Dual-fuel ranges

[rotuts]

Ive  been looking at ranges recently.

 

Im considering a dual-fuel range ;  gas on the top, electric for the oven.

 

Of course, what Id really like is a range with an induction top, not the kind with discrete zones, but a continuous induction surface, sometimes called Vario

 

and a combi-oven

 

doesn't exist.

 

Im not interested in replacing the standard 'hood' which is a microwave built in above the current gas stove that just pulls the warm are out to the kitchen

 

so there are some BTU limits to the gas top so it won't melt the Micro.   I don't mind as I don't need a bazillion BTU gas burners for a Wok.

 

sealed burners appeal to me, they have less BTU and are easier to keep clean.

 

the more professional ranges have these in the 19,000 BTU

 

any idea if this is needs a new vetting hood by code ?

 

Miele has a very interesting full electric range w an induction surface  ( discrete zones ) but a steam injection feature for the oven for baking bread .

 

Im allergic to contractors so its going to have to be a slide-in 30 " model.

 

as If been meaning to get an electrician in here to add a few more 20 amp circuits to the wall outlets, a 240 V  line for the oven is not out of the question.

 

any one have a dual-file range ?

 

any idea on the BTU limit for a vent/micro above the unit ?

 

many thanks

[HungryChris]

I have a Jenn Air 30 " duel-fuel that I have had for about 6 years. I am pretty happy with it. My biggest complaint is the high gloss black top is something that has to be cleaned continuously because it shows every little spatter. My biggest surprise is that the small oven on the top is perfect for just about everything I cook in the oven. It heats up to 550 F in less than 5 minutes, is perfect for pizza (on my steel plate pizza stone). I use the bigger one for baking bread and occasional casseroles

that will not fit in the smaller one. It has a good selection of burners that I have gotten pretty good at selecting for just what I want.

HC

 

[Barrytm]

Have you considered an induction cooktop and a combi wall oven - that might really suit your needs.   I had a dual fuel and have read a fair amount about them.  Most suggest that they are more expensive than they are worth.    Not sure if you are asking if you will need a new vent if you go with a gas burner of a certain btus.  The common reference I see is add up btu's for the burners and divide by 100   http://www.todayshomeowner.com/how-to-calculate-kitchen-range-hood-fan-size/  not sure if that is right.  You would also need to check the manual for your existing microwave and see what it says.  

[hathor]

Wow...love that double oven. Very nice! 

 

Electric ranges absolutely are the most infuriating, useless, frustrating things on the planet. Invented by food stylist for photo shoots, not for cooking. 

If you enjoy the zen of waiting for water to boil...electric is the way to go. If scorching food because the response time is so ...incredibly....slow, then by all means

go electric. They are however easy to clean, until you spill something, then after going at it with a razor blade, a pick ax seems like a good idea...this is the range for you! 

But wait...let me tell you how I really feel.... 

#nochoicebutelectricsoIamdoomed

[rotuts]

dual fuel means   : Gas top, and electric oven

 

@hathor   

 

nobody in their right mind would get an electric top  ( unless induction ) 

 

at least that's my view   ( sorry about the bold above, as I can't seem to change it )

[rotuts]

@Barrytm  

 

""   Have you considered an induction cooktop and a combi wall oven ""

 

you betcha.

 

induction to ( zone free )  $ 4,000

 

combi oven  $ 3 - 4 k   and way to small

 

reconstruction of part of the kitchen  :  never going to happen.    Id rather starve.

 

or just  use my CSB, and maybe get a second one and be done with it

 

meat in one, veg in the other.

[rotuts]

@HungryChris  

 

nice tip about the color of the top of the oven     Ill keep that in mind

 

many thanks

[lindag]

2 hours ago, rotuts said:

.

 

any one have a dual-file range ?

Yes, I have a GE gas top/electric oven range.  Been in use for over 10 years now.  It does a nice job and has enough BTUs for anything I've ever done.

It also has a small second oven on the bottom which I thought would be useful for my bread baking but turned out to be a total waste of space, it is useless as it takes forever to heat up and is to small in height for a bread pan's expansion. 

