The Bread Topic (2016–)

[Ann_T]

@Dave R, turned out great in the Pullman.  I have one but it is narrower and I've only used it once. More like cocktail size loaves.

 

Early morning bake.

 

Biga started yesterday morning before leaving for work.

Dough made last night. 65% hydration.

Left out on the counter until 4:00 AM this morning

and then shaped into six baguettes/batards of different sizes.

 

Lots of shine even thought sliced while still warm.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Ann_T (log)

[Dave R]

@Ann_T beautifully done loaves. 

 

Sounds like we are on similar baking schedules. I'm usually done pre-shaping around 4 AM. Glad I don't have to go to work!

 

Dave

[Ann_T]

Once again I had neglected my starter. Decided to feed and revive it yesterday morning.

Fed it again last night and used some of the discard to make a biga which went into a batch of dough this morning.

Left it out on the counter all day and it was ready to shape when I got home from work.

Preheated two Dutch ovens while the loaves proofed.

 

 

Just out of the oven.

[PatrickT]

Mine - baked yesterday. 

 

 

[Dave R]

I posted earlier that I picked up a USA 9" Pullman pan. I've been working on adjusting my recipe to get the best square profile that I can, and I'm about done with that with 11 oz of bread flour and 6 ounces of whole wheat. Just an ounce addition of bread flour from my starting point (about 65%/35%). I'll post a couple of pictures below.

 

My goal has been to make a partial whole wheat version of the bread Ciril Hitz shows in "Baking Artisan Bread". Sort of a square/round cinnamon swirl combination. I could use some suggestions or help when it comes to filling the bread. Despite decades of baking bread, I'm very limited in my sweets knowledge. The last time I made anything even close to this was cinnamon rolls with a brioche dough, and that was over 20 years ago!

 

The filling is taken from an older King Arthur recipe (I put in the ounces) and is 1/4 cup (50g) granulated sugar 1.75 oz, 1 1/2 teaspoons cinnamon 0.10 oz, and 2 teaspoons ap flour 0.20 oz as a stabilizer. I got the stabilizer idea from KA's Blog post "5 ways to reduce the gap in cinnamon swirl bread". In that post it's suggested that using an egg wash on the flattened dough before adding the cinnamon mix to help the roll stick together and not form gaps when baking. I remember using butter for the brioche rolls but not egg. I'd appreciate any suggestions for getting a nice looking, non separated loaf.

 

I may just be overthinking this, but thought I'd take advantage of the collective knowledge here. Thanks!

 

Dave

[Kim Shook]

I made @Shelby's White Bread Loaves yesterday:

 

You can see that I got part of the bottom a little charred on the loaf on the right.  I did the second rise and the baking in the CSO and while I was very satisfied with the results, I thought the sides were a little pale.  So, I took the loaves out of the pans and put them back in the CSO for a few minutes.  I should have protected the bottoms because I got a few places a bit overdone.  A little scraping and they were fine.  Good crumb and great toast:

 

 

[Dave R]

@Kim Shook, nice robust looking loaves with a great crumb! Thanks for the recipe link.

 

I usually finish my pan loaves out of the pan on the oven rack. In my case about 10 minutes, but that's in a regular home oven.

 

I would have gladly eaten the "well done" edges!

 

Dave

[lindag]

18 hours ago, Kim Shook said:

I made @Shelby's White Bread Loaves yesterday:

 

 

You can see that I got part of the bottom a little charred on the loaf on the right.  I did the second rise and the baking in the CSO and while I was very satisfied with the results, I thought the sides were a little pale.  So, I took the loaves out of the pans and put them back in the CSO for a few minutes.  I should have protected the bottoms because I got a few places a bit overdone.  A little scraping and they were fine.  Good crumb and great toast:

 

 

 

Nice.  I never had any luck with bread baking when I had a CSO, loaves over-browned on top even if I added a foil cover.  Now I either bake in my Zo or in my F. Blumlein steam oven.

[Ann_T]

On 4/23/2022 at 1:49 PM, Dave R said:

@blue_dolphin thanks for that link. I've got it up on my computer now.

 

The food processor really is a good way to make the smaller batches of low hydration doughs. Bagel dough was what killed the last KitchenAid I owned in the late'90s.

 

I'm going to give that recipe you linked a serious read. I've never done a dough using pregelatinizing of the flour. Many years ago I made lots of Choux pastry but that's the extent of my flour cooking. Thanks!

 

Dave

 

Thanks for the reminder that dough can be made in a food processor. 

