The Bread Topic (2016–)

[paul o' vendange]

"Das Ultimative Sauerteigbrot," recipe from Rene Dasbeck (https://www.brooot.de/weizenbrote/das-ultimative-sauerteigbrot/?fbclid=IwY2xjawN2XQVleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFmZDQ0dXFLZVRZbnlySVZuAR6hdP13QyH-HhP9AdzvLk-AfgyuXpbVn9A_CDxbzA1oBZZXDMvxB4ouTVqCKw_aem_KdbnKjzYidqkmIDMHPC5qQ&brid=1mib5OTjoleHhLhjZdlu9A).  Nice in that it has a relatively small amount of pre-ferment, and a touch of beet syrup.  Very aromatic, as he indicates, a pleasant everyday levain.

 

 

[RWood]

Sourdough starter discard English muffins. And a small loaf of sourdough.

 

 

[paul o' vendange]

12 minutes ago, RWood said:

Sourdough starter discard English muffins. And a small loaf of sourdough.

 

 

Beautiful!

[Smithy]

2 hours ago, paul o' vendange said:

Beautiful!

 

Yes, the pattern on that boule is striking!

[Ann_T]

On 11/4/2025 at 12:49 PM, Smithy said:

 

Yes, the pattern on that boule is striking!

I agree.  That loaf is a beauty.

 

[Ann_T]

I mentioned a few months ago that I was using a new method I found for maintaining a sourdough starter, using just the scrapings in the bottom of the jar.

I've been using this method now consistently since February.

 

The method is from Culinary Explorations.

 

You start with about 22g of your sourdough starter and feed it with 55g of water and 55g of flour.

Once it has more than doubled it is ready to go into your next batch of dough.

You just need to leave a little of the starter in the bottom of the jar and feed the scrapings with the 55g of water and 55g of starter.

After the first time, I never bothered measuring the scrapings. You just need to leave less than a tablespoon in the jar to feed.

 

If you don't plan on baking anytime soon, just put the jar of scrapings in the fridge and pull out and feed with the 55/55 ratio 8 to 10 hours

before you want to make your next batch of dough.

So if you want to make your bread dough in the morning feed it at night and it is ready to go.

Or feed it in the morning and make your dough later in the day.

 

I found that since I am baking every two or three days, I just feed the scapings immediately and after they have more than doubled,

I put the jar in the fridge until I want to bake. This works for me.

 

Last night I made three doughs using three of the mini bigas.

All three doughs went into the fridge for a cold fermentation.

That left me three jars with scrapings to feed. I fed each jar and left them on the counter overnight.

 

I just took pictures of them and they are now going into the fridge for a couple of days.

If you look closely at the lids, you can see how they are expanding so you know that these little starters are active and strong.

 

Made a nice popping sound when I realized the lid.

 

Besides being really easy, what I really like about this method is that there is no waste at all.

 

[paul o' vendange]

33 minutes ago, Ann_T said:

I mentioned a few months ago that I was using a new method I found for maintaining a sourdough starter, using just the scrapings in the bottom of the jar.

I've been using this method now consistently since February.

 

The method is from Culinary Explorations.

 

You start with about 22g of your sourdough starter and feed it with 55g of water and 55g of flour.

Once it has more than doubled it is ready to go into your next batch of dough.

You just need to leave a little of the starter in the bottom of the jar and feed the scrapings with the 55g of water and 55g of starter.

After the first time, I never bothered measuring the scrapings. You just need to leave less than a tablespoon in the jar to feed.

 

If you don't plan on baking anytime soon, just put the jar of scrapings in the fridge and pull out and feed with the 55/55 ratio 8 to 10 hours

before you want to make your next batch of dough.

So if you want to make your bread dough in the morning feed it at night and it is ready to go.

Or feed it in the morning and make your dough later in the day.

 

I found that since I am baking every two or three days, I just feed the scapings immediately and after they have more than doubled,

I put the jar in the fridge until I want to bake. This works for me.

 

Last night I made three doughs using three of the mini bigas.

All three doughs went into the fridge for a cold fermentation.

That left me three jars with scrapings to feed. I fed each jar and left them on the counter overnight.