This was my first ever gas top and I do like how it cooks.  It has the black enamel top with heavy cast iron grates; the enamel does require a bit of attention but I have a tip for those who have this: Buy some Sprayway Stainless Steel cleaner!  I used this on my top and it came out looking brand new!  Amazing. 

I also have the stupid ventless micro but have no other option.

All in all, I'm quite satisfied with the range I have.  I would not consider a gas oven. 

Edited July 4, 2016 by lindag (log)

[rotuts]

Im looking into it, difficult ti find 

 

Ill stop at the optometrist on the way.

[Deryn]

I don't own a dual fuel range but I house-sat for a friend in Ottawa a few years ago while she went to Australia for 6 weeks and she had one. I once worked in a gas plant so though I have considered gas a few times, I just could never (and still can't) get myself to go that direction much as many tout its properties for cooking - I have a healthy respect for it. However, I used that range and aside from the fact I found the top annoying to clean the gas top was fine ... wouldn't rave about it - I too like induction better. The oven which was electric was more familiar but I found both compartments too small and the bottom one was horrible - had to get down right on the floor to see into it or take things out of it. Guess I am too old for that. I think if one needs more than one oven one might be better advised to install double ovens (especially as one gets older).

 

My ideal range would be a slide-in downdraft Jenn-air electric range with a grill on one side and induction on the other (replaceable modules though so it can be reconfigured) or a similar Jenn-air cooktop and separate wall oven(s). Unfortunately as far as I can ascertain, Jenn-air doesn't make an induction module as yet for that kind of setup.

 

Down south I have a Jenn-air electric downdraft range - and love it (except that I would like to replace the burner side with induction .. or even solid burners). Unfortunately I made the mistake of ordering the burner module in stainless but the rest of the top is black - the stainless part is a nightmare to clean, stuff burns right on to it, and the rest. which is black, I find much easier (and it doesn't show the grease as much). I love the grill - use it all the time - and the downdraft (vented outside under the floor) is plenty strong for anything I have ever cooked, even on the grill. Long winters up north make a grill even more useful - and in fact, my first such Jenn-air was one I had in Ottawa 30 years ago ... I fell in love with them then.

 

In Nova Scotia right now I have a separate (legacy) electric glass top cooktop and hate it so much that I haven't used it in forever now (though it isn't broken). No matter what one does on it, though it heats and cooks ok I guess, it must be carefully scrubbed and scrubbed to get the drips and rings off .. too much work for me. I use two single induction burners when I absolutely have to put something on a 'stovetop' to heat. Easy to clean, fast to heat up, very controllable, cheap, store in the cupboard. That in combo with my wall oven does the trick for me (though I would not mind an additional oven - maybe steam, definitely another convection one, for 'special occasions').

[ElsieD]

I had a dual fuel range once but the particular one I had, which I think was a Maytag (or else it was a Jenn-Aire I can't remember which as we had appliances made by  both) never really worked properly.  If it had, I probably would have liked it very much.  So after fighting with it for a number of years we bought an Electrolux range with an induction top.  I loved it.  Unless you really want gas, a range with an induction top is the way to go.  When we sold the house, I bid the range a sad tearful goodbye and really tried hard to use the smooth top electric cooktop that was in the condo we moved into.  I hated it.   That lasted about two months and it was replaced by an induction cooktop.  Happiness.

Edited July 4, 2016 by ElsieD
changed Kitchenaid to Maytag. Kitchenaid was an error. (log)

[rotuts]

I completely agree that I have to move to an induction top

 

I do have a very large collection of very heavy copper cook ware from France from the mid'80's

 

but,  Ive been seduced but the 'vario' 36 " induction tops as they do not have specific areas for pans

 

they are also 2 x more than a similar top with, you know, those circular landing areas for your pans.

[ElsieD]

Rotuts, I have the Consumer Reports Buying Guide for 2016 in case you want me to check something.  Also, my post above has been changed as appliances were either Maytag or Jenn-Aire, not Kitchenaid or Jenn-Aire.  Had a little brain cramp there.

