Cooking with Myhrvold and Migoya's Modernist Pizza

[Chris Hennes]

Carbonara Pizza (KM p. 274)

Second-Chance Levain Neapolitan Dough (KM p. 81)

 

The dough here is an idea that they ported over from Modernist Bread: basically, instead of a poolish, use an inactive levain. You still raise the dough using commercial yeast, the levain is just for flavor. If you're already feeding a levain, you can use the discard portion: it won't have enough leavening power to really affect the dough's rise much compared to the commercial yeast, even though it's not really completely inactive. The dough is good: easy to work with, flavorful, and well-textured. Not any more so than a normal cold-proofed Neapolitan dough (the flavor is slightly different, but not a huge departure), this is more "why throw away this extra sourdough levain when you can use it for baking?"

 

The pizza itself is based on pasta carbonara (made with bacon, though of course you could use guanciale, pancetta, or whatever else you wanted instead). You make a quite thick bechamel flavored with bacon, parmesan, and black pepper, put that on the pizza with some additional bacon, and bake it. To finish you can either put soft eggs or an egg yolk sauce (I opted for the yolk, though I overcooked it), and chives. It was good, though I preferred the second pizza that I made, omitting the yolk and adding fresh mozzarella.

 

[Chris Hennes]

Gluten-Free Neapolitan Crust (KM p. 103)

 

I did not have high hopes for this one, it's hard to imagine a successful Neapolitan-style pizza without gluten. Thus, my hopes and dreams were not crushed when this pizza was... marginally edible. I mean, it was clearly pizza. Of some kind. And the sauce was good (this was the Modernist Neapolitan, so just crushed tomatoes, salt, and a tiny bit of xanthan gum). The crust? Not my favorite. I think it might have promise in their thin-crust variant, but I can't recommend making the Neapolitan, even if you have to be gluten free. Pick something else.

 

Basically no rim, and very, very minimal rise:

 

The slight char that tastes good on a regular Neapolitan pie is sort of gross here (and of course it doesn't do the "leoparding" thing):

[Robenco15]

2 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Gluten-Free Neapolitan Crust (KM p. 103)

 

I did not have high hopes for this one, it's hard to imagine a successful Neapolitan-style pizza without gluten. Thus, my hopes and dreams were not crushed when this pizza was... marginally edible. I mean, it was clearly pizza. Of some kind. And the sauce was good (this was the Modernist Neapolitan, so just crushed tomatoes, salt, and a tiny bit of xanthan gum). The crust? Not my favorite. I think it might have promise in their thin-crust variant, but I can't recommend making the Neapolitan, even if you have to be gluten free. Pick something else.

 

Basically no rim, and very, very minimal rise:

 

The slight char that tastes good on a regular Neapolitan pie is sort of gross here (and of course it doesn't do the "leoparding" thing):

That’s disgusting. It’s not you. It’s the recipe/concept. Man, thanks for taking one for the team. 
 

This is a Pork, Onion, Spicy Chimichurri NY direct dough. Awesome. Just made a Poolish for the Artisan dough for Friday pizzas. 
 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Robenco15 (log)

[Chris Hennes]

Levain-Based Neapolitan Dough (KM p. 80)

 

They provide recipes for levain-based versions of their nine basic doughs, so tonight I made Neapolitan-style pizza with levain instead of commercial yeast. It's an easy dough to work with and shape, with good flavor, but the texture is a bit chewier than I prefer in pizza.

 

 

[Robenco15]

3 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Levain-Based Neapolitan Dough (KM p. 80)

 

They provide recipes for levain-based versions of their nine basic doughs, so tonight I made Neapolitan-style pizza with levain instead of commercial yeast. It's an easy dough to work with and shape, with good flavor, but the texture is a bit chewier than I prefer in pizza.

 

 

That’s really odd it’s so dense and chewy. I’ve made a lot of levain Neapolitan doughs and haven’t had that issue. Will have to try it. Your Levain good/strong?
 

This one is a levain based Neapolitan. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Robenco15 (log)

[Chris Hennes]

12 hours ago, Robenco15 said:

That’s really odd it’s so dense and chewy.

I wouldn't have described it as particularly "dense", just chewy, in much the same way a sourdough bread is typically chewier than commercially-leavened.

[Robenco15]

7 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

I wouldn't have described it as particularly "dense", just chewy, in much the same way a sourdough bread is typically chewier than commercially-leavened.

Ah yes, dense was my word. Looking at the cornicione it just didn't rise as much as I'm used to, but I think I do remember the crust being a touch chewy. I kinda enjoyed that as it was like having a Neapolitan pizza and a good piece of sourdough bread all at once! But I get your point for sure.

 

My starter is really strong right now after a week of restarting it so this weekend I'm going to use it for this recipe.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Robenco15 (log)

[weinoo]

44 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

I wouldn't have described it as particularly "dense", just chewy, in much the same way a sourdough bread is typically chewier than commercially-leavened.

