put ice if you want to speed up the drip-drop self-basting process.

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Le Creuset has a similar model...used to be sold under Cousances. The inside is beige, not dark. I noticed that WmS and I think Sur la Table offer those models also.

[Safran]

I believe Le Chasseur is made in the same factory as Staub. It's the lower-priced spread, not being quite as well finished and not quite as heavy as the Staub and Le Cruset, but still a very, very good oven.

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Staub is made in Alsace. Chasseur, a division of Invicta, is made in Ardennes. Among other things, Invicta also produces bbq's, cast iron fireboxes, and those cute cast iron "feet" on marble tables.

[Cornucopiae]

Invicta  (www.invicta.fr) also makes Le Chasseur, which is identical to Le Creuset, except no bakelite...    It's easy to find here in Canada, not sure in the States.

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I believe Le Chasseur is made in the same factory as Staub. It's the lower-priced spread, not being quite as well finished and not quite as heavy as the Staub and Le Cruset, but still a very, very good oven. In the US you can sometimes find them at TJ Maxx and Marshall's.

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Hi Le Chasseur is made by Le Creuset (and not STAUB). STAUB makes 2 other brands of their own (for hypermarket and caterers). STAUB is pretty premium stuff and hence guess why chefs prefer it as opposed to Le Creuset. Also STAUB's interior is a porous material unlike Le Creuset (which is smooth - kinda like cooking in glass) - i think items braised in glass.. do not taste the same as porous material whihc helps braising, reducing and caremelising.

[Cornucopiae]

I believe Le Chasseur is made in the same factory as Staub. It's the lower-priced spread, not being quite as well finished and not quite as heavy as the Staub and Le Cruset, but still a very, very good oven.

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Staub is made in Alsace. Chasseur, a division of Invicta, is made in Ardennes. Among other things, Invicta also produces bbq's, cast iron fireboxes, and those cute cast iron "feet" on marble tables.

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sorry - Cousances. Le Chasseur is another producer - apologies. STAUB makes NOMAR and FOTIGNAC

[k43]

The Le Creuset model is the Doufeu. It has a depression in the lid for ice or water and small nibs on the bottom of the lid. I made a stovetop potroast in mine last week that was superb.

LA Times did a comparison last week between a Le Creuset round French oven, a Staub LaCocotte and an Emile Henry ceramic Flame-Top Stewpot. They strongly preferred the Le Creuset.

LA Times Story

[slkinsey]

With all due respect to Donna Deane of the LA Times, this comparison is so horribly flawed as to be worthless. Just to point out a few of the problems:

1. She did all the braising in the oven, which does much to mitigate Staub's advantage of having a heavier construction. It also more or less eliminates the function of the "basting spikes" by making the lid too hot (how will steam condense on a 225F hot metal lid?).

2. She compares a 5.5 quart Le Creuset against a 5 quart Staub and then "rewards" Le Creuset by saying that it has more surface area. Had she compared the 4.4 quart Le Creuset against a 5 quart Staub, of course, the advantage would have gone the other way.

3. She mentions nothing about the fact that Le Creuset is notoriously poor at browning and says that "against [staub's] dark interiors, our lamb shanks inadvertently went past searing and into burn territory." I use a special technique called "paying attention" to make sure that burning doesn't occur, but I would also suggest that this demonstrates that Staub is far superior at browning compared to Le Creuset.

4. She claims that Le Creuset has a tighter/better fitting lid. Not true in my experience, but I suppose there is some variation from piece to piece.

5. No mention is made of the fact that the knobs on Le Creuset's bakelite knobs are notoriously faulty, often falling off as one is trying to pick up a hot lid. Staub's brass knobs never have this problem.

6. Finally, she didn't cook the two dishes the same way. She somehow concludes that because Staub has "basting spikes" in the lid, she would leave that pot entirely alone. She does, however, "[pull] the Le Creuset out twice to baste and once to turn over the shanks" (emphasis mine). I doubt that her basting had much effect, but turning the shanks over will definitely have a big effect, and even if she decided to not baste the Staub shanks in order to evaluate the "basting spikes" she still should have turned the Staub shanks over at the same time she did the Le Creuset shanks. Later she observes that "the exposed parts of the lamb shanks were also quite dry" as a negative. If she had turned the shanks that wouldn't have happened.

