The Bread Topic (2016–)

[Dave R]

16 minutes ago, Ann_T said:

Dave,I  keep coming back to look at these muffins.  What I wouldn't give for one of those with our early minute cappuccinos.

 

They are surprisingly easy to make. I had to take a leap of faith with the recipe because my experience with enriched doughs kept screaming at me to develop the gluten before adding the butter, but it worked. I have an old ZO that I sometimes use for small batch doughs and I just tossed the ingredients into the bucket and went back to my other doughs. 

 

My wife is more of an internet person than I am and she has been looking at full sized Babka on the ChainBaker site, so I may be working that into the mix next. I think the muffins are more versatile for breakfast than a slice of bread, but I guess I'll find out. I'm not sure I want to use Nutella. I'm planning on mixing almond or some other nut paste (without palm oil) with cocoa powder to see how it tastes.

 

Dave

[JoNorvelleWalker]

 

Overproofed.  I think.

 

Ever since I got out of the habit of baking weekly (or thereabouts) I seem to have lost my touch.  I miss the beautiful open glossy crumb I used to get.  Tastes fine though.

 

I'm sure much of my difficulty is due to the shortcut of mixing in the chamber vacuum.  I may have to go back to making larger batches in the Ankarsrum.  @Chris Hennes do you still sometimes use the chamber vacuum method for your dough?

 

[Smithy]

On 6/17/2022 at 2:05 PM, PatrickT said:

OK @Dave R - here is a ChainBaker recipe you simply must try! Just made his Dutch Crunch (or Dutch Crust, as we called it when I was a lad) this morning and it is positively delicious! I made my rice flour batter for the topping using sesame oil (as he mentions in the video and in the recipe) and I highly recommend it. It really adds an incredible flavor to the loaf. Looks like I could have done a bit better job degassing the dough before shaping it, but I'm still pretty happy with the crumb. The crust is just outrageous - so flavorful and such an interesting texture. This honestly might become a regular bake in our household. 😍 This is also my inaugural pan loaf, so I'm delighted that I didn't mess it up! LOL

 

 

 

Thanks for the reminder about Dutch Crunch bread (the name I knew it by in central California). I experimented with making it -- usually as hamburger buns -- a few years back, then got distracted and forgot about it although we liked it very much. I'll have to put that back into my repertory!

 

Oh, it was pointed out during an earlier discussion (starting about here, when I was rediscovering it) that some cute little girl convinced Sainsbury's to rename it from Tiger Bread to Giraffe Bread, because everyone knows tigers have stripes instead of splotches. 🙂

[Dave R]

5 minutes ago, Smithy said:

 

Thanks for the reminder about Dutch Crunch bread (the name I knew it by in central California). I experimented with making it -- usually as hamburger buns -- a few years back, then got distracted and forgot about it although we liked it very much. I'll have to put that back into my repertory!

 

Oh, it was pointed out during an earlier discussion (starting about here, when I was rediscovering it) that some cute little girl convinced Sainsbury's to rename it from Tiger Bread to Giraffe Bread, because everyone knows tigers have stripes instead of splotches. 🙂

@Smithy thanks for that bit of information. Just another fun fact to file away and nice to know.

 

Dave

[Ann_T]

Since @Dave R,reminded me about using the FP for bread dough, I have been using it often.

 

I make two separate 500g doughs using just 1g of yeast in each at 63% hydration, and then combined them in

the dough container.  I do between two and three stretch and folds and then leave on the counter either overnight if made at night

or all day if made in the morning.

 

I'm finding this method much easier on my neck.

This batch was made on Friday morning before leaving for work

and baked Friday evening. 

All six started individually  in the CSO on Bread Steam setting and then transferred to the conventional oven after 10 minutes.  

 

[Dave R]

@Ann_T beautiful work as usual!

 

Glad the FP is working for you. These days I use every tool available to make life easier, but I still like to get my hands on the dough for a few stretch and folds.

