Tempering home-made gianduja

[DJ Silverchild]

At least I think it is. I will be making my version of a Ferrero rocher.

I made a 50/50 caramel to hazelnut praline paste mixture and I'm adding it to milk chocolate, and that mixture is 50% chocolate and 50% praline paste. I'm using the EZ Temper but it's too soft and didn't seem to temper. Once upon a time I had issues tempering Valrhona gianduja and this forum suggested tempering at a very low temp, it worked, and it saved the day. But I wasnt using EZ Temper then, and EZ Temper says to do everything at 92.5 degrees. My questions are:
Will my mixture not temper at all? The Valrhona is a professional product and I'm doing this from scratch.

Should I do it at a lower temperature?

[Chocolot]

Yes. For gianduja, use 82 degrees, or 28C. Put over bowl of ice water to cool down quick.

[Jim D.]

21 minutes ago, DJ Silverchild said:

At least I think it is. I will be making my version of a Ferrero rocher.

I made a 50/50 caramel to hazelnut praline paste mixture and I'm adding it to milk chocolate, and that mixture is 50% chocolate and 50% praline paste. I'm using the EZ Temper but it's too soft and didn't seem to temper. Once upon a time I had issues tempering Valrhona gianduja and this forum suggested tempering at a very low temp, it worked, and it saved the day. But I wasnt using EZ Temper then, and EZ Temper says to do everything at 92.5 degrees. My questions are:
Will my mixture not temper at all? The Valrhona is a professional product and I'm doing this from scratch.

Should I do it at a lower temperature?

 

In my experience selecting the ratio of chocolate and nut paste is tricky and varies depending on the consistency of the paste.  I buy hazelnut praline paste from Cacao Barry (50% nuts, 50% sugar) and mix it with chocolate (dark or milk) with twice as much paste as chocolate.  This is what Peter Greweling recommends.  With almond praline paste (which I make myself), however, I find that I have to use 400g chocolate and 500g paste--more chocolate because the almond paste is much more fluid.  To be honest, I must say that I no longer worry too much about tempering the gianduja.  For one thing, it's impossible to test it for temper.  I get the mixture below 93F, then add cocoa butter silk and stir.  When it begins to thicken a bit, I use it.  When ordinarily I would be piping the gianduja into molds, I instead use a confectionery funnel--which has turned out to be one of the best chocolate-related purchases I have ever made.  I can fill the cavities without spilling a drop.  But it's crucial not to wait too long for the gianduja to get too viscous.  When I want to see in advance how the gianduja will turn out, I do what Chocolot suggested:  stir it over cold water (even ice water) and let it get really thick, then put a little in the refrigerator and see how it is going to turn out.  Then, of course, I have to reheat it gently to get it back to pouring/piping condition.  This next point is probably an obvious one, but I'll include it anyway:  I find gianduja an incredibly "forgiving" product.  You can reheat it innumerable times, test it (as described above), then add more chocolate or more paste to get the consistency you wish.  Another note:  it gets considerably more solid as it sits and I usually wait a day before doing anything more with the molds.  If you are using a guitar to cut a gianduja slab, it's very tricky to get just the right moment to cut it (bitter experience speaking here).

 

I'm not sure why your gianduja was too fluid.  Did you make your own hazelnut praline paste or purchase it?  In any case, I would simply add more chocolate to the gianduja and see if it improves.  I can almost guarantee that by adding chocolate or paste you will eventually get the consistency you want, but this may require testing.  Another option which I have used is to add some coconut oil to the gianduja.  But since this keeps its consistency softer, this is obviously not your issue with this particular batch.

[Altay.Oro]

In terms of taste, appearance, structure, mouthfeel etc. of the final result ... is there any difference between these two methods ... combining melted, not tempered chocolate with nut pastes and tempering gianduja at the end ...and using already tempered chocolate without tempering at the end?

Edited March 1, 2021 by Altay.Oro (log)

[pastrygirl]

38 minutes ago, Altay.Oro said:

In terms of taste, appearance, structure, mouthfeel etc. of the final result ... is there any difference between these two methods ... combining melted, not tempered chocolate with nut pastes and tempering gianduja at the end ...and using already tempered chocolate without tempering at the end?

 

I don't think so.  I make a peanut butter gianduja for which I stir tempered chocolate into peanut butter, but I also sometimes melt down the scraps and re-temper them and the result is the same.  It's all about the cocoa butter.

 

Other fats and oils soften cocoa butter, and the more you add, the softer the mix is and the lower the temp you need to work at. 

