Knife sharpening

[palo]

I thought you would use it the same way a barber would

 

p

[Laurentius]

7 minutes ago, palo said:

I thought you would use it the same way a barber would

 

Yes, you would--you pull the edge off the leather (or the strop off the edge).

 

It's pretty funny to see strops in junk and antique shops, because they usually show the cuts imparted when someone got it backwards.

[paulraphael]

1 hour ago, Laurentius said:

 

Yes, you would--you pull the edge off the leather (or the strop off the edge).

 

It's pretty funny to see strops in junk and antique shops, because they usually show the cuts imparted when someone got it backwards.

It's very easy to cut a strop, even if you know how to use it. It can happen when you start to go fast, and are just a little sloppy when you set the edge down at the beginning of a new stroke. Leather is very soft for a knife. My old strop is kind of embarrassing looking.

 

I used to strop as a final polishing step. I'd go from a 10K Naniwa finishing stone to a horsehide strop loaded with just a pit of 1-micron (I think) diamond abrasive. It's a polishing step, not a deburring step. You don't risk rounding the edge like you would if you acted like an old-timey barber. Technically, you're going to round the edge a tiny bit because the edge will sink a bit into the leather. But also technically, you round the edge a bit whenever you sharpen by hand, because you're not a robot and can't hold perfect angles. This doesn't seem to stop anyone from getting killer edges.

 

I stopped stropping recently. Jon at Japanese Knife Imports encouraged me to try finishing at lower grit, and skipping the strop. I'm not getting the insanely refined edge I used to get ... the kind of thing that would drop through a tomato under its own weight. But I get a longer lasting, functional edge. A super polished edge seems to depend on being perfect; as soon as it wears a bit, all the magic is gone. I now stop after a 6000 grit stone. No strop. In exchange for that last little bit of refinement, I get an edge that continues to cut well for hours. 

[palo]

I usually use my jeans as a strop after steeling, needles to say I don't use any paste

 

p

[Laurentius]

12 hours ago, paulraphael said:

You don't risk rounding the edge like you would if you acted like an old-timey barber.

 

As if a rounded edge is a bad thing!  Some of the sharpest edges I've ever seen are convex.  The reason you don't see many is that few pro and almost no at-home sharpeners have the skillset and feel to do them right.

 

Also, there's a huge difference between a traditional barber's strop (essentially slack belt grinding) and a truly flat backing (i.e., against a wheel or platen).

 

Frankly, sharpening to extremely fine grit size is mostly fetishistic.  A little tooth gets the job done.  A worn, coarse (e.g., 80 grit) belt does a surprisingly good job--if you can hear a hiss on the belt, that's all the pressure needed.

[palo]

1 minute ago, Laurentius said:

 

 

A little tooth gets the job done.  A worn, coarse (e.g., 80 grit) belt does a surprisingly good job--if you can hear a hiss on the belt, that's all the pressure needed.

or a pair of jeans - I can notice the difference

 

p

[Laurentius]

3 minutes ago, palo said:

or a pair of jeans - I can notice the difference

 

p

 

Sure.  People seldom appreciate how abrasive even "soft" materials can be on a steel edge.

 

[AlaMoi]

"convex" edge sharpening is utterly duck soup.

 

made these for my kids - who 'decline' kitchen technical stuff . . . based on Chad Ward's pubs . . .

the "side lever" is a simple guide for steep=chef / not steep=slicer angles.

(not shown) wet dry paper clamped, resides on top of the mouse pad (the blue bit...)

 

[Laurentius]

5 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

"convex" edge sharpening is utterly duck soup.

 

made these for my kids - who 'decline' kitchen technical stuff . . . based on Chad Ward's pubs . . .

the "side lever" is a simple guide for steep=chef / not steep=slicer angles.

(not shown) wet dry paper clamped, resides on top of the mouse pad (the blue bit...)

 

 

So the sharpening stroke is across the sheet, toward the clamp/block, or what?

[weinoo]

19 hours ago, palo said:

or a pair of jeans - I can notice the difference

 

p

 

If you swipe too high up on those jeans, and the knife slips, you may end up really noticing the difference.