 

Dave

[Ann_T]

@Dave R, I  think that the stretch folds really make a difference.  

 

[Dave R]

@Ann_T I agree. I only mix for about 3 minutes by machine. Just to what some bakers call the "clean-up stage" where all ingredients are fully combined. I do the gluten development by hand.

 

I did a whole photo demo for someone on line a few years ago. I know you don't need to see them but in case someone doesn't know the benefits of the method here are the start and end pictures.

 

Dave

[PatrickT]

4 hours ago, Smithy said:

I experimented with making it -- usually as hamburger buns

 

Fantastic idea @Smithy - those look positively beautiful! Definitely going to give those a whirl next time I make this recipe. Thank you!

 

4 hours ago, Smithy said:

Oh, it was pointed out during an earlier discussion (starting about here, when I was rediscovering it) that some cute little girl convinced Sainsbury's to rename it from Tiger Bread to Giraffe Bread, because everyone knows tigers have stripes instead of splotches. 🙂

 

Smart girl! And probably the perfect name for it, honestly. 😉

[PatrickT]

@Ann_T Agree with @Dave R - gorgeous loaves as always!

 

2 hours ago, Dave R said:

I did a whole photo demo for someone on line a few years ago. I know you don't need to see them but in case someone doesn't know the benefits of the method here are the start and end pictures.

 

I really appreciated seeing these, Dave. I'm using this technique with almost every loaf of bread I make now. More than anything, it's really helped me develop a feel for the way dough changes as it develops. I actually just showed this process to my wife this morning (working on v2.0 of the cranberry walnut bread I posted earlier). She's a ridiculously good baker - but has never tried making bread before. She was really fascinated by it. I may have to brace myself for some spousal competition! 😂

[Dave R]

1 hour ago, PatrickT said:

@Ann_T Agree with @Dave R - gorgeous loaves as always!

 

 

I really appreciated seeing these, Dave. I'm using this technique with almost every loaf of bread I make now. More than anything, it's really helped me develop a feel for the way dough changes as it develops. I actually just showed this process to my wife this morning (working on v2.0 of the cranberry walnut bread I posted earlier). She's a ridiculously good baker - but has never tried making bread before. She was really fascinated by it. I may have to brace myself for some spousal competition! 😂

I agree with you ln that. Getting your hands on the dough is one of the best ways to know what's going right and what's going wrong with your dough. A couple of years ago I was making pizza dough and something just didn't feel right. I looked at my containers and sure enough, I'd forgotten to add the salt.

 

I usually collaborate with my wife on sweet doughs. I don't have a feel for how much sugar of flavoring to add. I usually put in too little

 

Looking forward to your next cranberry walnut loaf!

 

Dave

[PatrickT]

20 minutes ago, Dave R said:

Looking forward to your next cranberry walnut loaf!

Thank you! FoodGeek has a really interesting cranberry walnut sourdough recipe with bourbon soaked craisins. 😍 I wanted to try a yeasted version for my loaf this time around, so I adapted his recipe for that. I also have an amazing sipping rum on hand, so I decided to go with that. The aroma of the proofing dough is just heavenly - can’t wait to see how it turns out! I’ll keep you posted. 👍

[heidih]

47 minutes ago, Dave R said:

I usually collaborate with my wife on sweet doughs. I don't have a feel for how much sugar of flavoring to add. I usually put in too little

 

When I used to do a lot of sweet doughs I learned that the salt balance was often the tipping flavor point. Too little and you get an unbalanced flat taste.

[PatrickT]

2 minutes ago, heidih said:

When I used to do a lot of sweet doughs I learned that the salt balance was often the tipping flavor point. Too little and you get an unbalanced flat taste.

@heidih This is a great insight and something I’ve wondered about as a newbie bread maker. Will definitely keep this in mind for future. Thank you!