 

It has been a while since I used the processor to make a batch of dough.  But years ago, around 2006,   before I became aware of exact hydrations and the stretch and fold method, I used the processor to make

very wet doughs.   Starting with a biga and letting the dough rest in between pulsing.   It actually worked well.  Once it was tipped out on to the board, it just needed a few stretch and folds to bring it together. 

 

I had the pictorial stored on Smugmug and did a blog post in 2012.  

https://thibeaultstable.com/2012/10/03/pictorial-making-bread-in-food-processor/

[Dave R]

@Ann_T Thanks for that link. A good illustration of dough made in a food processor. I've had a Breville 16-Cup for several years and it's good for low hydration doughs but the higher hydration smaller batch doughs don't work that well for me. I've got a Zo from the mid 1990s that I use for smaller patch doughs (up to about 20 ounces of flour). I've never baked in it but I like it because cleanup is so easy. For my weekly bread doughs (About 4 lbs of dough) I use an older Bosch Universal that I got used from a cooking school around 2000. It's still going strong!

 

I know the term Biga is used for many different types of starter and was wondering what the hydration of yours is. It looks a lot like my Poolish (what I grew up calling and still call a starter) which is regularly 50/50.

 

Dave

 

 

[Dave R]

@Ann_T sorry, senior moment, I was so busy looking at the pictures I didn't see the Biga ingredients list at the top. 

 

On to other bread. My experiment with a cinnamon loaf using egg wash instead of butter or milk as a binder was close but no cigar. A slight separation in the top corners. I went back to look at Ciril Hitz's picture in "Baking Artisan Bread". and it sort of looked like he had some separation at the corners too. Could be the covered Pullman pan. Maybe just wishful thinking on my part. He also uses quite a bit more filling. Oh well, back to the drawing board!

 

Dave

[Ann_T]

10 hours ago, Dave R said:

I know the term Biga is used for many different types of starter and was wondering what the hydration of yours is. It looks a lot like my Poolish (what I grew up calling and still call a starter) which is regularly 50/50.

@Dave R The biga/preferment I use is 100% hydration.  

[weinoo]

10 hours ago, Ann_T said:

 The biga/preferment I use is 100% hydration.  

I've always though a poolish was very wet (like this) and a biga was drier.

 

Not that it matter what you call it with your breads being so beautiful.  Have you mentioned before what flours you use?

[Ann_T]

53 minutes ago, weinoo said:

I've always though a poolish was very wet (like this) and a biga was drier.

 

Not that it matter what you call it with your breads being so beautiful.  Have you mentioned before what flours you use?

@weinoo, I don't think there is much difference between the two.  One is "French" and one "Italian".   I've used what I call a Biga for almost 30 years based on a recipe I had for Italian bread. 

I watched an interesting video explaining the different preferments.   

 

 

I use a Canadian Flour - Rogers Silver Star.  It is one of their commercial flours. It isn't sold in grocery stores, but our Costco carries it and until recently I was paying $13.00 for a 20 Kilo (44 lbs) bag. 

It has been the same price for years.  Just recently the price increased to $19.00 for 20 Kilos, (44 lbs).   Still a steal at that price.   If I were to run out of this flour before getting to Costco, I would use their regular bread flour which is available in all the grocery stores.   Both have a high protein of 13.4%.  

Edited May 15, 2022 by Ann_T (log)

[Dave R]

@Ann_T That's a very good tutorial on preferments. It's better than I could explain things.

 

Dave

[Ann_T]

@Dave R, I had actually forgot that I had Charles Van Over's The Best Bread Ever cookbook.   

 

I found it on my shelf and I don't think it has ever been cracked open.

I decided last night to pull out my KA processor and make a small batch of his baguette dough.  I did the initial mixing in the processor,

but also did a couple of stretch and folds before bed.  I also decreased the yeast from 2 grams to 1 gram because I was leaving it out on the counter overnight

so I could bake in the morning. And I wanted a slow rise.

 

Decided to make full size baguettes rather than the small baguettes I usually make. Three between 17" and 18" long. 

Unfortunately, the longer baguettes can't be started in the CSO.  I had to sprayed them with water and toss ice cubes into the oven. 

 

Thanks for reminding me that dough can be made in the FP.  I'm going to try a few more of his recipes including the rye.

[Dave R]

@Ann_TYou certainly have you're technique down. Very nice baguettes!

 

I first became aware of Charles Van Over's "The Best Bread Ever" when I read Maggie Glezer. She's actually the author that got me into using a food processor. I got my copy of his book used from ThriftBooks and I don't think it had ever been opened either, so you're not alone!

