The Bread Topic (2016–)

[Ann_T]

15 minutes ago, Maison Rustique said:

Ann, I leave it on the counter.

Mine resides in the fridge. Once it has been fed and given time to double it goes immediately back into the fridge.

And doesn't get taken out of the fridge until I'm ready to feed it again.   

Since I'm baking bread often enough, the starter is getting fed on a more regular basis.

Usually between one and two times a week and with the discard being used in one or two batches of bread. 

 

But I have many times let the starter go a month to three without feeding and it bounces back with one or two feeds.

What I like about this starter, besides that fact that is a pure starter with just rye and water to start is that there is very little waste.

I only need 50 to 80g of discard to make a batch of dough.  

I've seen some starters that are left out on the counter and get fed daily with lots of discard getting thrown out. 

 

Today's bake.

Started with a Levain.   Left out on the counter last night and baked this morning.  

Boule and 7 mini baguette buns. 

 

 

[Ann_T]

Yesterday morning before leaving for work, I made two levains. One from my rye starter and one from the white.

Small firm balls that came up to just under the 200ml line on the measuring cups.

By the time I got home from work they had risen beyond the top of the cups.

Started two 1000g batches of sourdough last night. One went into the fridge after the last stretch and fold and the other was left out from 8:30 PM until 4:00 AM this morning.

Baked five baguettes and three "Claude" size baguettes.

[Tropicalsenior]

I made stromboli today combining my usual Stromboli dough with Patrick's herb bread. I made the dough Just a little bit stronger and it really held up well and tasted great.

Ready to roll.

Before the final rise.

Straight out of the oven.

 

I'm really happy about the way that the dough has risen all the way through. I let the dough rise about half an hour longer than usual and cooked it about 20 minutes longer than usual at a lower temperature.

But then again the longer rise time might have been because it is awfully cold here. I don't think that it's gotten over 70° to 75° all day.

[Ann_T]

@Tropicalsenior, that is the most perfect shaped roll. 

Our house is usually around 19 to 20C so never hot.    I actually like a slower rise.

 

Well tonight's bake was a pleasant surprise. 

 

I put two 500g doughs in the fridge on Monday. Matt took one of them out Wednesday and we both made pizza.  For breakfast.

Since then I had made  a couple of more doughs and still had one of the Levain doughs in the fridge.

 

I had totally  forgotten about Monday's dough.

 

Took it out this morning before I left for work. 

Matt let me know that it was quite active and was getting close to the top of the container by 12:30 PM.

So I had him  put it in a back room that isn't heated so that it would slow down.  I didn't want it back in the fridge.

 

He brought it back in around 3:00 and by the time I got home around 5:30 it was touching the lid.

 

Divided it in half and shaped one loaf and three smaller rolls.

 

Really wasn't expecting much as the dough was really soft and after the preshape, it kind of spread out.

I went ahead and finished the finally shaping and it seemed to be holding its shape better.  

 

Anyway, after it had proofed I went ahead and baked it.   It was difficult to score as the dough was just really soft. 

 

Just out of the oven. 

And considering this dough had a 140 hour cold fermentation it actually looks pretty good.

 

Not sure what the crumb will be like but I guess I'll find out in the morning. 

EDITED to add picture of crumb.

 

 

 

EDITED to add sliced loaf

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Ann_T (log)

[PatrickT]

17 hours ago, Tropicalsenior said:

I made stromboli today combining my usual Stromboli dough with Patrick's herb bread. I made the dough Just a little bit stronger and it really held up well and tasted great.

Ready to roll.

Before the final rise.

Straight out of the oven.

 

I'm really happy about the way that the dough has risen all the way through. I let the dough rise about half an hour longer than usual and cooked it about 20 minutes longer than usual at a lower temperature.

But then again the longer rise time might have been because it is awfully cold here. I don't think that it's gotten over 70° to 75° all day.

 

That looks positively delicious. What a great way to use that herb dough. And @Ann_T is right - that is just the most perfect roll. Fabulous job!

 

Did the herbs make it taste noticeably different from others you've made in the past?

[PatrickT]

7 hours ago, Ann_T said:

Matt took one of them out Wednesday and we both made pizza.  For breakfast.

 

That's a demonstration of true culinary prowess. 😆 Gorgeous loaves!

[Tropicalsenior]

1 hour ago, PatrickT said:

Did the herbs make it taste noticeably different

It made a big difference in the taste, much better. I left out the cheese because I was afraid that it might weaken the wall and cause it to leak but everything else was the same. I won't make Stromboli any other way now.

[KennethT]

I had a question about hydration and humidity.