[Dave R]

27 minutes ago, heidih said:

When I used to do a lot of sweet doughs I learned that the salt balance was often the tipping flavor point. Too little and you get an unbalanced flat taste.

@heidih that's an important point to remember in just about all kitchen work. Thanks!

 

I have sort of an off topic question for you. When you did your sweet doughs did you use osmotolerant yeast? With the occasional sweet doughs I've made over the years I've just boosted the amount of IDY by about another half with good results. Just wondering if it's worth keeping around in the freezer for occasional use.

 

Dave

[heidih]

1 hour ago, Dave R said:

@heidih that's an important point to remember in just about all kitchen work. Thanks!

 

I have sort of an off topic question for you. When you did your sweet doughs did you use osmotolerant yeast? With the occasional sweet doughs I've made over the years I've just boosted the amount of IDY by about another half with good results. Just wondering if it's worth keeping around in the freezer for occasional use.

 

Dave

Ha! My constant sweet doughs were mostly in  my late teens and early 20s (I'm 64) -NOBODY was discussing osmotolerant yeast  in cookbooks and no internet then. It was when you could still get fresh yeast cakes in the grocery store and I used both that and dry as available. I did spend time with longtime home bakers like by great grandma and grandma whose skills were honed in post WW2 Europe. We complain about supply chain issues now - they would laugh hard at us.. As with much cooking you get a "feel for it". - as emphasized in the posts about learning to feel your dough. My bread board that grandpa made oh so long ago for us ladies. It has a back edge and the front lips over the counter. Approx 2' x 3'

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by heidih (log)

[Margaret Pilgrim]

To be honest, I have to laugh at so many current baking mandate: flours, yeasts, bakeware, ovens, specialized equipment, certainly expensive scientific cookbooks.    My mother made Paris quality batards weekly using AP flour, fresh then later dry yeast, table salt, tap water.   She had no mixer, put it together by  hand and feel.  She baked them on an aluminum cookie sheet.  She hydrated the oven with a squirt bottle.   Her oven suffered a door failure that couldn't be repaired, so she propped it closed with a 2 by 4.    Eat your heart out trying to match her loaves.

[Ann_T]

10 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

To be honest, I have to laugh at so many current baking mandate: flours, yeasts, bakeware, ovens, specialized equipment, certainly expensive scientific cookbooks.    My mother made Paris quality batards weekly using AP flour, fresh then later dry yeast, table salt, tap water.   She had no mixer, put it together by  hand and feel.  She baked them on an aluminum cookie sheet.  She hydrated the oven with a squirt bottle.   Her oven suffered a door failure that couldn't be repaired, so she propped it closed with a 2 by 4.    Eat your heart out trying to match her loaves.

I totally agree with you Margaret.

I tell everyone that is interested and afraid to bake bread that nothing is easier to make than bread.   Once you understand the different steps, it is really difficult to screw up.   Even if it isn't perfect, or pretty, it will still taste great.  All you need is flour, water, salt and yeast. 

 

I remember watching my grandmother make all her breads by hand. But I  have a number of machines, including a 43 year old Hobart KitchenAid that is still running, a 26 year old Electrolux Magic Mill, and a heavy duty KitchenAid Food Processor.  And yet my favourite way to make my bread is by hand using the Forkish , stretch, fold and autolyze method.  I've used that method since 2014 until recently.   Since the car accident I have found that doing bread dough all by  hand has been a little challenging.   I'm doing better now, but using the food processor for a 45 second mix, and then a number of stretch and folds with the autolyze rests has made bread making less painful.    I help a lot of would be bread makers on some facebook food groups and if using a machine is what it takes to get them interested, I tell them to go for it.   And when I look back to around 2002 when I started taking food photos, there is very little difference in the bread I bake now and the bread I baked then when it comes to crust and crumb. 

 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

11 minutes ago, Ann_T said:

I totally agree with you Margaret.