[jimb0]

7 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

 make a peanut butter gianduja

 

i just need a big spoon and to be alone with my shame thanks

[pastrygirl]

22 minutes ago, jimb0 said:

 

i just need a big spoon and to be alone with my shame thanks

 

It's my favorite thing that I make.  The  addition of crispy feuilletine makes it even more addictive.  2 parts milk chocolate to 1 part natural PB (I use Adam's Creamy) by weight sets up quite firmly.  I can cut it on the guitar when it's just right but I've broken plenty of strings when I've let it get too firm.

 

I also make a white chocolate coconut concoction that's kind of a pain because it seems like it's never going to solidify, but it always does, eventually, with more stirring, chilling, and EZ temper silk.

[Altay.Oro]

Quote

I don't think so.  I make a peanut butter gianduja for which I stir tempered chocolate into peanut butter, but I also sometimes melt down the scraps and re-temper them and the result is the same.  It's all about the cocoa butter.

 

Other fats and oils soften cocoa butter, and the more you add, the softer the mix is and the lower the temp you need to work at. 

 

Same with you ... in my tests, I haven't seen any noticeable difference as well ... but Peter Greweling, Ewald Notter and some other chocolatiers in the recipes in their books always use melted chocolate and are tempering gianduja at the end of the process. Maybe it is just a habit coming from producing gianduja in bulk quantities with big melangeurs.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Altay.Oro (log)

[jimb0]

19 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

It's my favorite thing that I make.  The  addition of crispy feuilletine makes it even more addictive.  2 parts milk chocolate to 1 part natural PB (I use Adam's Creamy) by weight sets up quite firmly.  I can cut it on the guitar when it's just right but I've broken plenty of strings when I've let it get too firm.

 

I also make a white chocolate coconut concoction that's kind of a pain because it seems like it's never going to solidify, but it always does, eventually, with more stirring, chilling, and EZ temper silk.

 

ahhhhhh. want.

 

i'm always paranoid about my nut ganaches setting up, but they always do, eventually. usually after i've convinced myself it won't work.

Edited March 1, 2021 by jimb0 (log)

[Jim D.]

6 minutes ago, jimb0 said:

 

ahhhhhh. want.

 

i'm always paranoid about my nut ganaches setting up, but they always do, eventually. usually after i've convinced myself it won't work.

 

Me too.  Often it seems impossible how much they crystallize overnight.  Sometimes I am looking for a softer texture, but that is difficult (nearly impossible) to predict.

 

I can attest to the deliciousness of pastrygirl's peanut butter gianduja.  I think she has mail order possibilities.  😉

[Rajala]

I always temper with these figures. Never an issue

 

[DJ Silverchild]

Thank you everyone

[Kerry Beal]

On 3/1/2021 at 10:24 AM, DJ Silverchild said:

At least I think it is. I will be making my version of a Ferrero rocher.

I made a 50/50 caramel to hazelnut praline paste mixture and I'm adding it to milk chocolate, and that mixture is 50% chocolate and 50% praline paste. I'm using the EZ Temper but it's too soft and didn't seem to temper. Once upon a time I had issues tempering Valrhona gianduja and this forum suggested tempering at a very low temp, it worked, and it saved the day. But I wasnt using EZ Temper then, and EZ Temper says to do everything at 92.5 degrees. My questions are:
Will my mixture not temper at all? The Valrhona is a professional product and I'm doing this from scratch.

Should I do it at a lower temperature?

You can temper at a lower temperature using the EZtemper - while you certainly can start at 92.3 for gianduja - I probably use 28º C (82º F) for gianduja or meltaway more to save the cooling down time. 

[InfinityCandies]

On 3/1/2021 at 11:12 AM, Jim D. said:

 

In my experience selecting the ratio of chocolate and nut paste is tricky and varies depending on the consistency of the paste.  I buy hazelnut praline paste from Cacao Barry (50% nuts, 50% sugar) and mix it with chocolate (dark or milk) with twice as much paste as chocolate.  This is what Peter Greweling recommends.  With almond praline paste (which I make myself), however, I find that I have to use 400g chocolate and 500g paste--more chocolate because the almond paste is much more fluid.  To be honest, I must say that I no longer worry too much about tempering the gianduja.  For one thing, it's impossible to test it for temper.  I get the mixture below 93F, then add cocoa butter silk and stir.  When it begins to thicken a bit, I use it.  When ordinarily I would be piping the gianduja into molds, I instead use a confectionery funnel--which has turned out to be one of the best chocolate-related purchases I have ever made.  I can fill the cavities without spilling a drop.  But it's crucial not to wait too long for the gianduja to get too viscous.  When I want to see in advance how the gianduja will turn out, I do what Chocolot suggested:  stir it over cold water (even ice water) and let it get really thick, then put a little in the refrigerator and see how it is going to turn out.  Then, of course, I have to reheat it gently to get it back to pouring/piping condition.  This next point is probably an obvious one, but I'll include it anyway:  I find gianduja an incredibly "forgiving" product.  You can reheat it innumerable times, test it (as described above), then add more chocolate or more paste to get the consistency you wish.  Another note:  it gets considerably more solid as it sits and I usually wait a day before doing anything more with the molds.  If you are using a guitar to cut a gianduja slab, it's very tricky to get just the right moment to cut it (bitter experience speaking here).