 

I totally agree with this; even making pizza not from MCP, even making pizza not in an Ooni, I found levain pizze to not be to my liking. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

This evening I put together a batch of dough similar to my last.  I kneaded a bit by hand then threw the dough in the chamber vac.  Because the last pizzas had no oven spring I added 0.5% diastatic malt, and increased the yeast slightly to 0.5%.

 

The last pizzas were over salty, so I decreased the salt to 1%.  The dough balls are now resting comfortably until tomorrow.  Or at least that's the plan.

 

[Chris Hennes]

Argentinean-Style "Al Molde" Pizza (KM p. 243)

 

Like the Brazilian recipes I've posted about up-topic, the Argentineans apparently really, really like their cheese. The recipe calls for 550g of cheese on a single 14-inch pan pizza. To quote Modernist Pizza: "This amount of cheese will seem like too much... because it is. But this is roughly how much cheese the Argentineans put on pizza." Yeah, so... no. I didn't actually measure, I just sprinkled cheese on until it seemed like a reasonable amount. I did make sure it went all the way to the edges, though:

 

 

The dough itself was probably the fastest of any in the book, clocking in at under three hours start to finish. The pizza uses their New York pizza sauce, which is delicious, so with a sane amount of cheese this is a very nice pan pizza (if you like pan pizza, which I do). I do find their baking time suspect, but that may owe to my greatly-reduce cheese content. The recipe calls for baking for 20 minutes, and mine only took ten.

 

[rotuts]

@Chris Hennes 

 

that PP looks perfect for me.

 

Im not a ' peel ' person at the moment 

 

and I like PanPizza

 

what sort of pan did you use ?

 

I have a Chicago Metalic ( for Chicago DD )  

 

9.5 "  and fits nicely in the CSO.

 

currently , its the CSO that will be doing the baking.

 

the APO is something for the future , 

 

and probably not Pizza ( or maybe ? )

[Chris Hennes]

26 minutes ago, rotuts said:

what sort of pan did you use ?

I am using this one: Chicago Metallic Deep Dish Pizza pan, 14-Inch diameter (eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

[Chris Hennes]

Second-Chance Levain Detroit-Style Dough (KM p. 81)

 

This is a recipe where the second-chance levain method really shines. The original Detroit dough is just a simple direct dough: adding the inactive levain gives the dough a great depth of flavor without compromising the texture of the crust. I've also come to the conclusion that their baking times for the Detroit dough are off. Their recipe calls for baking at 480°F for 20 minutes when using a convection oven, but I'm baking for literally half that. I pulled tonight's pizza after ten minutes, and I'd say it was perfectly cooked.

 

The toppings tonight are a riff on their "Spring has Sprung Pizza" (KM p. 308) -- their recipe uses ricotta as the "sauce", pizza cheese next, and has asparagus and morels on top, plus an egg put on halfway through baking. I didn't have enough ricotta, so mine is a half ricotta/half creme fraiche sauce. Also, it's not spring here in the northern hemisphere, so no morels, I used oyster mushrooms. And no egg, because I didn't think it would work well on a Detroit-style crust. Still, it was delicious: I don't know where Imperfect Foods got these asparagus, but they were enormous, and fantastic.

 

 

[Robenco15]

5 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

Second-Chance Levain Detroit-Style Dough (KM p. 81)

 

This is a recipe where the second-chance levain method really shines. The original Detroit dough is just a simple direct dough: adding the inactive levain gives the dough a great depth of flavor without compromising the texture of the crust. I've also come to the conclusion that their baking times for the Detroit dough are off. Their recipe calls for baking at 480°F for 20 minutes when using a convection oven, but I'm baking for literally half that. I pulled tonight's pizza after ten minutes, and I'd say it was perfectly cooked.

 

The toppings tonight are a riff on their "Spring has Sprung Pizza" (KM p. 308) -- their recipe uses ricotta as the "sauce", pizza cheese next, and has asparagus and morels on top, plus an egg put on halfway through baking. I didn't have enough ricotta, so mine is a half ricotta/half creme fraiche sauce. Also, it's not spring here in the northern hemisphere, so no morels, I used oyster mushrooms. And no egg, because I didn't think it would work well on a Detroit-style crust. Still, it was delicious: I don't know where Imperfect Foods got these asparagus, but they were enormous, and fantastic.

 

 

What size pan are you using? I’m getting one for xmas. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Robenco15 (log)

[Chris Hennes]

That one is the LloydPans Kitchenware 10 by 14 Inch Detroit Style Pizza Pan (eG-friendly Amazon.com link).

[Robenco15]

12 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

That one is the LloydPans Kitchenware 10 by 14 Inch Detroit Style Pizza Pan (eG-friendly Amazon.com link).

Ok cool. That’s what I asked for. Surprised the cooking time is so off but thanks for the heads up. 

[Robenco15]

On 11/11/2021 at 7:45 PM, Chris Hennes said:

Levain-Based Neapolitan Dough (KM p. 80)

 

They provide recipes for levain-based versions of their nine basic doughs, so tonight I made Neapolitan-style pizza with levain instead of commercial yeast. It's an easy dough to work with and shape, with good flavor, but the texture is a bit chewier than I prefer in pizza.