I'm not saying that there aren't reasons to prefer Le Creuset over Staub. Just that this "comparison" didn't do anything to enlighten.

[eje]

I use a special technique called "paying attention" to make sure that burning doesn't occur

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Oh, Ouch!

[slkinsey]

Well... here's the thing: There are times you shouldn't have to pay attention to prevent burning. This is generally during the "low/slow" part of the cooking process. You shouldn't have to pay attention to your slowly simmering tomato sauce to avoid a burn ring on the bottom. If that happens, the cookware is flawed. On the other hand, high heat searing/browning is one of those things where you do have to pay attention. If she burned in the Staub and not in the Le Creuset it is only because the Le Creuset takes so much longer to brown.

[budrichard]

I don't think that it is going to be easy to get non-biased quantitative results. The variables are many. You must use the same ingrediants for each roast you make and then have a blind tasting panel for judgement and even then the tasters bring thier own preconcieved notions of what is good to the table, so to speak. The best you will get are qualitative results that probably are not translatable to other users. I really believe that a good cook/chef could cook with just about anything and get good results. Its more about quality of ingrediants, technique and effort. -Dick

[Steven Blaski]

5. No mention is made of the fact that the knobs on Le Creuset's bakelite knobs are notoriously faulty, often falling off as one is trying to pick up a hot lid.  Staub's brass knobs never have this problem.

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When did LC start using Bakelite knobs? Recently I got rid of my entire set of LC (purchased in the late 70s); the lids were crowned with cast iron loops as opposed to "knobs" -- all of a piece with the lid. Seems really dumb of LC to switch to making the knob a separate part, and plastic to boot.

[mrbigjas]

Well... here's the thing:  There are times you shouldn't have to pay attention to prevent burning.  This is generally during the "low/slow" part of the cooking process.  You shouldn't have to pay attention to your slowly simmering tomato sauce to avoid a burn ring on the bottom.  If that happens, the cookware is flawed.  On the other hand, high heat searing/browning is one of those things where you do have to pay attention.  If she burned in the Staub and not in the Le Creuset it is only because the Le Creuset takes so much longer to brown.

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why is that? just because it's light colored, or is it something to do with the enamel itself--or is it some other aspect of the construction?

[slobhan]

why are dutch ovens important? am i missing out or messing up (when a recipe calls for a dutch oven) by not having one?

[Smithy]

why are dutch ovens important? am i missing out or messing up (when a recipe calls for a dutch oven) by not having one?

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It depends on what you're doing with it, and what you're using instead of a dutch oven. A deep, heavy pot with a tight lid can help retain an even heat to bring out the best in your stews, braises and stovetop roasts. On the other hand, you don't need a dutch oven to make stock.

So:

* what sorts of recipes make you wonder about the dutch oven, and

* what do you use instead?

[slobhan]

So: 

* what sorts of recipes make you wonder about the dutch oven, and

* what do you use instead?

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I guess it's largely stews & braises that I wonder about. I don't make them often, because when I read "dutch oven" I usually freeze.

What do I use instead? Usually a big sauce pan with a lid.

edited to add this:

in fact, i wikipedia'ed it and there's an old school picture there, but i'm not even sure i know what a dutch oven looks like today.

Edited February 22, 2006 by slobhan (log)

[Chris Amirault]

They look like this.

If your big sauce pan is nice and thick (retains heat) and has a tight-fitting lid, then it can work just fine.

[snowangel]

Chris is right. But, it needs to be really heavy. It should also be able to go from stovetop to oven and back to stovetop.

Don't let a dutch oven scare you! I think, for myself, that it would be far more work to braise something is a saucepan, which probably isn't nearly as heavy as the pans to which Chris linked. Do you do stovetop or in the oven braising and stews? With a really heavy pan, you greatly reduce the possibility of burning the braise or stew.

[nacho]

Yup, also keep in mind that the shape of the pan can change the cooking times/techniques on recipes. I learned this the hard way when making Paul Prudhome's seafood jambalaya one time. My cast iron dutch oven wasn't quite large enough to hold the whole recipe, so I used my taller calphalon 8 qt stock pot. All went well, until the last part of the recipe that called for stirring in the raw peeled and deveined shrimp, cover, and turn off the heat. The recipe said that the heat from the pot will cook the shrimp if you don't pick up the lid for about 10 minutes. I figured, hell, I'll leave it on for 20 minutes just to be safe. I took off the lid, the shrimp were pink and had curled up, so we dug in. Within an hour of dinner, me and my unfortunate dinner partner that evening were fighting over the bathroom.