 

I'm not sure why your gianduja was too fluid.  Did you make your own hazelnut praline paste or purchase it?  In any case, I would simply add more chocolate to the gianduja and see if it improves.  I can almost guarantee that by adding chocolate or paste you will eventually get the consistency you want, but this may require testing.  Another option which I have used is to add some coconut oil to the gianduja.  But since this keeps its consistency softer, this is obviously not your issue with this particular batch.

Have a question I wonder if you can answer. First time user of gianduja.  I have a layer in a recipe that I’m stuck at (Wybaum’s). He’s making these as a layer that sets up; I want to make as a pipeable ganache. 
• 200g praliné

• 200g gianduja

• 120 g milk chocolate 

 

he notes mix the praline together with the precrystallized gianduja and milk chocolate … [ and pour into the frame].

 

Are the gianduja AND milk chocolate precrystallized (tempered) together? Or just one of them?  
help.

[Kerry Beal]

Either way will work.

 

 

[Jim D.]

3 hours ago, InfinityCandies said:

Have a question I wonder if you can answer. First time user of gianduja.  I have a layer in a recipe that I’m stuck at (Wybaum’s). He’s making these as a layer that sets up; I want to make as a pipeable ganache. 
• 200g praliné

• 200g gianduja

• 120 g milk chocolate 

 

he notes mix the praline together with the precrystallized gianduja and milk chocolate … [ and pour into the frame].

 

Are the gianduja AND milk chocolate precrystallized (tempered) together? Or just one of them?  
help.

 

I'm not sure if you are using the term "ganache" as a synonym for "filling," or you want to end up with an actual ganache.  If the latter, then you need to add a liquid (ordinarily cream) and mix it with the gianduja.  If you want a pipeable gianduja, then you have to experiment with adding more nut paste and/or coconut oil to soften the final product.

 

I'm a bit confused by the ingredient list.  Gianduja is a mixture of ground nuts and chocolate.  Praliné as Wybauw uses it is a nut paste with ground caramel.  In the example of hazelnuts, I make what I call hazelnut praline gianduja by mixing hazelnut praline paste (approx. 50-50 hazelnuts and caramel) with chocolate.  I assume the 120g milk chocolate is extra chocolate (beyond what the gianduja already includes).  As I wrote in my earlier post to which you referred, it is difficult to predict the texture of a gianduja.  The Cacao Barry hazelnut praline paste is quite thick and so doesn't need as much chocolate to make it firm enough.  On the other hand, the almond praline paste I made in my new melanger is rather fluid and requires much more chocolate mixed with it.  A Canadian professional chocolatier I consulted recently said he has suspicions that some commercial praline pastes contain sugar in some form rather than hard-crack caramel that has been ground up, and that explains their viscosity.

 

The only method I know for predicting the final viscosity of a gianduja is to test it by cooling a bit of it.  Then go back and add what you need (more chocolate or more nut paste) and heat it again.  As I said previously, gianduja appears to be very forgiving.

 

As for tempering it, if you have or are able to purchase an EZtemper, that is the foolproof way.  You add a bit of "silk" (it doesn't take much), then stir.  You will notice the gianduja thicken almost immediately.  There is no way I have ever heard of to test whether it is in temper.  Before I had an EZtemper, I stirred the gianduja over cool water until it began to thicken.  The tried-and-true way is to table it, but I have never done that.  Chocolate expert Michael Laiskonis writes:   "Tempering is still important, and all of the typical methods can be used for traditional gianduja. I also temper the softer spread, typically on marble as indicated, or with 1% stable cocoa butter crystals from our EZ-Temper unit."  Since tempering is for the benefit of cacao butter (so to speak), I assume that using tempered chocolate and keeping the gianduja mixture below the melting point of Type V crystals would serve the purpose.

 

If I have misunderstood your question, please clarify.

[InfinityCandies]

51 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

 

I'm not sure if you are using the term "ganache" as a synonym for "filling," or you want to end up with an actual ganache.  If the latter, then you need to add a liquid (ordinarily cream) and mix it with the gianduja.  If you want a pipeable gianduja, then you have to experiment with adding more nut paste and/or coconut oil to soften the final product.