[AlaMoi]

the stroke is from the clamp end toward the free end.

the clamp holds the abrasive - stroking toward the clamp will crinkle the abrasive sheet....

 

for long knives you traverse the length while stroking away from the clamp.

 

[palo]

2 hours ago, weinoo said:

 

If you swipe too high up on those jeans, and the knife slips, you may end up really noticing the difference.

OOPS!!!

 

p

[Laurentius]

8 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

the stroke is from the clamp end toward the free end.

 

OK, that's normal stropping.  What grits are you using this way? 

[dcarch]

12 hours ago, weinoo said:

 

If you swipe too high up on those jeans, and the knife slips, you may end up really noticing the difference.

The long and short of it, knifes are dangerous. Handle with care.

 

dcarch 🙂

[AlaMoi]

1 hour ago, Laurentius said:

 

OK, that's normal stropping.  What grits are you using this way? 

 

depends on the knife condition - all bunged up, 200 grit wet/dry.  a touch up, 600 grit wet dry.

for a close shave, 1000 grit . . .

[paulraphael]

On 1/17/2024 at 11:53 AM, Laurentius said:

 

As if a rounded edge is a bad thing!  Some of the sharpest edges I've ever seen are convex.  The reason you don't see many is that few pro and almost no at-home sharpeners have the skillset and feel to do them right.

I'd suggest that all edges are rounded, unless they were made with an Edge Pro or other guide system. No one's hands are steady enough to make a flat bevel on a kitchen knife. A stop will automatically make a slightly rounded microbevel. You can see it with your electron microscope. 

[rotuts]

@paulraphael

 

I completely agree.

 

years ago I had an electric low speed Makita wet stone system 

 

circular stones , went to 1000 grit ( a white wet stone )

 

https://www.amazon.com/Makita-98202-Horizontal-Wheel-Sharpener/dp/B0000223JC/ref=asc_df_B0000223JC/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309763890402&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7310887201011870101&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001873&hvtargid=pla-569811470328&psc=1&mcid=0b2312b4997b3ee5a7850904be11012a&gclid=CjwKCAiA8NKtBhBtEiwAq5aX2E9cFiRCzm7M1Bx3pQ3kImVMd9ym_JQFeiWdKl52pNswzPQPbgb97hoCtqsQAvD_BwE

 

for fun I made a circular disc and glued on a circular piece pf leather

 

and used the green grit polishing paste on that

 

the system wa designs for wood shop tools and the like

 

chisels , lathe tools

 

gave my chisels a stunning edge.

 

w EdgePeo  past 600 - 800  isn't really going to help you much in the kitchen

 

unless you have knives similar to

 

Watanabe's  , which are thin and can hold a 1000 grit edge.

 

when you cut yourself w a 1000 grit Watanabe edge 

 

you hardly notice , except for the blood everywhere

 

but then all you have to do ,is tape up the wounds  edges , the cut is so clean

 

and mop up the blood.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27 by rotuts (log)

[Laurentius]

9 hours ago, paulraphael said:

all edges are rounded, unless they were made with an Edge Pro or other guide system

 

Not really.  When they're out of your sight, they get put against a platen or wheel.

 

But I wasn't talking about the artifacts that one can only see under microscopy.    

[blue_dolphin]

On 9/21/2020 at 6:13 AM, weinoo said:

Acquisition phase is what I appear to be in on a daily basis.

 

Forget to mention that I sent 5 rarely used knives (1 cleaver) to Knife Aid.  Total turnaround time, from me dropping off at the post office, was 6 days - kind of amazed me, since they're going to California and back.

 

They came back razor sharp, with probably a little more metal removed than had I done them on an Edge Pro, which might've taken as long as the turnaround time.