 

 

Last question as I’m making this dough tomorrow. 
 

Did you follow the recipe exactly? “20 min. bench rest and then shaped into balls and into the fridge”? I have found sourdough pizza dough that gets a cold ferment benefits from a RT bulk ferment between 2 and 4 hours. It gives the levain a chance to get going. Too soon into the fridge and it never gets a chance to develop.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Robenco15 (log)

[Chris Hennes]

No, I've found levains to be too idiosyncratic to blindly follow time and temp instructions. Like you, I also usually give mine more time at room temperature before hitting the fridge. In this case, if I recall correctly I actually didn't give it any time at room temp, but refrigerated it at 55°F, like I would for bread.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

On 11/12/2021 at 7:53 PM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

This evening I put together a batch of dough similar to my last.  I kneaded a bit by hand then threw the dough in the chamber vac.  Because the last pizzas had no oven spring I added 0.5% diastatic malt, and increased the yeast slightly to 0.5%.

 

The last pizzas were over salty, so I decreased the salt to 1%.  The dough balls are now resting comfortably until tomorrow.  Or at least that's the plan.

 

 

Tonight I ate the pizza.  One of my best.  I finished the whole thing, washed down with a little Momofuku ranch.

 

Meanwhile The Economist asks:  "If tropical fruit continue to thrive in Sicily, could ham and pineapple pizza one day be considered authentically Italian?"

 

[Robenco15]

Made the Levain Neapolitan dough today. Did a 4hr bulk ferment at 75F before balling. Honestly still not sure it was enough based on how it balled up. Sourdough starter doughs, at least pizza, in my experience really need long RTfermenting to get going. I honestly think following the fermentation steps for their Master Neapolitan dough would probably give great results. I guess I’ll find out Tuesday how this goes. 

[Chris Hennes]

I used the second half of the dough batch I used last night to make another try at the basic Detroit-style pizza. This time I only baked it for eight minutes, which worked beautifully. The crust (the second-chance levain with a day of age on it now) was well-textured and flavorful, and properly cooked. That said, I really can't get behind that Wisconsin Brick Cheese. I don't care for the smell as it cooks, and the bitter flavor is just not my favorite on pizza. It's better in small quantities as part of a cheese plate than it is dumped atop a pizza. Really, the saving grace of tonight's pizza is that the New York sauce is great, so applied judiciously it masks the flavor of the cheese. Which is not something I really want to do! So I think this is it for me and the "authentic" Detroit pizza with its brick cheese. Maybe I'll try a blend of pizza cheese and cheddar next time, or something long those lines.

 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

 

 

 

 

Second ball of dough from most recent batch.  Baked about three minutes.  Even better.  (Last night's was a little under done.)  I could eat but half.  No way the fault of the pizza.

 

[Chris Hennes]

Raw Cherry Tomato Sauce (KM p. 121)

 

The dough is their basic Neapolitan (though at long last made with the Caputo Pizzeria flour, I finished off the last of my Chef's flour on the last pizza -- I was very happy with the texture of the crust, and the workability of the dough). The sauce is one I hadn't tried yet: hand-crushed cherry tomatoes with olive oil, sugar, and salt. This would have benefited from the Modernist treatment, it could have used a little xanthan gum to thicken it just slightly, it was pretty difficult to keep it on the pizza when transferring to the oven. It was delicious, though, so I'll certainly make it again.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

7 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

Raw Cherry Tomato Sauce (KM p. 121)

 

The dough is their basic Neapolitan (though at long last made with the Caputo Pizzeria flour, I finished off the last of my Chef's flour on the last pizza -- I was very happy with the texture of the crust, and the workability of the dough). The sauce is one I hadn't tried yet: hand-crushed cherry tomatoes with olive oil, sugar, and salt. This would have benefited from the Modernist treatment, it could have used a little xanthan gum to thicken it just slightly, it was pretty difficult to keep it on the pizza when transferring to the oven. It was delicious, though, so I'll certainly make it again.

 

 

Chris, what is your opinion of the flours?  I have a few kilos of Caputo Chef's but I have not yet tried it for pizza.

 

[KennethT]

42 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

Raw Cherry Tomato Sauce (KM p. 121)

 

The dough is their basic Neapolitan (though at long last made with the Caputo Pizzeria flour, I finished off the last of my Chef's flour on the last pizza -- I was very happy with the texture of the crust, and the workability of the dough). The sauce is one I hadn't tried yet: hand-crushed cherry tomatoes with olive oil, sugar, and salt. This would have benefited from the Modernist treatment, it could have used a little xanthan gum to thicken it just slightly, it was pretty difficult to keep it on the pizza when transferring to the oven. It was delicious, though, so I'll certainly make it again.

 

 Una Pizza Napoletana (before they closed and reopened - I haven't visited since) made a pie like that using halved cherry tomatoes - I think they also had fresh thyme - it was fantastic.