[MelissaH]

I have a 36" (six-burner) GE Monogram dual-fuel range. (My parents have the 30" version with four burners, although theirs is set up for propane rather than natural gas.)

 

I love that the grates make the top more or less one continuous surface, so that it's easy to slide a pot off a hot burner, and that if you're just looking for a landing zone for something hot, it's easy. I also love that the burners are ALL equally able to be on to a high heat to quickly boil a large pot of water OR be so low that I can melt chocolate without burning it. I love that my oven heats evenly, especially with the convection fan on, so I can bake three sheets of cookies at once.

 

In a perfect world, the oven would be just a smidge larger so I could fit a full sheet pan inside. (With the 30" version, that's obviously not going to happen.) We've had a couple of little maintenance issues. In the first, you'd turn off a burner but it wouldn't register as being off so the auto-igniter would keep popping. While we had the issue, either that burner needed to stay on (with a pot of water to help humidify, if nothing actually needed to be cooked) or the circuit breaker for the stove needed to be off. The repair was relatively easy, with a cheap part, and could be handled by our local appliance repairperson. After the second burner with the same problem, we asked the repairperson to please order us the four more so that when the other burners went bad, we wouldn't have to wait for the part to come in. Of course since then, all the burners have been just fine. The other problem we had was with the oven: after a self-clean cycle, it refused to unlock the oven. Turns out that after 8 years or so, the servo that moves the little hook that actually clamps the oven shut had been fried. That repair was harder to figure out and a little more expensive to fix, but could also be taken care of by our wonderful repairperson.

 

After 10 years, I still love the range.

[HungryChris]

I sold my condo almost 30 years ago  and moved out to the country, I was concerned about losing power and bought a gas range. I loved the cook top, but hated the oven. It had uneven heat and things had to be carefully rotated. That's why I bought the range I have now. We do lose power and am on a branch street with only a few homes on it so we are at the bottom of the power company list to have power restored. I also have a well and that is a far bigger issue. Another issue was the fact that I did not own the gas tank and paid way too much for gas as well as a $60 a year "minimum use fee". I recently had a propane fired, stand-by generator installed to eliminate trips to the lake for flushing water during such times. As part of that, I bought my own 150 gal propane tanks and found that the price of propane was half what it was before. As a side note, I also had my gas grill hooked up to it's own line from the new tanks. I plan to upgrade the kitchen in a few years after a few other wish list items are addressed and will take a closer look at range options then. I am partial to the gas flame though, so we'll see. We are having pizza tonight and thought I would throw in a few appropriate pics, speaking of cooking with gas. I am sure I could do this on the gas grill, though.

HC

[sartoric]

This is a de Longhi electric oven with gas cooktop now nine years old. There is no mains gas here, so it's plumbed into two LPG tanks at the side of the house. I would like the wok burner to be hotter. Other than that, it's a great cooktop. The long burner is good for gravies or a grill pan. The trivets make sliding pots around pretty easy. 

The oven has had its problems with temperature control. They seem to be fixed after a $250 visit from a tech a month or so ago. 

 

There is a largely useless range hood above it. Searing lamb equals smoke detector, if we had a noise detector it would go off too. Next time I would get the motor installed outside, and we've always suspected it vents into the roof cavity.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2016 by sartoric
Add details (log)

[DianaB]

Intersting topic Rotuts and all, we considered similar options some five years ago when we gutted the kitchen and completely refitted, we were of course on a budget but decided to focus funds on appliances rather than swish looking cupboards.  Initially we thought of an induction hob and electric oven, in fact we ordered said hob, only to change our minds and return it unopened.  Most of our cookware is cast iron, Le Creuset and similar.  My husband decided that moving these pots around on the hob surface might quickly result in damage.

 

We have no natural gas in the village but after living with the (ancient, admittedly) electric hob here when we moved in there was no way we were going to install a traditional style electric hob.  We went for propane fired gas.  This is a real step up from what we had but I remain convinced (my husband doesn't) that propane burners are less powerful than the mains gas stove (ancient) we had at our previous house or the bottom of the range mains gas hob I had in my French house.  

