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Cooking with Myhrvold and Migoya's Modernist Pizza

Chris Hennes

By Chris Hennes
in Cooking

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KennethT

KennethT

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Robenco15 said:

Haven’t gotten the Ooni out in awhile. Go wander over to “Cooking from Modernist Bread” in the Pastry section and you’ll understand why. 
 

Anyway, made Mod Pizza’s Neapolitan dough with Caputo Nuvola. May never use another flour for Neapolitan pizzas that only ferment for 24 hours. Used some shredded moz and Būf Mozzarella I had in the fridge. Sauce is just Bianco DiNapoli tomatoes and salt. Simple pizza tonight. 
 

Nice to see after almost 2 months I’ve still got it!

 

E53CF0AC-6497-4532-8CF6-93672A6C3EB3.thumb.jpeg.f69bb0031229c0e89d836d72970297a2.jpeg67AE4D86-56FA-41CD-92DA-1AB97B0286F8.thumb.jpeg.cd1dbc89db696852c5df18be68b0b004.jpeg8A38003B-55AA-4F8C-B761-7FA6E88E4E40.thumb.jpeg.79497040042d8d4132653f9d467f5c66.jpeg

gorgeous!!

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KennethT

KennethT

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

On a “research expedition” to Joe’s today (the outpost on Broadway, not Carmine):

9C3ABFAD-A2F2-480B-A664-C46A8B129FA8.jpeg
 

DAD1E636-099D-434B-8BD9-5A5873966BCD.jpeg

 

22B79870-5B69-49C1-B7EE-676F0934FD63.jpeg

 

So maybe now I have a better idea what I am aiming for…

what was your opinion of it?

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scott123

scott123

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Don Antonio’s (Neapolitan):


https://littleraesbakery.com/2021/11/09/the-history-of-white-flour/#:~:text=Ancient Egyptians are the earliest,version of “white” flour.
 

Quote

 Around 3000 B.C.E., the Egyptians began sifting flour using hand sieves. This helped separate the coarser parts of wheat grains from the finer grains—in essence, creating the first version of “white” flour...

 

Until about 1870, “white” flour was created using this sifting method...

 

However, between 1870 and 1890, the modern practice of milling flour using steel rollers became extremely popular.


The ancient Greeks had pissa/pita flatbreads, but topped pizza didn't originate in Naples until the early 1700s.  From the advent of sifting, poorer peasants couldn't afford white flour and it was  prized as a status symbol.  As time went by and it became more affordable, white flour took over Europe.  I can't tell you what flour Neapolitans were using for pizza in early 1700. I have a hunch it was sifted, but that's just a hunch.  But, once the technological advances emerged in the late 1800s, we know, for certain, that Neapolitan pizza was/is white flour.

Where am I going with this? Roberto (Don Antonio's) is using whole wheat.  It's a fraction (last I heard, it's 25%), and it's a transitional whole wheat, but it's still whole wheat.  Authentic Neapolitan pizza, as defined by at least the last 130 years, contains no whole wheat flour. If Roberto wants to classify this as 'archaic Neapolitan'  or some other label, I'd be fine with that, but, I wouldn't call this 'Neapolitan.' Neapolitan-ish, maybe, but not Neapolitan.

And I'm not just saying this to be pedantic.  Authentic Neapolitan pizza is the puffiest/most ethereal bread on the planet.  Once you add whole wheat to the equation, that puff is gone.  Whole wheat completely trashes that extreme volume, it completely trashes what makes Neapolitan pizza so treasured.

What's even sadder is that Roberto's pizzerias, until he went this whole wheat route, were an incredibly easy means for folks visiting New York to experience the real deal.  It shouldn't be difficult to experience authentic Neapolitan pizza in New York City, but, thanks to Roberto and his greedy Caputo overlords, it now is.  You've got Mangieri, but, his sourdough obsession makes for an inconsistent product.  
 

The last measure of salt in an already deep wound?  Roberto is president of VPN America, an organization that's supposed to be dedicated to preserving authentic Neapolitan as it traverses the globe.  What he's doing is basically the complete opposite of preservation.

Edited by scott123 (log)
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scott123

scott123

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

So maybe now I have a better idea what I am aiming for…

 

FYI, you won't get there using this book.  If you travel West, and visit places like Tartine or Ken's Artisan pizza, I'm relatively certain that MP can help you recreate those pies, but, Nathan and friends understand New York style pizza about as well as a fish understands the snow on top of Mount Everest.

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weinoo

weinoo

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, scott123 said:

Where am I going with this? Roberto (Don Antonio's) is using whole wheat

 

Is he (was he always?) doing the same at Keste?  Cause I loved Keste (probably ate there at friends and family even) when it opened, but haven't been in forever. It was my first exposure to Neapolitan pizza as we knew it here.

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

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Chris Hennes

Chris Hennes

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  • Topic Starter
Posted
On 1/15/2022 at 1:22 PM, KennethT said:

what was your opinion of it?

