Can someone please tell me how to make good espresso?

[rotuts]

possibly the grinder warms the beans just enough so they are above freezing when ground

 

a really good grinder adds as little heat as possible to the final product.

 

that wonderful smell of freshly ground coffee ?

 

you want that in your espresso.

 

so many conundrums here @ eG.

 

what I would't do is add Fz beans to the grinder's hopper.

 

sometimes I forget to roast.

 

I have Fz whole Vac's beans in the freezer.

 

I add the sealed pack to tap water and they thaw quickly to Room Temp

 

then I add those dry beans to the hopper.

[paulraphael]

The moisture content of roasted coffee is so low that I doubt frozen beans are especially tough. They're also not immune to changing. Freezing and vacuum packing slow down the changes but don't stop them. 

 

There's a new trend at the super high-end ... freezing green coffee beans in sealed bags, for storage and shipping to the roaster. Some are arguing that this will preserve more flavor. I have no doubt they're going to charge us for it!

Edited January 30, 2019 by paulraphael (log)

[rotuts]

Sweet Maria  had something to say about newer bags a while ago , but I can't recall if freezing was part of the newer process

 

 

[Strongsoul]

The point is to choose good beans or ground coffee for you. Because every kind of coffee has its own taste. I think, a good cup of espresso could be made with an ordinary coffee machine. You may use special options with a siphon. You may even use an ordinary espresso coffee machine. I believe everything depends only on the type of coffee beans and the quality of water you add in your coffee, it always should be fresh and clean. 

[Strongsoul]

3 hours ago, Strongsoul said:

The point is to choose good beans or ground coffee for you. Because every kind of coffee has its own taste. I think, a good cup of espresso could be made with an ordinary coffee machine. You may use special options with a siphon. You may even use an ordinary espresso coffee machine. I believe everything depends only on the type of coffee beans and the quality of water you add in your coffee, it always should be fresh and clean. 

I realized, that I didn't mention, that good espresso depends also on the way of grinding the coffee beans. If they'll be too coarsely, they'll spoil all the taste of your coffee. If they'll be too finely, they will crumble into your cup. You should choose the ay of grinding according your machine or filter. 

[rotuts]

no.

 

espresso requires a machine that turns the result into an emulsion 

 

the grind has to be ' just right '   or you get under or over extraction.

 

its not hard to learn how to do this at home, but you can't do it

 

with any old coffee machine.

[haresfur]

On 1/16/2019 at 10:09 AM, paulraphael said:

 

Yup. Freshly roasted beans are so full of CO2 they make terrible coffee. Some of it goes into solution, forming carbonic acid, which adds metallic bitter and sour notes. The rapid off-gassing when the hot water strikes also interferes with espresso extraction.

 

Exactly how long the beans should rest (and the maximum time they should be allowed to rest) is quite variable. Generally speaking, if you're making espresso you should rest longer than if you're making brewed coffee. And with lighter roasts you should rest longer than with darker roasts. 

 

My favorite coffee shop generally aims for 7 - 14 days off roast, in keeping with what Mitch says. They specialize in espresso, and roast on the light side.

 

Ah, interesting. I often get a metallic taste from coffee and have been trying to figure out why. Almost all coffee served in Australia is a fairly light roast but most shops I know do let it rest though. I think the extraction can have something to do with it - even to the point of different baristas (depending on the machine). I seem to be susceptible because other people don't notice it as much.

[liuzhou]

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/jan/22/maths-experts-secret-perfect-espresso

[weinoo]

22 hours ago, Strongsoul said:

The point is to choose good beans or ground coffee for you. Because every kind of coffee has its own taste. I think, a good cup of espresso could be made with an ordinary coffee machine. 

You'd probably be wrong.

[Chris Hennes]

Another writeup of the research that @liuzhou posted above (this one is a bit more technical, without being unapproachable):

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/01/the-math-of-brewing-a-better-espresso/

 

[Chris Hennes]

...and here's a link to the full paper: Systematically Improving Espresso: Insights from Mathematical Modeling and Experiment

 

Their research was conducted with the goals of reducing waste (e.g. using only as much coffee as is actually needed to produce a good espresso) and to improve reproducibility once you have decided on your own personal preferences for a flavor profile. There appear to be a couple of big takeaways in this research. In general,

• Use less coffee (15 grams instead of a more typical 20g)
• Use a medium grind (rather than the typical fine grind)

That said, in the press release the authors point out:

Quote

Though there are clear strategies to reduce waste and improve reproducibility, there is no obvious optimal espresso point. There is a tremendous dependency on the preferences of the person producing the coffee; we are elucidating the variables that they need to consider if they want to better navigate the parameter space of brewing espresso.

 

[weinoo]

I think that one of the main problems is simply one person's absolutely perfect espresso is another person's absolute drek.

 

 

[rotuts]

although interesting

 

it misses a very important point.

 

@weinoo  as mentioned above.

 

they do mention a few good points though

 

but Ive found , if you are using a ' bottom-less ' portafilter '

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqD_tnqtJiM

 

the thickness of the steam will tell you instantly how your extraction is going.