I tell everyone that is interested and afraid to bake bread that nothing is easier to make than bread.   Once you understand the different steps, it is really difficult to screw up.   Even if it isn't perfect, or pretty, it will still taste great.  All you need is flour, water, salt and yeast. 

 

I remember watching my grandmother make all her breads by hand. But I  have a number of machines, including a 43 year old Hobart KitchenAid that is still running, a 26 year old Electrolux Magic Mill, and a heavy duty KitchenAid Food Processor.  And yet my favourite way to make my bread is by hand using the Forkish , stretch, fold and autolyze method.  I've used that method since 2014 until recently.   Since the car accident I have found that doing bread dough all by  hand has been a little challenging.   I'm doing better now, but using the food processor for a 45 second mix, and then a number of stretch and folds with the autolyze rests has made bread making less painful.    I help a lot of would be bread makers on some facebook food groups and if using a machine is what it takes to get them interested, I tell them to go for it.   And when I look back to around 2002 when I started taking food photos, there is very little difference in the bread I bake now and the bread I baked then when it comes to crust and crumb. 

 

Word!   Thank you so much.

[PatrickT]

Well - it's definitely not the most beautiful loaf I've ever baked, but this is definitely closer in texture and flavor to the bread we used to love at a local restaurant that has long since closed.

 

A few thoughts, based on our taste testing (the toast test will come tomorrow morning 😉

• Very soft and chewy - crust is perhaps too soft
• My wife felt there should be more craisins and fewer walnuts (the recipe I used called for 85g of each)
• Craisins were deliciously sweet as a result of the rum soak - but the fancy rum didn't add anything appreciable, so I would just use regular rum next time
• Overall, just the right amount of sweetness, I think
• This dough could easily make two pan loaves - and I think I might try that next time

Would love to hear any other feedback or critiques any of you might have. Thank you!

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by PatrickT (log)

[Dave R]

@heidih that's a beautiful bread board! I've never been lucky enough to have that kind of history. I do, however pre-date you by 10 years. 😁

 

There was no osmotolerant yeast that I knew of in the late '50s when I was first working. A friend gave me some to try in the late '90s when I was adding cinnamon to some dough and not getting a good rise. Then when  Hamelman's "Bread" came out he wrote about tree bark spices having a negative reaction with yeast. It was news to me.  Just lately I've heard of people using osmotolerant yeast in all their doughs, sweet or not. Just wondered if you had an insight.

 

@PatrickT That's a good looking loaf. I wish I had some right now!

 

It looks like your shaping is getting to where you want it to be and the crumb looks great. I don't know enough about the bake to comment on the crust, but with the moisture content you could probably bake a little longer. I do vote for more walnuts over more craisins!

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

[PatrickT]

9 minutes ago, Dave R said:

That's a good looking loaf. I wish I had some right now!

 

Thank you @Dave R! I do feel that my "pre-shape, rest, final shape" process is becoming more consistent, with @Ann_T's baguettes as the likely outlier. 😂

 

I must say - I'm becoming increasingly fond of the "eating your experiments" part of this bread making process!

 

Appreciate your feedback as always, Dave. Cheers!

[ElsieD]

22 hours ago, heidih said:

When I used to do a lot of sweet doughs I learned that the salt balance was often the tipping flavor point. Too little and you get an unbalanced flat taste.

 

Funny you should mention that.  I made Blueberry scones the other day.  The recipe called for salted butter and I only ever use unsalted butter so I made a mental note to add some salt.  When we had our first one, it tasted flat, that is when I realized I had forgotten the salt.

[ElsieD]

Question:  I have never used osmotolerant yeast.  What makes it different from non-osmotolerant yeast?  Is something added to it?

[Dave R]

In addition to my regular pan loaves this morning, I finally got around to Babka.

 

My wife made the filling out of almond butter, cocoa powder and cinnamon. I took care of the rest. We even baked the cut ends for Babka Buttons. Now back to pizza prep for tonight.

 

Dave