Well, it turns out I like NY-style pizza, particularly when it's been reheated (because then the crust is crisp). I don't have the experience to judge Joe's against anyone else's, but I enjoyed my lunch, even if it was 12°F outside! I have my work cut out for me reproducing anything like this at home, though. First, obviously the size is a problem. I think the whole pies are around 20", so the center-to-crust ratio is basically just unachievable in a home oven. Second, I'm skeptical of Modernist Pizza's quest for "fluffier" NY-style dough (I don't remember if that's the word they use, but they add pectin to add volume to the dough, which seems anathema to the NY pies I've had so far). That said, my house smells frigging fantastic right now, because I've got that NY-style sauce on the stove, and it's awesome. So we'll see what I can manage.

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Chris Hennes
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chennes@egullet.org

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Chris Hennes

Chris Hennes

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  • Topic Starter
Posted
10 hours ago, weinoo said:

I loved Keste

I'll agree with this, I had probably my favorite Neapolitan-style pizza there a few years ago. I didn't think Don Antonio's was as good, but it had several things working against it, not least of which is that I've eaten a lot of pizza in the intervening years! Second, it suffered from the standard problem with Neapolitan pizza in a restaurant: only the first slice is actually good. This is great if you are sharing a pizza, and they're batched (i.e. the way you'd make them at home). But when two or three pizzas come out all at once, by the time you're eating your third or fourth slice, everything is cold, soggy, and sad. Not the fault of the pizzeria, it's the style: you have to share it, and you have to order one at a time. I don't care how ethereal your crust is coming out of the oven: sitting on a plate for ten minutes is going to kill it.

 

But, in a discussion about making Neapolitan-style pizza at home, the beauty is we can totally avoid this problem (in fact, I'd suggest it's a great reason to make it at home!). All pizza nights at my house include a built-in "intermission" while I shape and bake the second pie, and it goes from oven to your plate in under 60 seconds.

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Chris Hennes
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chennes@egullet.org

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KennethT

KennethT

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

Well, it turns out I like NY-style pizza, particularly when it's been reheated (because then the crust is crisp). I don't have the experience to judge Joe's against anyone else's, but I enjoyed my lunch, even if it was 12°F outside! I have my work cut out for me reproducing anything like this at home, though. First, obviously the size is a problem. I think the whole pies are around 20", so the center-to-crust ratio is basically just unachievable in a home oven. Second, I'm skeptical of Modernist Pizza's quest for "fluffier" NY-style dough (I don't remember if that's the word they use, but they add pectin to add volume to the dough, which seems anathema to the NY pies I've had so far). That said, my house smells frigging fantastic right now, because I've got that NY-style sauce on the stove, and it's awesome. So we'll see what I can manage.

What did you think of Joe's sauce?  I think it's pretty different from most NY places.  To me, it seems like their sauce is just tomatoes and maybe salt.  No oregano, no garlic powder, etc...

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weinoo

weinoo

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Chris Hennes said:

All pizza nights at my house include a built-in "intermission" while I shape and bake the second pie, and it goes from oven to your plate in under 60 seconds.

 

Absolutely no other way.

 

And in an NYC restaurant, they want your fucking seat!

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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weinoo

weinoo

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, KennethT said:

What did you think of Joe's sauce?  I think it's pretty different from most NY places.  To me, it seems like their sauce is just tomatoes and maybe salt.  No oregano, no garlic powder, etc...

 

Agreed!

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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Chris Hennes

Chris Hennes

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Posted
15 minutes ago, weinoo said:

And in an NYC restaurant, they want your fucking seat!

There was quite the crowd waiting for our seats at the bar when we left Don Antonio's -- I wouldn't have minded ordering another pizza or two, but I don't think we'd have lived to eat them :) .

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Chris Hennes
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chennes@egullet.org

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weinoo

weinoo

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

There was quite the crowd waiting for our seats at the bar when we left Don Antonio's -- I wouldn't have minded ordering another pizza or two, but I don't think we'd have lived to eat them :) .

 

As we used to say: "Welcome to New York City...Now go home!"

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

But, in a discussion about making Neapolitan-style pizza at home, the beauty is we can totally avoid this problem (in fact, I'd suggest it's a great reason to make it at home!). All pizza nights at my house include a built-in "intermission" while I shape and bake the second pie, and it goes from oven to your plate in under 60 seconds.

 

And how do you get the pictures?

 

Cooking is cool.  And kitchen gear is even cooler.  -- Chad Ward

Whatever you crave, there's a dumpling for you. -- Hsiao-Ching Chou

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Duvel

Duvel

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Chris Hennes said:

One handed.


I wonder when they will come up with an autonomous camera-equipped indoor drone for us cooking aficionados. I mean, cooking is at least as dynamic as mountain biking or kite surfing …

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blue_dolphin

blue_dolphin

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Duvel said:


I wonder when they will come up with an autonomous camera-equipped indoor drone for us cooking aficionados. I mean, cooking is at least as dynamic as mountain biking or kite surfing …

Well, Kenji had his GoPro strapped to his head for his pizza videos. You could do the same, just like those mountain bikers and sky divers 🙃

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