 

I'm a bit confused by the ingredient list.  Gianduja is a mixture of ground nuts and chocolate.  Praliné as Wybauw uses it is a nut paste with ground caramel.  In the example of hazelnuts, I make what I call hazelnut praline gianduja by mixing hazelnut praline paste (approx. 50-50 hazelnuts and caramel) with chocolate.  I assume the 120g milk chocolate is extra chocolate (beyond what the gianduja already includes).  As I wrote in my earlier post to which you referred, it is difficult to predict the texture of a gianduja.  The Cacao Barry hazelnut praline paste is quite thick and so doesn't need as much chocolate to make it firm enough.  On the other hand, the almond praline paste I made in my new melanger is rather fluid and requires much more chocolate mixed with it.  A Canadian professional chocolatier I consulted recently said he has suspicions that some commercial praline pastes contain sugar in some form rather than hard-crack caramel that has been ground up, and that explains their viscosity.

 

The only method I know for predicting the final viscosity of a gianduja is to test it by cooling a bit of it.  Then go back and add what you need (more chocolate or more nut paste) and heat it again.  As I said previously, gianduja appears to be very forgiving.

 

As for tempering it, if you have or are able to purchase an EZtemper, that is the foolproof way.  You add a bit of "silk" (it doesn't take much), then stir.  You will notice the gianduja thicken almost immediately.  There is no way I have ever heard of to test whether it is in temper.  Before I had an EZtemper, I stirred the gianduja over cool water until it began to thicken.  The tried-and-true way is to table it, but I have never done that.  Chocolate expert Michael Laiskonis writes:   "Tempering is still important, and all of the typical methods can be used for traditional gianduja. I also temper the softer spread, typically on marble as indicated, or with 1% stable cocoa butter crystals from our EZ-Temper unit."  Since tempering is for the benefit of cacao butter (so to speak), I assume that using tempered chocolate and keeping the gianduja mixture below the melting point of Type V crystals would serve the purpose.

 

If I have misunderstood your question, please clarify.

Yes I was actually looking for a “filling” with this recipe, not a true ganache made with cream.  I was under the impression that his use of the term precrystallize is the same as temper.  I’m so used to making cream ganaches which just require pouring your cream over hard, tempered chocolate, I realized I need to warm something up in this recipe, but must the gianduja be tempered? Honestly I have a tempering machine. I would throw it in there if need be.  I thought I could simply warm it (and the chocolate -not temper the chocolate-) up to, say 93’ F, add the other praline and and cool down to 83-86’ F before filling in my molds. Thoughts?

[Kerry Beal]

If you don't temper gianduja - you can get inconsistent texture - and increased fat migration.

 

 

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, InfinityCandies said:

Yes I was actually looking for a “filling” with this recipe, not a true ganache made with cream.  I was under the impression that his use of the term precrystallize is the same as temper.  I’m so used to making cream ganaches which just require pouring your cream over hard, tempered chocolate, I realized I need to warm something up in this recipe, but must the gianduja be tempered? Honestly I have a tempering machine. I would throw it in there if need be.  I thought I could simply warm it (and the chocolate -not temper the chocolate-) up to, say 93’ F, add the other praline and and cool down to 83-86’ F before filling in my molds. Thoughts?

 

As Kerry said, yes, the gianduja has to be tempered.  In my opinion, it's not exactly the same as tempering chocolate. You can't test the temper of gianduja.  Why not start with tempered chocolate and melt it carefully so as not to go too much over 93F?  When you deal with chocolate already in temper, remember that it's OK for the chocolate to go to a slightly higher temp as long as some of it is still unmelted (that "seed" will temper whatever may have gone higher).  Then add the other ingredients (warm but not over the temp of the chocolate) and heat carefully.  When everything is melted, keep stirring as the gianduja cools.  When it's down to working temp, it should be in temper.

[InfinityCandies]

1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

 

As Kerry said, yes, the gianduja has to be tempered.  In my opinion, it's not exactly the same as tempering chocolate. You can't test the temper of gianduja.  Why not start with tempered chocolate and melt it carefully so as not to go too much over 93F?  When you deal with chocolate already in temper, remember that it's OK for the chocolate to go to a slightly higher temp as long as some of it is still unmelted (that "seed" will temper whatever may have gone higher).  Then add the other ingredients (warm but not over the temp of the chocolate) and heat carefully.  When everything is melted, keep stirring as the gianduja cools.  When it's down to working temp, it should be in temper.

Great instructions!!! That all makes sense now. Will try that method.