 

From what I understand (I have very little experience with this stuff), it is standard practice to weigh the flour to figure the hydration of the dough.  But doesn't the starting hydration of the flour matter?  I'd assume that a certain amount of flour in a humid environment (say tropical - 70-80% humidity) would have less actual flour particles as the same weight of flour in a dry environment (say the Northeast in winter - 20% humidity) since there's slightly more water already in the flour in the humid environment.  So, for example, in the humid environment, 500g flour with 500ml water (50% hydration) would actually have a slightly higher hydration than in the dry environment with the same ratio, right?

[Tropicalsenior]

Well, I am back to the mundane. I used @kayb's recipe for light brioche and made a loaf of bread and dinner rolls to have when my friend Lenora comes up tomorrow. It was okay but I think I will go back to my own light brioche recipe. I don't think it was the fault of the recipe, though. I think it was the fault of the weather and me.

It's just not as light and fluffy as I want.

[Ann_T]

@Tropicalsenior, well they all look good to me.  And I bet they taste as good as well.

 

Moe and I are going away for a couple of days so I had to get this dough baked this morning.

This batch of sourdough was started with a Levain on Thursday.

Took it out of the fridge before bed last night and it was ready to go around 4:30 this morning.

Baked four fatter baguettes for the freezer.

Out of the oven before 7:30.

Will go into the freezer. 

[Ann_T]

6 hours ago, KennethT said:

I had a question about hydration and humidity.

 

From what I understand (I have very little experience with this stuff), it is standard practice to weigh the flour to figure the hydration of the dough.  But doesn't the starting hydration of the flour matter?  I'd assume that a certain amount of flour in a humid environment (say tropical - 70-80% humidity) would have less actual flour particles as the same weight of flour in a dry environment (say the Northeast in winter - 20% humidity) since there's slightly more water already in the flour in the humid environment.  So, for example, in the humid environment, 500g flour with 500ml water (50% hydration) would actually have a slightly higher hydration than in the dry environment with the same ratio, right?

Actually  500g of flour with 500ml of water is 100% hydration.

[PatrickT]

6 hours ago, KennethT said:

But doesn't the starting hydration of the flour matter?

 

Yes - humidity does affect flour and thus hydration behavior. There's a great discussion of this subject here.

[KennethT]

On 11/29/2022 at 1:17 PM, KennethT said:

So it seems as if Google has been reading this thread (or getting creepily good at predicting what I want to look at)... this popped up at the top of my YouTube feed:

 

She is speaking Malaysian, but there are some English translations that pop up for the necessary things.  She just uses regular water - but she uses a LOT more fat than I have and doesn't knead much at all.  She's using maybe 4x as much fat as I am in my dough, and hers stretches out so easily - it looks like she's barely putting any effort in!

For those who have been following my roti prata exercise in frustration, I tried this recipe today (but I wasn't sitting on the floor like she is).  Total fail - I used the exact same hydration as she did but my dough barely even came together.  I wound up having to add quite a bit more water - maybe a few tablespoons worth to get it to even come together at all, even after resting for 30 minutes after mixing.

 

After resting several hours, when stretching the dough, it was like I was trying to stretch a rubber sheet - it snapped back worse than before and I have basically doubled the amount of oil from the last time.  It was so bad I wound up scrapping the whole thing!

 

To add to my frustration, I found this video:

 

This guy uses no oil whatsoever in the dough and doesn't even measure the amount of water he's using!!  And his water temperature is regular room temperature water (granted they're in India so room temp is probably like 80-90F).  Plus, he is barely resting that dough compared to what I was doing.  One thing I can discern is that he is kneading it a LOT less than I do.  He's barely kneading it at all.  Maybe that's what I'll try next....

Edited February 21, 2023 by KennethT (log)

[Tropicalsenior]

10 minutes ago, KennethT said:

Maybe that's what I'll try next....

Have you thought about maybe sitting on the floor?

[curls]

On 2/20/2023 at 7:25 PM, KennethT said:

After resting several hours, when stretching the dough, it was like I was trying to stretch a rubber sheet - it snapped back worse than before and I have basically doubled the amount of oil from the last time.  It was so bad I wound up scrapping the whole thing!

It definitely sounds like you have too much gluten development. So kneading less and letting the dough rest will help. What flour are you using? Something with a lower protein content could also help.

 

Also, thank you for the videos, such skill!

[KennethT]

10 minutes ago, curls said:

It definitely sounds like you have too much gluten development. So kneading less and letting the dough rest will help. What flour are you using? Something with a lower protein content could also help.

 

Also, thank you for the videos, such skill!