 

Dave

[Ann_T]

Matt wanted to use one of the baguettes to make a sandwich today so I sliced one to see what the crumb was like.

 

 

 

Sliced while still slightly warm.

[Kim Shook]

On 5/14/2022 at 10:32 AM, lindag said:

Nice.  I never had any luck with bread baking when I had a CSO, loaves over-browned on top even if I added a foil cover.  Now I either bake in my Zo or in my F. Blumlein steam oven.

I had the problem, too, the first couple of times that I tried to make bread in the CSO.  The first time, I really think that I had neglected to put the rack all the way on the bottom slot.  Not sure what the trick was this time - I didn't even have to cover with foil this time.  I might possibly be this recipe?  The other times that I had bad luck, I think I was using the ATK recipe.  

Edited May 16, 2022 by Kim Shook (log)

[Dave R]

In addition to my regular weekly baking, I've been playing around with cinnamon and sugar these days. These cinnamon rolls are made with my standard bun/roll recipe that I posted on page 97, with the addition of 2T of powdered milk and divided into 12 pieces. Baked in a muffin tin. Filling is pretty standard. About 1/4 C (2 oz) of half and half brown and granulated sugar, 1 1/2t (0.10 oz) cinnamon and 2t (0.20 oz) rice flour.

 

I don't like to mix cinnamon into the dough itself because of the negative effect it has on yeast, and I don't like the flavor of the over yeasting it requires. I've tried osmotolerant yeast but it doesn't seem to work any better for me.

 

Just a light honey cinnamon glaze, they would have been better with butter but we're at the end of a shopping cycle. Still pretty tasty hot out of the oven. Had a few left for a picture.

 

 

[ElsieD]

Those look very tasty.  I have a couple of questions:

 

What exactly is the impact of cinnamon on yeast?  Secondly, what does the rice flour do?

[Dave R]

@ElsieD Most spices that are in the "tree bark" family will retard yeast. I'm mostly familiar with cinnamon and nutmeg doing it. I've seen recipes with almost triple the yeast amount when these are actually mixed into the dough. I've seen some chemical explanation of why but when I try to read them my eyes sort of glaze over! I think it's in the realm of oxygen and fermentation. Perhaps someone smarter than I can chime in on that.

 

The rice flour acts as a binder. You could easily substitute AP flour or just leave it out all together. I've seen recipes on King Arthur's site where they use their product Instant ClearJel which is just modified food starch.

 

Dave

 

 

[ElsieD]

1 hour ago, Dave R said:

@ElsieD Most spices that are in the "tree bark" family will retard yeast. I'm mostly familiar with cinnamon and nutmeg doing it. I've seen recipes with almost triple the yeast amount when these are actually mixed into the dough. I've seen some chemical explanation of why but when I try to read them my eyes sort of glaze over! I think it's in the realm of oxygen and fermentation. Perhaps someone smarter than I can chime in on that.

 

The rice flour acts as a binder. You could easily substitute AP flour or just leave it out all together. I've seen recipes on King Arthur's site where they use their product Instant ClearJel which is just modified food starch.

 

Dave

 

 

 

Thank you.  I make a fruit bread using dried cranberries (darn spell-check) and raisins and a couple of times  I decided to add cinnamon to the mix.  I  can't quite explain it but the bread wasn't "quite right".  To heavy, or something.  I no longer add cinnamon.  This is the bread I make:

Edited May 18, 2022 by ElsieD
Fixed a typo (log)

[PatrickT]

17 minutes ago, ElsieD said:

This is the bread I make

 

Lots of fruit in every bite - that's my kind of raisin bread! 😃 Really lovely, @ElsieD.

[Dave R]

@ElsieDThat is just picture perfect bread! I'm with @PatrickT. That's my kind of bread too!

 

Interesting that you may have had an issue with the cinnamon. I've learned and forgotten that lesson a few times in my life. I found a little information that you can expand on if you want to research it for your own information. I looked up cinnamic aldehyde. Just a brief quote "in frozen bread applications yeast activity was impeded by 80%". I know there's lots more information out there.

 

If you want to try the cinnamon again, just remember to add more yeast. I wish I had a carved in stone rate of increase to give you but it can vary with different recipes and probably also with types of cinnamon, and even how old the cinnamon is. You may notice older cinnamon having lost some of its odor and flavor, and I would think that's the cinnamic aldehyde degrading.

 

Dave