 

I just took pictures of them and they are now going into the fridge for a couple of days.

If you look closely at the lids, you can see how they are expanding so you know that these little starters are active and strong.

 

Made a nice popping sound when I realized the lid.

 

Besides being really easy, what I really like about this method is that there is no waste at all.

 

Very cool, thanks Ann.  The only thing I'd be curious about is whether the scrapings at the bottom have a different population mix of yeasts v. bacterias, and if over time that would tend to move the population ecology to favor one or the other over time.  Don't know why it would, but it would be interesting to learn more about this.  Very nice to avoid waste, like you say, and your starters look robust and healthy!

[Ann_T]

41 minutes ago, paul o' vendange said:

Very cool, thanks Ann.  The only thing I'd be curious about is whether the scrapings at the bottom have a different population mix of yeasts v. bacterias, and if over time that would tend to move the population ecology to favor one or the other over time.  Don't know why it would, but it would be interesting to learn more about this.  Very nice to avoid waste, like you say, and your starters look robust and healthy!

A sourdough starter should never have yeast added.      When I  started my "mother' back in 2019 it was started  with organic rye and bottled water and when it was ready to maintain, I fed  with organic rye and bottled water. Nothing else.  Pure sourdough.   

Edited 36 minutes ago by Ann_T (log)

[paul o' vendange]

7 minutes ago, Ann_T said:

A sourdough starter should never have yeast added.      When I  started my "mother' back in 2019 it was started  with organic rye and bottled water and when it was ready to maintain, I fed  with organic rye and bottled water. Nothing else.  Pure sourdough.   

No, totally agreed.  I don't mean added yeast, I mean that starter is always a dynamic system, an ecology that develops naturally over time, some blend of wild yeasts and bacterias (which we can manipulate via changes in ambient conditions).  There will always be some drift because it's not static, just wondering if the method would tend to naturally move the overall balance one way or the other.

 

I maintain three basic starters - a liquid rye, which is renewed with "ASG," Anstellgut, cold starter left in the fridge maybe 3-4 days; water at 40C; and Central Milling's "Medium Rye," which is equivalent to the German T 1150 rye at 1.15% ash.  I find that gives a good, steady development when refreshing as whole grain rye can really cause the starter to scream.  Occasionally I will do whole rye, to goose the starter if it's not been refreshed for too long.  I also maintain a Lievito Madre (AP & Water), and a Hefewasser (water, some existing Hefewasser, and Munich liquid malt extract, used in brewing).

 

Point of interest, the late great French baker Gerard Rubaud started a new mother every month or so, for this reason - he watched performance constantly and felt his starter drifted too much for him over a matter of weeks, so he always regularly started with a new starter about monthly.  After learning that I stopped worrying if I had to let go of an old culture and start another.  

 

Quote

Interestingly Gérard renews his levain regularly (every 4 to 5 weeks, sometimes 6 in the summer and every three months in the winter) as he finds it impossible to control the acids otherwise.

 

http://www.farine-mc.com/2009/11/meet-baker-gerard-rubaud.html

Edited 26 minutes ago by paul o' vendange (log)

[Ann_T]

It is sometimes confusing, with the different terms that are used.  Levain, Poolish, Biga, Pate Fermentee are just different preferments.   

So when Gerard renews his Levain, I'm not sure what he means by that.  When I want a preferment for my next batch of sourdough bread, I

start a new preferment, whether a levain, poolish, biga, etc. 

 

I've experimented with all of them over the years.   The one I used more often was a "Biga".  Both a yeast version and a sourdough version.

 

The sourdough version was made using 60 to 80g of sourdough starter and added to 250g of flour and 250g of water.  Once it had more than doubled

it was added to the next batch of dough.   These little scrapings of the jar preferments, I just refer to as mini bigas.  

 

I have still been maintaining my mother, feeding it every couple of weeks.  I think that it has just become a habit that I've been feeding for 6 years and I don't want it to die. 

 

I usually leave a dough in the fridge for a longer cold fermentation from 24 hours to 4 days.   But I have left them as long as 8 and 9 days and the only difference I find

is that the sourdough flavour is a little stronger.   This works for my son who loves a more sour taste.  I like a milder sourdough flavour.