All of my roti research says that I'm shooting for a protein content of 10.8% in my flour  It seems like all the prata guys in Singapore use the same brand of flour - which the company markets as "roti prata flour" and they say it's 10.8% protein.  So I'm using a combination of King Arthur all purpose (the bag says 11.7%) and cake flour (supposedly 7%) to get 10.8% total.

 

In addition to kneading less (or barely at all) I'm also going to add some extra water - rather than using a set measurement, I'll try doing it more by eye to get that shaggy dough mass that they all seem to get.

 

I wish I got video (up close) of the guy who made the roti canai for breakfast in the hotel I stayed in in Penang - his dough spread so smoothly and easily - it looked like a joy to handle.

[curls]

@KennethT that sounds like a good approach!

 

If that doesn't get you the result you are looking for, you might want to see what happens if you use White Lily flour; its protein content is reported to be 9%. At least then you'll have a better idea what a soft wheat & low protein flour will produce.

 

Good luck with your experiments and I hope you get the result you are looking for soon.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, KennethT said:

All of my roti research says that I'm shooting for a protein content of 10.8% in my flour  It seems like all the prata guys in Singapore use the same brand of flour - which the company markets as "roti prata flour" and they say it's 10.8% protein.  So I'm using a combination of King Arthur all purpose (the bag says 11.7%) and cake flour (supposedly 7%) to get 10.8% total.

 

In addition to kneading less (or barely at all) I'm also going to add some extra water - rather than using a set measurement, I'll try doing it more by eye to get that shaggy dough mass that they all seem to get.

 

I wish I got video (up close) of the guy who made the roti canai for breakfast in the hotel I stayed in in Penang - his dough spread so smoothly and easily - it looked like a joy to handle.

 

How do Singapore flour companies measure their percent protein?  Do they follow North American standards, European standards, or something else?

 

[KennethT]

2 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

How do Singapore flour companies measure their percent protein?  Do they follow North American standards, European standards, or something else?

 

Huh... I didn't realize there were different standards to measure protein!  How do they differ?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

5 hours ago, KennethT said:

Huh... I didn't realize there were different standards to measure protein!  How do they differ?

 

According to The Taste of Bread, French flour protein is measured as a percentage of dry matter, whereas in the US and Canada flour protein is measured at 14% moisture.

 

[MaryIsobel]

Decided this morning with no forethought, that I want foccacia to go with our "soup from the freezer" dinner tonight. The basis of this is the King Arthur recipe for No Fuss Foccacia. I have bastardized it to death many times to align with how much time I have from start to table. I adjust the amount of yeast and the temperature environment where I let it rise, depending on how much time I have. I have also adopted Siman Nosrat's method of pouring a salt water brine over the dough prior to the second rise. 15 minutes into the second rise and it is getting lovely bubbles.

Edited February 26, 2023 by MaryIsobel (log)

[MaryIsobel]

1 hour ago, MaryIsobel said:

Decided this morning with no forethought, that I want foccacia to go with our "soup from the freezer" dinner tonight. The basis of this is the King Arthur recipe for No Fuss Foccacia. I have bastardized it to death many times to align with how much time I have from start to table. I adjust the amount of yeast and the temperature environment where I let it rise, depending on how much time I have. I have also adopted Siman Nosrat's method of pouring a salt water brine over the dough prior to the second rise. 15 minutes into the second rise and it is getting lovely bubbles.

 

Ready to go into the oven at 425 for 30 minutes. Was going to incorporate olives but concerned about how salty it might be so left them out.

Edited February 26, 2023 by MaryIsobel (log)

[MaryIsobel]

30 minutes at 425. Second pic is a quick flip to show the underside. Cut a square off the corner to taste. Crispy, salty - perfect in my humble opinion, considering the little time involved.

[Tropicalsenior]

Made filled bread again for our Sunday snacking. This time it was Finnish Lihapiirakka, a ground meat filling in a slightly sweet dough. I had some dough left over so I just made a little round loaf.

 

 

Not bad, if I do say so myself.

[Ann_T]

On 2/26/2023 at 4:31 PM, Tropicalsenior said:

Not bad, if I do say so myself.

 Way better than just not bad.  I love this idea.  I need to make something like this and have them in the freezer for

Moe to have for lunch on the days I work.  Plus I could take one for lunch. 

 

I fed both my starters Friday night and made two levains, ( Pictorial Blog Post ) One from the discard of the rye starter and one from the white discard.

 

Two doughs were made on Saturday and put into the fridge.  Took the dough made with the white levain out this morning around 4:00 AM

and left it on the counter to warm up and finish rising.

Matt used 500g to make a pizza and I used the remaining in three loaves. One large and two small.