I guess I needed the jambalaya cooking wider and shorter to cook properly, not tall and skinny.

[John S.]

why are dutch ovens important? am i missing out or messing up (when a recipe calls for a dutch oven) by not having one?

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They are useful in the kitchen but I always find myself using a heavy stockpot. I find myself using my dutch ovens when I camp or when I go on river trips. They are NOT LC Dutch ovens, just the inexpensive 60.00 large cast iron ones. I use them for desserts like upside down cakes. You put them on coals and cover the tops with coals also, giving a consistent baking temp everywhere.

The only expensive thing similar I use is a French oven - basically a roaster.

John S.

[fannus]

I would have to say that the thing I like most about my Dutch oven is its versatility. It was one of the first larger sized cooking vessels I purchased, I use it for stews, soups, braises, curries, it makes an excellent cooking vessel for savory pies. It's also great beacuse my stovetop and oven both electric, do a terrible job of maintaining a consistent level of heat, so the cast iron really helps keep things more or less constant.

I would say cast iron skillet is to a frying pan as dutch oven is to a pot. More versatile, sturdier and with a much higher specific heat (also my dutch oven has a pretty good nonstick patina on it at this point

[RonC]

I'm beginning to feel like a PR rep for Lodge, but, again, I think cast iron is really great for Dutch ovens -- especially for braising. Mrs. Sidecar has some beef short ribs on order for tomorrow that will be going into the pot for some slooooow cookin'. Ooops, drooled on my keyboard again.

BTW, I know some can taste an "off flavor" when; e.g., tomatoes, are cooked in cast iron. Maybe my ol' taste buds are shot, but I sure don't detect anything in our well-seasoned pots.

Sidecar Ron

[Kim WB]

I fyou find that you enjoy braising, then a dutch oven is a good investment. beofre I bought my two beloved LC's, I used the Calpaholon rounded saute pan, about 3-4 inches deep w/ a domed lid..and it worked. But the LC's really take the guess work out of it, and braising is my favorite now. they are calling for snow tomorrow, so I defrosted a duck...in the oval LC it will go...ginger, soy, broth...mmmm.

[Bill44]

It's funny how things vary from country to country. In Australia "Dutch Ovens" are usually only used when camping. They are usually buried in a hole surrounded by hot coals and with hot coals covering the top. They are used like a crock pot slow cooker.

The other use (same coals treatment) is for making "Damper" which is an Aussie unyeasted camp bread, sort of like a big US biscuit.

In Aus. Biscuit = US cookie.

" " Scone = US biscuit.

[naf]

I did some research before choosing a "cocotte" of my life, from either Le Creuset and Staub. Staub usually comes with a brass knob that can withstand very high heat (up to 500˚F) while Le Creuset's bakelite knobs can only withstand up to 355˚F (180˚C according to their French website). I guess if you are in a professional kitchen, you don't want trouble of have melting or cracking knobs with certain recipes that require higher cooking temperature.

Edited April 8, 2007 by naf (log)

[pounce]

Le Creuset offers stainless replacements knobs now for those with cracked or melted knobs...

[paulraphael]

I don't find the Creuset pieces to be challenged in the browning department. They aren't quite as effective as uncoated cast iron, but seem equal to my inherited Descoware (Belgian) enameled cast iron, which has a dark, slightly porous interior like the Staub.

Personally, I prefer the light, smooth enamel—it's easier to clean, and much easier to see the difference between browned, unbrowned, and burnt fond. But both braise beautifully, and I choose one or the other based on size and shape. The Creuset seems to be thicker on the bottom than the sides, some others are equally thinck throughout. At any rate, they're more than heavy enough to have the high thermal mass you want.

I'm skeptical of the culinary utility of lid spikes (or a parchment or foil insert, or anything else that "bastes" the food you're braising). I don't know what you supposedly accomplish by dripping condensed steam onto meat that's sitting in a 100% humidity environment to begin with.

I'm glad to hear about the stainless replacement knobs ... haven't needed one yet, but it's nice to know.

Edited April 9, 2007 by paulraphael (log)