 

and w a very good grinder , one that can take very very very fine adjustments

 

one needs to adjust each days grind for the same coffee in the hopper

 

to get the ideal stream   and thus optimal espresso.

 

very odd , but very true.  the beans change day to day  , over several days.

 

and the grind needs to adjusted accordingly .

 

if the steam is too thin , the coffee is over-extracted and bitter

 

if the stream is too wide , is under-extracted and thus not full flavored or full bodied.

 

channeling is when the ' puck ' is not uniform and coffee works its way

 

vis least resistance and can spray all over the place.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by rotuts (log)

[nickrey]

22 hours ago, rotuts said:

although interesting

 

it misses a very important point.

 

@weinoo  as mentioned above.

 

they do mention a few good points though

 

but Ive found , if you are using a ' bottom-less ' portafilter '

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqD_tnqtJiM

 

the thickness of the steam will tell you instantly how your extraction is going.

 

and w a very good grinder , one that can take very very very fine adjustments

 

one needs to adjust each days grind for the same coffee in the hopper

 

to get the ideal stream   and thus optimal espresso.

 

very odd , but very true.  the beans change day to day  , over several days.

 

and the grind needs to adjusted accordingly .

 

if the steam is too thin , the coffee is over-extracted and bitter

 

if the stream is too wide , is under-extracted and thus not full flavored or full bodied.

 

channeling is when the ' puck ' is not uniform and coffee works its way

 

vis least resistance and can spray all over the place.

 

 

 

It's more changes in humidity than changes in the beans. Good coffee shops adjust their grind during the day to compensate for this. The beans don't change that quickly. 

[rotuts]

interesting idea.

 

i don't know what it is , and the humidity in my house is fairly constant

 

say 40 % at most .    Ill have to see if the changes are different in the summer

 

as I have no A/C .   but each day , say after day 2 or so , the tiniest adjustment is needed to get

 

the best espresso in the cup.

[Chris Hennes]

On 1/23/2020 at 7:40 AM, rotuts said:

it misses a very important point.

I don't think it misses it at all - they are specifically focused not on producing a specific flavor profile, but on reproducing the profile you like. So as @weinooputs it, if you like dreck, then their advice will help you make the same terrible espresso every time! IMO you can gloss the math sections of the paper and still get a lot out of it, it's really interesting work.

[weinoo]

I would certainly not have any problem experimenting with using less coffee than what seems to be the recent fascination.

 

It's funny, because to me some of the best espresso I've ever had has been while standing at a counter in a little shop in Rome, where your espresso is in front of you in a minute or less (as is your cornetto), and costs a euro or less. As opposed to the fancy one which takes 10 minutes to make, comes out to you fairly tepid, and cost $4.

 

Others would scoff at that, but location, location, location baby!

[rotuts]

@Chris Hennes 

 

we differ

 

and that's

 

fine

 

 

[paulraphael]

Beware of getting into pissing contests with food scientists. You'll say "I like it this way better than that way," and they'll say, "how do you know? Have you done a blind triangle test?"

 

If you haven't, you'd better be willing to. Otherwise you're likely just passing off cognitive biasses as opinions. 

 

Savvy chefs have figured this out. In many circles it's "triangle test or shut up."

[weinoo]

7 hours ago, paulraphael said:

Beware of getting into pissing contests with food scientists. You'll say "I like it this way better than that way," and they'll say, "how do you know? Have you done a blind triangle test?"

 

If you haven't, you'd better be willing to. Otherwise you're likely just passing off cognitive biasses as opinions. 

 

Savvy chefs have figured this out. In many circles it's "triangle test or shut up."

I prefer the octagonal.

[rotuts]

yes

 

Triangle Test.

 

Ive done this myself  

 

 

[paulraphael]

On 2/28/2020 at 8:47 AM, weinoo said:

I prefer the octagonal.

 

Somewhere between octagon and dodecahedron you'll get so wired you'll be up all week. 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

On 1/26/2020 at 4:36 AM, weinoo said:

I would certainly not have any problem experimenting with using less coffee than what seems to be the recent fascination.

 

It's funny, because to me some of the best espresso I've ever had has been while standing at a counter in a little shop in Rome, where your espresso is in front of you in a minute or less (as is your cornetto), and costs a euro or less. As opposed to the fancy one which takes 10 minutes to make, comes out to you fairly tepid, and cost $4.

 

Others would scoff at that, but location, location, location baby!

I would hazard to add that wine is also tremendously situational.    Many years ago, husband and I enjoyed a simple dinner out, ambiance, plates, late prolonged conversation with the sweet chef/owner...and the WINE!     Ambrosia.   So when husband's birthday comes along, i buy him a case.   Same vintage, whole 9 yards.   

 

He tastes it with enthusiasm, recoils and asks me why I had chosen that wine, and BOUGHT SO MUCH!     Tuesday night in our kitchen just didn't add up to our recent enchanted evening