Pâte de Fruits (Fruit Paste/Fruit Jellies) (Part 2)

[Kerry Beal]

Only one way to find out!

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, Kerry Beal said:

Only one way to find out!

Somehow I knew you would say that. But I assumed this was something you must have tried at some point over the years. 

[MelissaH]

2 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Only one way to find out!

The one thing I'd wonder about is whether the acidity of brown sugar would cause any issues.

[Jim D.]

29 minutes ago, MelissaH said:

The one thing I'd wonder about is whether the acidity of brown sugar would cause any issues.

Just looked that up, didn't realize brown sugar was acidic previously.  It seems so sweet. Once my peaches are thoroughly ripe, I'll give it a try with just a few of them.

[MelissaH]

1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

Just looked that up, didn't realize brown sugar was acidic previously.  It seems so sweet. Once my peaches are thoroughly ripe, I'll give it a try with just a few of them.

Yup. It makes a huge difference in cookies, of course, since baking soda needs a source of acid to react with. Brown sugar is one common source of acid in cookie recipes. I don't know how much acidity is enough to mess with gelling, but it's probably easier to try it than to measure it.

[Desiderio]

Anyone has experienced any issues making PDF with Yuzu puree/juice?

The two times I have tried, I wasn't able to create a cuttable PDF, only more like a fruit compote or jam, to fill molds.

I have tried couple of different recipes, they usually call for pear puree to go with it. But then I saw another recipe (Boiron I believe) where the chef uses just Yuzu.

Is Yuzu too acidic to properly gel to a solid PDF? 

[Kerry Beal]

I think like any other citrus it doesn’t actually have enough structure to make a proper PDF. That’s why the pear or apricot is used as a base.

 

 

[Rajala]

Yuzu sounds lika a delicious yet expensive pate de fruit. With that said, I should try it out.

[Jim D.]

On 7/29/2019 at 11:12 AM, Jim D. said:

Just looked that up, didn't realize brown sugar was acidic previously.  It seems so sweet. Once my peaches are thoroughly ripe, I'll give it a try with just a few of them.

 

Just to report about the brown sugar experiment with peaches:  Any acid in brown sugar does not affect the making of a PdF, at least when using Pomona's pectin. The roasted peaches that I turned into a brown sugar PdF gave promising results, and now I have some Combier Pêche de Vigne liqueur to add even more flavor.

[Desiderio]

I should give it another try then, following the pear/yuzu combination. 

 

Thank you

[Pastrypastmidnight]

Has anybody done a cranberry pdf? I can’t  find cranberry on any of the, like, 4 different tables I have. Thanks!

Edited November 12, 2019 by Pastrypastmidnight (log)

[curls]

9 hours ago, Pastrypastmidnight said:

Has anybody done a cranberry pdf? I can find cranberry on any of the, like, 4 different tables I have. Thanks!

Yes, I make a cranberry pdf based on Notter’s pdf recipe and charts.

[Pastrypastmidnight]

On 11/9/2019 at 8:19 PM, curls said:

Yes, I make a cranberry pdf based on Notter’s pdf recipe and charts.

I have his book but I didn’t see cranberry on my chart. I figured something out, though. 

[EsaK]

Been going through this and other pate de fruit threads here. @Jim D. experiments and reports are extremely helpful and much appreciated. 🙏

 

I was wondering, for shelf life's sake, what would happen if you replaced for example 50% (or something along those lines, however much is needed for better shelf life) of the regular sugar with, say, dextrose? I'd think that would help with aW and shelf life, and also make it somewhat less sweet. Any gaps in that logic or something that makes it a bad idea? Obviously there are other sugars that are less sweet than regular sucrose, but I guess that'd be the first choice before going into the E-number territory. 

[Jim D.]

5 hours ago, EsaK said:

I was wondering, for shelf life's sake, what would happen if you replaced for example 50% (or something along those lines, however much is needed for better shelf life) of the regular sugar with, say, dextrose? I'd think that would help with aW and shelf life, and also make it somewhat less sweet. Any gaps in that logic or something that makes it a bad idea? Obviously there are other sugars that are less sweet than regular sucrose, but I guess that'd be the first choice before going into the E-number territory. 