 

Obviously late to the party but I may have missed reporting that I've been happy with the sharpening that I've had done at Knife Aid. I have an Edge Pro but sometimes I'm just lazy.  I agree with @weinoo that they may have taken a little more metal off than I might have with the Edge Pro but, on the upside,  they've given extra life to some serrated and bread knives that I can't sharpen myself. They won't last forever, but I've gotten at least a couple of more years out of some favorites. I used their mail-in service earlier in the pandemic and found the turn-around very acceptable. Since then, I've taken my knives in to their shop and have been able to speak with an apparently knowledgable staff person.  Since they're local, I can usually pick up the same day or the next day, depending on when I get there. 

I believe they are doing well and currently have a contract to do knife sharpening for Williams Sonoma, Macy's and Crate & Barrel. 

A reasonable option to consider if you are local or don't have a similar service in your area. 

[AlaMoi]

I do my "serrated" / "scallop" bread knife - zippo issues.

 

wrap some wet/dry fine paper around a dowel/round pencil - touch up each scallopl

ooh, the horrors of it , , , takes at least 10 minutes for a ten inch bread knife.

 

otoh, my Edge-Pro does a super job on my chef's and slicers....

[haresfur]

Decided to make another attempt at learning to sharpen with stones. I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker which is ok for some things. I realised I needed to start over when the 1000 grit stone I had been using to learn was incredibly dished but the knives weren't exactly sharp. I had shelved that for a while.

 

Anyone running a sharpening service where I live seems to be in the tool destroying business. Except maybe for the people sharpening sheep-shears, but that's a whole other ball game.

 

So I bought a 500 grit Shapton glass and a 1000 grit Shapton Rockstar and realised, in for a penny, in for a pound, I needed an Atoma diamond flattening plate. Then spent a few days watching videos, which of course don't agree with each other so you have to figure out who seems to make the most sense.

 

Haven't tackled the good knives yet but some of the cheap ones turned out much better than they were, although not what I would consider really good. One of the things I learned is that starting with a relatively coarse stone is a good idea. Much easier to figure out if you are screwing up the angle or haven't apexed yet. Feeling a burr is much more obvious to me. Once that is right, it doesn't take too much with the 1000 to get an ok edge. I feel like I'm a long way from wanting to attempt my carbon steel petty, though.

 

I can see how people get into sharpening as a hobby but frankly, I just want to be able to do a decent job slicing a tomato.

[paulraphael]

6 hours ago, haresfur said:

Decided to make another attempt at learning to sharpen with stones. I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker which is ok for some things. I realised I needed to start over when the 1000 grit stone I had been using to learn was incredibly dished but the knives weren't exactly sharp. I had shelved that for a while.

 

Anyone running a sharpening service where I live seems to be in the tool destroying business. Except maybe for the people sharpening sheep-shears, but that's a whole other ball game.

 

So I bought a 500 grit Shapton glass and a 1000 grit Shapton Rockstar and realised, in for a penny, in for a pound, I needed an Atoma diamond flattening plate. Then spent a few days watching videos, which of course don't agree with each other so you have to figure out who seems to make the most sense.

 

Haven't tackled the good knives yet but some of the cheap ones turned out much better than they were, although not what I would consider really good. One of the things I learned is that starting with a relatively coarse stone is a good idea. Much easier to figure out if you are screwing up the angle or haven't apexed yet. Feeling a burr is much more obvious to me. Once that is right, it doesn't take too much with the 1000 to get an ok edge. I feel like I'm a long way from wanting to attempt my carbon steel petty, though.

 

I can see how people get into sharpening as a hobby but frankly, I just want to be able to do a decent job slicing a tomato.

 

You can get good at it without it becoming a hobby or obsession. I don't especially like sharpening. What I found is that it took a couple of months of practice to get decent. Meaning, there was a lot to learn still, but already my knives would work better than when they were new, or when sharpened by some jackhat. 

 

One tip: if you don't want to buy that diamond plate, you can get a cheap stone flattener. That too will dish ... you can flatten it by rubbing on a concrete sidewalk. 

[rotuts]

at some point you might find a jig system helpful

 

the jig simply helps eliminate hand ' wobble '

 

for flattening ' stones '

 

rub against a similar stone of the same grit.

 

w a system like EdgePro

 

a second stone is not that expensive , over time.