minimum fat/shortening/butter/lard pie crust

[AlaMoi]

anyone tried reducing the fat content of pie crust to a minimum?

(it's the LDL thing....)

 

the typical old school recipes use one stick of butter (4oz) per crust....

 

I've reduced the butter in - for example - drop biscuits from 6 T to 3 T - the only effect noted is less butter dripping off the sheet and smoking up the house when it burns on the oven floor....  taste/texture seems to be unchanged at 50%

 

we enjoy homemade pot pies of every sort - so I've been looking for a way to avoid two full stick = 1/2 pound of fat/butter in a double crusted pot pie.....

 

 

 

[jimb0]

i'm mildly horrified that your biscuits leak so much butter, but that's neither here nor there. drop biscuits would definitely be the easiest ones to reduce fat in, imo, so a good choice.

 

what's your original recipe for pie dough, out of curiosity? i always stick to the standard 3:2:1 flour:butter:water, with a pinch of salt. 

 

personally without using some high-tech food replacements, i don't think you can really lower the amount of butter in a pie dough and still have something that tastes / eats like pie dough. it can still be good, no doubt! but it's not going to be like a classic pie crust. so one options is to just cut the butter and be okay with a breadier pie crust.

 

i think you have two good options, though. one is to use less dough. that's not quite what you want, i know, but you can instead use the dough to really good effect. like, instead of doing two big crusts for a pot pie, make your filling as a stew, which is 90% of the pot pie experience. then serve it with individual and separately baked rounds of pie crust, allowing you to enjoy the buttery, rich pie crust either on its own or with the stew.

 

the other option would be to consider something like a phyllo dough, which won't be rich and buttery, but might get you the crunch you're looking for in a good pie crust.

 

 

 

[AlaMoi]

well, 3:2:1....52 g

in cups, 3 cups flour+2 cups butter+1 cup water.

 

KA AP flour they list as 120g

butter comes in a 8 ounces/cup = 226g

 

so -

360 g flour

452 g butter

~250 g water

 

I've never ever used 1 cup of water = 70% hydration - for a pie crust. 

so something is seriously misunderstood here.

 

for top&bottom i.e. two crusts - my classic is 3 c flour + 2 sticks/8 ounces butter = water as needed - which is done in tablespoons, not cups.

it's half the butter of the 3:2:1 ratio.

 

I have indeed considered simply rolling the pie dough thin thin thin and using 50% - ie one crust amount for both top & bottom.

the other option I'm leaning toward is:  no bottom crust, just a top crust.

 

using water/vodka/pixie milk.... I'm open to any ideas....

I'm also willing to sacrifice the pretty browning for a functional good tasting crust.

I suspect a zero fat crust could be 'brushed' with melted butter and 'look the same'

 

[AAQuesada]

3:2:1 by weight 
 

INGREDIENTS

• 12 ounces All purpose flour about 2-3/4 cups 
• 1 tsp Salt
• 2 Tbsp Sugar
• 8 ounces Fat butter, lard, shortening or combo
• 4-5 ounces ice cold water about 1/2 to 2/3 cupIce cold water
   
• https://thegourmandiseschool.com/recipe/evans-3-2-1-pie-crust/

Edited February 9, 2021 by AAQuesada (log)

[jimb0]

bingo. it's by weight, it's the classic ratio, and it works beautifully.

 

you can't make a zero fat pie crust, and it won't look the same either. that's just called bread. if you want to bake stew inside of bread, you can, and it works very well! i make these things i call "stuffs" (because they're stuffed, get it) and often use leftover stews that i thicken up; it's basically a stuffed roll or bun with meat or cheese or vegetables, or all three. but it's bread, not a pie crust. pie crusts have fat, they need fat, it's a fundamental aspect of their nature. you can probably reduce it slightly, but you'll pay for it with a tougher texture. i recommend just making a normal pie crust and not eating a lot of it.

[weinoo]

I would just make regular pie crusts, and give up something else. How much pie does one eat...constantly?

 

Or start taking a statin.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, weinoo said:

I would just make regular pie crusts, and give up something else. How much pie does one eat...constantly?

 

Or start taking a statin.

 

Or eat the pie and tell your doctor you don't want to take a statin.

 

[AAQuesada]

Niacin works for me lol. 