 

I am no expert, but from charts I have seen, dextrose has .75 the sweetness of sucrose, whereas sorbitol has .55. Do you have an objection to using sorbitol (I used to, but don't any more since I saw so many well-known chocolatiers using it)?  Why not reduce the sweetness of the PdF as much as you can while still retaining the Aw improvement contributed by a sugar?  The PdF recipe posted by Pomona's (manufacturer of the pectin I prefer) calls for adding more sucrose (as in the traditional PdF recipes), but I thought of using sorbitol as a way of lowering the sweetness. Obviously (powdered) dextrose would do some of that.  I don't know what would happen if you replaced even more of the sucrose with dextrose or sorbitol.

[EsaK]

16 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

 

I am no expert, but from charts I have seen, dextrose has .75 the sweetness of sucrose, whereas sorbitol has .55. Do you have an objection to using sorbitol (I used to, but don't any more since I saw so many well-known chocolatiers using it)?  Why not reduce the sweetness of the PdF as much as you can while still retaining the Aw improvement contributed by a sugar?  The PdF recipe posted by Pomona's (manufacturer of the pectin I prefer) calls for adding more sucrose (as in the traditional PdF recipes), but I thought of using sorbitol as a way of lowering the sweetness. Obviously (powdered) dextrose would do some of that.  I don't know what would happen if you replaced even more of the sucrose with dextrose or sorbitol.

 

That's my understanding as well, 75% the sweetness of sucrose for dextrose. No absolute objection per se on sorbitol, though dextrose is much much easier to get and seems to be considerably more affordable. I think there may be some issues with sorbitol if added in bigger quantities too, as it's labelled as "laxative" so you may not really want too much of the stuff in a PdF. At least in Finland, if you have over 10% of sugar alcohols (which sorbitol is) in a product, you even need to say on the label that "too much use may result in laxative effects". 

So my thinking was, how about replacing a larger percentage of sucrose with the stuff that is easily available, instead of a smaller percentage with stuff that is not as easily available. 

 

You haven't happened to run any aW tests with powdered dextrose when used in PdFs? 

[Jim D.]

3 minutes ago, EsaK said:

You haven't happened to run any aW tests with powdered dextrose when used in PdFs? 

 

No, I have not. I don't have any dextrose. In the U.S. I found dextrose at $6 for 500g, whereas sorbitol was $12/500g. As 500g for such a light-weight product is a large amount, the $6 difference does not have such an impact. This summer I might get some dextrose and give your idea a try, though at this point I have just about had my fill of PdF experiments! I think that in the recipes I use with added dried fruit (such as apricot, cherry, pear, mango) the dried fruit makes a substantial difference in available water.

[EsaK]

1 minute ago, Jim D. said:

 

No, I have not. I don't have any dextrose. In the U.S. I found dextrose at $6 for 500g, whereas sorbitol was $12/500g. As 500g for such a light-weight product is a large amount, the $6 difference does not have such an impact. This summer I might get some dextrose and give your idea a try, though at this point I have just about had my fill of PdF experiments! I think that in the recipes I use with added dried fruit (such as apricot, cherry, pear, mango) the dried fruit makes a substantial difference in available water.

 

Interesting variations in terms of availability and pricing of such a thing as sugar. Certainly understandable that you've had your fill of PdF experiments! With the sorbitol replacement and added dried fruits, were you happy with the fruit flavor and level of sweetness, or were you hoping for it to be further reduced? 

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, EsaK said:

 

Interesting variations in terms of availability and pricing of such a thing as sugar. Certainly understandable that you've had your fill of PdF experiments! With the sorbitol replacement and added dried fruits, were you happy with the fruit flavor and level of sweetness, or were you hoping for it to be further reduced? 

