Dough hook not grabbing dough

[CanadianHomeChef]

Hello everyone,

 

I’m making some pizza dough today in my Kitchenaid stand mixer.   An ongoing issue that I’ve had with recipes that call for the dough hook is that the dough will rarely be hooked. Instead the dough will be slapped around the edges of the bowl by the hook. Sometimes if I push the dough down I can get it to hook for a good 30 seconds or so. 

 

I’m just wondering whether or not the dough actually needs to hook to be kneaded properly? It seems to get a better work out when hooked but it’s still being worked when it’s just being pushed to the side of the bowl. 

 

Today I’m making the neopolitan pizza dough in Modernist Cuisine at Home, and running into this issue. 

 

Recipes seem to to turn out fine, but it’s always been something I’ve wondered about. 

[pastrygirl]

I think it's better if the dough is either on the hook being slapped around or has formed a ball that is being pushed around the bowl.  Dough mashed against the sides might be getting punched regularly but ...

 

I'm guessing your dough is on the stiff side?  It could probably stand more water, so try this:  after you scrape the dough off the sides of the bowl, add a TB of water.  The dough will slide around until it is all gathered on the hook and the water will slowly incorporate in.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

My guess is there is too little dough for the size of the bowl.  I use a KitchenAid 5 quart bowl and for best results I have to scale up the MB recipes.  Since that results in too much bread, often as not I make do and suffer.

 

[Chris Hennes]

If it's a relatively slack dough increasing the mixer speed so the dough doesn't have time to stick to the sides of the bowl can work. I mix the Modernist Bread sourdough recipe (71% hydration) at something like speed 5 or 6 on my KA.

[Okanagancook]

The use of a water spray bottle works really well for adding moisture to doughs.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

6 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

If it's a relatively slack dough increasing the mixer speed so the dough doesn't have time to stick to the sides of the bowl can work. I mix the Modernist Bread sourdough recipe (71% hydration) at something like speed 5 or 6 on my KA.

 

For how long?

 

[Chris Hennes]

9 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

For how long?

I don't know. More than five minutes, less than ten?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

3 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

I don't know. More than five minutes, less than ten?

 

That sounds like an awful lot of revolutions but your results are beautiful.  Do you use similar for French Lean Bread?

 

[Chris Hennes]

5 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Do you use similar for French Lean Bread?

No, that's a lower hydration dough, I mix it at low speed to medium gluten development, then add the salt and mix at medium for a couple minutes more (I do the same for the sandwich bread, which I make much more often than the French Lean).

[JoNorvelleWalker]

6 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

No, that's a lower hydration dough, I mix it at low speed to medium gluten development, then add the salt and mix at medium for a couple minutes more (I do the same for the sandwich bread, which I make much more often than the French Lean).

 

The proof is in the pudding.

 

 

 

Tonight I made a batch akin to French Lean Bread but I mixed for exactly 5 minutes on speed 6.  I achieved the open pearlescent crumb that so often eludes me.  The dough was neither under proofed nor over proofed.  Indeed my boule achieved so much oven spring in the CSO it burnt on the top elements.  Never before has that happened.  I'm sort of delighted actually.

 

This is not the first time I've complained MB does not give much guidance for users of the KitchenAid, which are probably a high percentage of their audience.  Not all of us have Hobarts or spiral mixers yet.

 

The problem with mixing on lower speed in the KitchenAid, as @CanadianHomeChef reports, is the hook does not properly engage the dough.

[Eric Srikandan]

8 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

The proof is in the pudding.

 

 

 

 

Tonight I made a batch akin to French Lean Bread but I mixed for exactly 5 minutes on speed 6.  I achieved the open pearlescent crumb that so often eludes me.  The dough was neither under proofed nor over proofed.  Indeed my boule achieved so much oven spring in the CSO it burnt on the top elements.  Never before has that happened.  I'm sort of delighted actually.

 

This is not the first time I've complained MB does not give much guidance for users of the KitchenAid, which are probably a high percentage of their audience.  Not all of us have Hobarts or spiral mixers yet.