 

Most at of our appliances are Miele or Liebherr and we have been delighted with each, yet to need to call on the 10 year guarantees these items carry.  My husband is an individual who will research extensively before buying anything of significance, in the end he selected a Neff electric oven for us, installed below the hob these appliances give the idea of one unit despite being separate.  

 

This solution has worked well for us, of course everyone's needs are different and I sense that @rotuts is better experienced as a cook than either of us.  Nevertheless I would recommend looking at Neff products if they are available in your area.  For me the Neff is certainly the best oven I have used.  

 

In France these days I stay with friends, mentioned here before, who have taught me loads about cooking.  They spent their professional lives starting up a series of successful restaurants, selling and starting again.  For their retirement kitchen (retired means continuing to cater for events in their case) they opted for an expensive Godin range.  I can't find an image of their model but it has gas burners and a griddle on top and one large electric oven below.  It looks very nice but despite a price around €7,000 the oven is the worst I have ever used.  Just goes to show I guess that the price isn't necessarily an indicator of quality.  Parts are also expensive.  It was with these friends that I first started experimenting with macaron making.  We attended a course together, back home I was able to replicate good results while Jacques, by far the better cook, failed repeatedly.  On my next visit we went through the method exactly as I had done in England.  Sure enough batch after batch failed.  We found eventually that the oven temperature can't be anything like stabilised, that the oven door doesn't seal properly and that parts of the vast oven cavity get much hotter than others.  For the price I would have anticipated better.  

 

To conclude, I'm sure you will be researching the options carefully @rotuts and wish you well in finding appliances right for you.  I set out to respond with the intention simply of saying  perhaps don't rule out unrelated pieces rather than a device with both hob and oven combined.  

[rotuts]

if I get something, Id very much like to avoid a contractor,  Ill accept an electrician, as I need to add a few more 2o amp lines to the kitchen

 

I currently only have 1  20 am line, and 5 - 6 outlets for that.

 

go figure.

 

 

[gfweb]

Re hood power. In our area code says if >400 cfm in the hood there must be a make-up air vent installed so that the hood doesn't suck heater or fireplace exhaust into the house.  I've seen this happen in a previous house that was tight.

http://www.todayshomeowner.com/how-to-calculate-kitchen-range-hood-fan-size/

Code doesn't seem to care if the house gets smoky so no mandated cfm/btu ratio. Hoods sales guys give rules of thumb like 15K btu needs 100 cfm, and then calculates the cfm based on all burners going full blast at once...an unlikely scenario. Our kitchen designer says this is nonsense and that makes sense to me, 390 cfm is a lot of air.

 

I don't know how to think about induction tops and cfm. On the one hand theres less heat to vent, on the other there's less heat to carry smoke upward and the hood will have to suck harder

Edited July 5, 2016 by gfweb
. (log)

[rotuts]

from what Ive seen ( video's ) and read induction tops do not need vents.

 

if there is an over right older one, the oven would need a vent not the top.

 

at my HightEnd store I looked at 30 " blue stars.  very nice.   the unsealed burners put out 22,000  or so  ( don't quote me )

 

and the rep said used them would melt the built-in hood/microwave.  

 

sealed burners are around 19,000    and much easier to clean I think.

 

I can't imagine needing more than that  ( just me ) in a home setting.

 

just leave the wok on longer to preheat, or get take-out.

[gfweb]

My putative contractor says that his Asian clients really want good hot stoves and good ventilation, implying that resale might be hurt if that were missing. Dunno if that is really true.

[Barrytm]

Rotus,  BS makes a few different ranges.  The Platinum actually has 25,000 btu burners,   The Nova,  aka, the RNB has 22,000 power burners, 15,000 medium, and a simmer burner that is lower.    I bought the RNB,  after many problems with a Viking Dual Fuel,  due to the simplicity of the design, and so far it has worked fine.  As to sealed v. open, some think the sealed are more work to clean, because any spot shows, on the open, any major spills fall into a  roll out tray, and minor spots don't really stand out. When you do go to clean it, the open burner is more work to clean in terms of taking out pieces.