 

I have been happy with the flavor and level of sweetness. That being said, there are a few other "tricks" I use to emphasize the former and obfuscate the latter.  In the first category, I found some wonderful French fruit "essences" made from the fruit only that are outrageously expensive, but just a few drops "punch up" the flavor. I use the apricot, pear, mango, and apple--I neglected to mention earlier that I also make an apple PdF. In cases where I have found liqueurs/brandies that (to me) have an authentic flavor, I also add some of that; this includes pear, cherry, raspberry, and apricot. In the second category (sweetness), Pomona's calls for lemon juice for fruits that need it, but I always add lemon juice.

[curls]

The shelf life of pdf made with sucrose is very good. @EsaK what sort of shelf life are you looking for on your pdf? Are you enrobing it in chocolate, coating it in sugar, or using it in some other way? I am very happy with the pdf’s I have made based on Notter’s recipes and have not used dextrose or sorbitol. I do add tartaric acid to bring out the fruit flavor & cut the sweetness.

[EsaK]

1 hour ago, curls said:

The shelf life of pdf made with sucrose is very good. @EsaK what sort of shelf life are you looking for on your pdf? Are you enrobing it in chocolate, coating it in sugar, or using it in some other way? I am very happy with the pdf’s I have made based on Notter’s recipes and have not used dextrose or sorbitol. I do add tartaric acid to bring out the fruit flavor & cut the sweetness.

 

I don't have anything specific in mind, thought the readings given by @Jim D. earlier in this thread made me hesitant, when combined with the willingness to try make something more fruity and less sugary tasting. If it's possible to achieve a PdF like candy that tastes much fruitier, uses less sugar and has the same or better shelf life is interesting.

I've got some peach puree, citric acid and dextrose. Just need to track down pectin and will expirement and see how it turns out. Thought about trying with agar but I guess that's going to be a different texture etc. 

[curls]

8 hours ago, EsaK said:

 

I don't have anything specific in mind, thought the readings given by @Jim D. earlier in this thread made me hesitant, when combined with the willingness to try make something more fruity and less sugary tasting. If it's possible to achieve a PdF like candy that tastes much fruitier, uses less sugar and has the same or better shelf life is interesting.

I've got some peach puree, citric acid and dextrose. Just need to track down pectin and will expirement and see how it turns out. Thought about trying with agar but I guess that's going to be a different texture etc. 

 

As Jim and others have noted, peach can be a very subtle flavor. I tried a peach pdf once, it didn’t taste very peachy. I tend to use other fruits for pdf. Now I just eat peaches or if I have a lot of them, I make peach preserves. But definitely experiment, perhaps you will figure this out. It would be great to have a tasty peach pdf!

[EsaK]

7 hours ago, curls said:

 

As Jim and others have noted, peach can be a very subtle flavor. I tried a peach pdf once, it didn’t taste very peachy. I tend to use other fruits for pdf. Now I just eat peaches or if I have a lot of them, I make peach preserves. But definitely experiment, perhaps you will figure this out. It would be great to have a tasty peach pdf!

 

Yep, I'm not expecting much from the peach PdF, but one reason to try to reduce sweetness is to see whether even the more subtle fruits could work better. Unlikely that I'll figure this out! Pectin seems to be very hard to find over here so we'll see when I get to that experiment, but will report back nonetheless! 

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, EsaK said:

 

Yep, I'm not expecting much from the peach PdF, but one reason to try to reduce sweetness is to see whether even the more subtle fruits could work better. Unlikely that I'll figure this out! Pectin seems to be very hard to find over here so we'll see when I get to that experiment, but will report back nonetheless! 

 

Last time I thought I had figured peach out (bought tree-ripe peaches and roasted them, sought out a peach liqueur--which by itself was delicious, purchased a "peach nectar" that had spectacular Amazon reviews, and got some dried peaches), I ended up adding some apricot at the last minute to provide some flavor.  So you will understand that I look forward to your experiments. I am surprised pectin is difficult to find. Aren't jams and jellies made in Finland?  You may have to make your own pectin. That will test your dedication to this endeavor!

[Kerry Beal]

If you can get your hands on some Sosa flavorings - adding a tiny bit of that along with the tartaric and bit of booze at the end might just give a nice peachy flavor.