 

The problem with mixing on lower speed in the KitchenAid, as @CanadianHomeChef reports, is the hook does not properly engage the dough.

 

Beautiful looking loaf @JoNorvelleWalker - I find the same issue with mixing speeds using my Kenwood mixer - but in the end a bit of trial and improvement seems to get there. I tend to mix on speed min or 1 initially before autolysis, then take it to 3 or 4 for the final mix and mix for maybe 5 mins until it looks like a good stretchy mass.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I use the flat beater and speed 1 before autolysis.  The dough hook can't gather the stuff together.

 

[Chris Hennes]

2 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I use the flat beater and speed 1 before autolysis.  The dough hook can't gather the stuff together.

 

Yeah, I do the same.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Other than by hand, by chamber vacuum, or by bread machine I wondering if there isn't some good alternative to the dough hook for mixing bread?

 

Food processor doesn't count.

 

[lindag]

Since I’ve been making smaller bread recipes these last 10 years or so, I've been using my Zo bread machine for the mixing and kneading.  It's perfect for that and the cleanup is almost nothing.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

14 minutes ago, lindag said:

Since I’ve been making smaller bread recipes these last 10 years or so, I've been using my Zo bread machine for the mixing and kneading.  It's perfect for that and the cleanup is almost nothing.

 

I used to use my Zojirushi until I bought Modernist Bread.

 

[Chris Hennes]

Another data point along these lines, last night I made the MB recipe for Sangak, an Iranian flatbread with a 105% hydration dough -- I made a 500g batch and to get the KA 6-qt bowl lift dough hook to knead it effectively I had to turn the speed all the way up to 10.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Rereading Modernist bread tonight, they suggest doubling the 1 kg recipe if using an 8 quart KitchenAid (as I was) in order to get the spiral hook to grab.  Now that I have an Ankarsrum it is rather a moot point.

[AlaMoi]

well, one can hardly debate the issue of tiny dough ball in huge mixer bowl....

but that said, with a KSM5P and "standard" dough hook, it works.

 

keeping in mind - the dough hook is actually not supposed to tear through / divide / separate the dough at every revolution.

first it mixes, then it kneads.  banging a lump of dough against the bowl - imitation of what one does on a bench when "kneading" a hunk of dough....

but - - -  at a much higher squish-per-minute-rate.

 

my 5 capacity model does one pizza crust or one bread loaf qty without issue.

I can envision an 8 qt bowl not hooking up to 'standard' for 'one each' quantities....

[dans]

I didn't read the entire topic but have you checked to see if your bowl is adjusted properly?

 

Kitchenaid adjustment

[teonzo]

I strongly suggest to read the mixer's manual about the speed you can use for this kind of doughs. Going over speed 2 on a Kitchen Aid or Kenwood lead to high risks of breaking the gears in the medium/long term. Using speed 5 or 6 is not recommended.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, dans said:

I didn't read the entire topic but have you checked to see if your bowl is adjusted properly?

 

Kitchenaid adjustment

 

Yes.  I even returned one mixer because the bowl could not be adjusted properly.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, teonzo said:

I strongly suggest to read the mixer's manual about the speed you can use for this kind of doughs. Going over speed 2 on a Kitchen Aid or Kenwood lead to high risks of breaking the gears in the medium/long term. Using speed 5 or 6 is not recommended.

 

 

 

Teo

 

 

I feel that if you've paid for a commercial mixer you shouldn't have to baby it.  At speed 2 the hook does nothing.  Even my almost 35 year old KitchenAid has never had a gear problem.  (I think we've had this conversation before.)

 

[AAQuesada]

Those commercial KA's are not very good. your 35 yo is probably built better. Last time I had a choice I picked the Globe SP05 to replace a KA. We've had no problems since.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

16 minutes ago, AAQuesada said:

Those commercial KA's are not very good. your 35 yo is probably built better. Last time I had a choice I picked the Globe SP05 to replace a KA. We've had no problems since.

 

Do you have one?  I've had no problems with either KitchenAid.  And I don't treat them nicely.