[JeanneCake]

You could look at vegan pie crusts - they most likely use a vegan shortening/butter substitute or the one on the blog My Quiet Kitchen has one that is GF, DF and oil free.  I looked at it a while ago when we had someone ask for a DF/GF fruit tart 😉 but then they decided against it so we didn't end up making it.  (It uses almond flour if a nut allergy  is an issue)

[weinoo]

52 minutes ago, JeanneCake said:

You could look at vegan pie crusts - they most likely use a vegan shortening/butter substitute or the one on the blog My Quiet Kitchen has one that is GF, DF and oil free.  I looked at it a while ago when we had someone ask for a DF/GF fruit tart 😉 but then they decided against it so we didn't end up making it.  (It uses almond flour if a nut allergy  is an issue)

And this is why cooking for others is a pain in the ass. Even though it wasn't always so.

[weinoo]

8 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Or eat the pie and tell your doctor you don't want to take a statin.

 

 

Yeah, this is my go-to. But he's so ready to write the prescription with his pen he no doubt got from the statin company.

[jimb0]

2 hours ago, JeanneCake said:

You could look at vegan pie crusts - they most likely use a vegan shortening/butter substitute or the one on the blog My Quiet Kitchen has one that is GF, DF and oil free.  I looked at it a while ago when we had someone ask for a DF/GF fruit tart 😉 but then they decided against it so we didn't end up making it.  (It uses almond flour if a nut allergy  is an issue)

 

but op's issue is fat, and there's really no way that they have anything approximating a traditional pie crust that is also low in fat. it might be a vegan fat (e.g., almond flour), but it's still fat. i bet it's delicious - almond flour is tasty - but i've never had anything from anyone made with almond flour that ate like a traditional pie crust. i expect it's more akin to  a chewy cookie or graham cracker crust in texture (which is not necessarily a complaint, all those are delicious, but they aren't really pie crusts in the sense of them here, i think).

Edited February 10, 2021 by jimb0 (log)

[kayb]

A couple of other ideas for reducing the amount of crust used:

 

• Instead of two crusts, use one, roll bigger than needed, trim the edges and use the trimmings as "dumplings" stirred in with the filing.
• Make a lattice top and use trimmings for dumplings, also leaving off the bottom crust

Vegetable shortening might make for lower cholesterol. There is a "butter flavored" one that's moderately tasty; I've used it in biscuits.

[AlaMoi]

lots of good points.  I think the most 'best' approach is simply the "use less" idea.

one crust done very thin....

 

I am going to try reducing the fat, though.  just wondered if anyone had already tried it.

 

btw, I've done an almond crust for a lemon tart - veddy tasty:

[Susanwusan]

I'd like to make this recipe tomorrow and don't have time to experiment https://www.food.com/recipe/gingerbread-cookies-large-batch-397494 .  Will it work if I use butter instead of vegetable shortening?  I have to make stars with a hole in the top to hang on a tree.

[JeanneCake]

I think it should be fine; you'll get a little more spread with butter so if you can chill the cut out cookies that will help.  The recipe has you rest the dough overnight to help hydrate the flour; we do this with our gingerbread cookie dough (which is from Rose's Christmas Cookies, we routinely scale this up to a 9x batch size and mix in our 30 qt Hobart)  and it's an all butter recipe.  If you find this recipe online, it's easy to make, and the taste is not too spicy so it's fine for kids and adults.

 

Edited to add: you will likely have to remake the hole when you take them out of the oven; do this before the cookies cool

Edited November 13, 2022 by JeanneCake (log)

[AAQuesada]

You really want to use a solid shortening if at all possible (lard, crisco, coconut oil-solid not liquid) butter being 18%ish water is a problem and with out the water butter is brittle. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

40 minutes ago, AAQuesada said:

You really want to use a solid shortening if at all possible (lard, crisco, coconut oil-solid not liquid) butter being 18%ish water is a problem and with out the water butter is brittle. 

 

What do you mean by brittle?

 

[AAQuesada]

As in not flexible. I guess what I’m trying to say is that even if you take out all of the water and clarified butter that it is still not going to act the same as a solid shortening in pastry

[Susanwusan]

28 minutes ago, AAQuesada said:

As in not flexible. I guess what I’m trying to say is that even if you take out all of the water and clarified butter that it is still not going to act the same as a solid shortening in pastry

I did wonder about clarifying the butter.

[Susanwusan]

By the way, thanks everyone for your quick replies! 🙂