Tovala Smart Oven

[rotuts]

@fledflew  

 

Im very much looking forward to your report.

 

Im not sure if you have an actual 1/4 sheet pan, but if you do

 

it would be nice to see how it fits in the oven  it might not fit  or fit with no clearance.

 

Id like to hear a commitment to bluetooth.

 

how ever, Id like you to have a fine time and enjoy your self and maybe get a sense of some fine food

 

bar-coded for those that need that

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

I canceled my pledge.  they didn't seem to work very hard joining eG  and

 

it does not seem to fit a 1/4 sheet pan and does not have controls for manual cooking on the oven.

 

had it fit a 1/4 sheet pan   ( 1/2 inch on each side ) I would have put up with the blue tooth

 

I think this will do fine for the Well Funded Tech Geeks with lots of Options pending

 

my CSB suits me fine under the circumstances

 

there are 2 slots now for 199 + shipping.  someone else must have cancelled

[Deryn]

I think that may have been a good decision, rotuts (to cancel, that is). Frankly, I think that company is nuts to not consider eGulleters as potentially a worthy part of their target market but it seems they don't. I wish them well but somehow I get the feeling they are more enthusiastic than smart when it comes to design - and could also perform poorly down the line in the customer service department as well.

 

I am probably in the market myself for a 'countertop' type oven of some sort so I was genuinely interested in this product as well. And, if the CSB was a bit larger I would have been all over it long ago. But there is a possible contender for me now in the Pressure Oven (which, for a long time, I discounted) from Wolfgang Puck. At least the Pressure Oven does seem to fit a 1/4 sheet pan, plus it has a rotisserie. Given that I am still very enamoured of my IP, I am beginning to think of the pressure oven as just a different form of that - one which also allows broiling and roasting - and keeps the 'juices in' as well due to the pressure aspect. Not sure I really 'get' how pressure cooked 'toast' works though. One other concern for me with that appliance is whether it is well constructed (haven't actually touched one myself and I have read a few less than wonderful reviews about that aspect) so I am still hanging back still. Would love an 'in wall' steam combi oven but that is prohibitive for this house in this location - just not a smart move while I am here - and I worry that it may be very difficult to service way out here as well. Anyway, so far there is no perfect product as far as I can see and since none of these is 'essential', for once, I am taking my time to decide on what will work best for me. Tovala has just lost out though for sure.

[fledflew]

So I ended up attending the launch event in SF on Wednesday, but have been swamped with work - hence the delay in my report back. 

I spent about 2 hours speaking with the Tovala crew (as well as some of the other attendees) and they responded very positively to my onslaught of questions.  They were extremely friendly, forthcoming and transparent with information, and I came away with the feeling that they were a good group of people with a solid product.  It was a pretty laid-back event with no official speech, structured itinerary, or needless self-promotion.  It was held in a co-working space where they had several ovens set up (more on that later), were serving cooking and serving food, and had a table of beer and wine that you could help yourself to (which I gladly did - thanks Tovala crew!). 

I actually forgot my 1/4 sheet pan in my rush to leave the house, but was able to pick one up at the restaurant supply store on the way.  The bad news is that a 1/4 sheet pan is just about 1/8" too wide to fit in the oven.  I spoke with them about this and explained that the 1/4 sheet is a standardized size, nearly indestructible, versatile, and can be had for about $3 each which is why I have a dozen of them around.  In order to accommodate one, I think the oven chamber would probably have to be widened about 1/2" to prevent the pan from touching the edges and having the steam condensate run down the sides and into the pan.  There was plenty of room in front of and behind the pan for heat/steam to circulate.  I'm told that the reason the interior cooking area is the size that it is was due to other readily available components.  The only item that I could thing of which would dictate that would be the chrome rack (which I'm sure that they could re-spec very easily at minimal cost).  The good news (potentially) is that I was told that the final design wasn't set in stone and that enlarging the cooking chamber was certainly a possibility if the re-tooling costs weren't prohibitive.  As a former machinist/fabricator, I know that it can be done quite easily, but I'm not very familiar with Chinese production dynamics so fingers crossed on this one.  I did leave the 1/4 sheet pan with them in hopes that they would bring it over to their development lab to try and get it accommodated.  As far as a tray goes though, I reminded them of how once a toaster oven's tray warps, stains, or gets lost, that's the end of the tray which is not easily replaceable and why 1/4 sheet pans are so handy.  They did say that a tray would probably be available separately, so there's that in the event that the interior dimensions do stay the same. 

The barcode probably won't be "hackable" as it pertains to a specific menu item (unless you create food that takes advantage of the same cook routines as one of their prepackaged offerings).  The interesting part of repurposing a barcode to cook your own foods is that you'll be skewing their data since the oven sends back data to them information on what is being cooked, when, how often, etc.  Once the barcode/item number is scanned, the oven goes out and fetches the instruction set from the internet via wifi.  In the event of an internet outage, the oven routine can be programmed directly from a smartphone and beamed over via Bluetooth.  So yes, Bluetooth was mentioned as a connectivity method.  Additionally, If you have a number of things that you cook on a regular basis, you will be able to program the routines into the app and then just hit a saved cook routine and the procedure will be beamed over to the oven.  You can save these routines in a private repository or publish them for others to use.  If you develop a very popular recipe that gets published and Tovala produces it as a pre-packaged offering, you will receive royalties from that recipe. 

They served two items at the event - mac and cheese and chicken breast stuffed with mushrooms, cheese (asiago, I think??), and spinach.  The mac and cheese was excellent.  Adequate portion size, good taste and texture, and well prepared.  It did have a crumb topping on it, which highlighted the browning abilities of the oven.  The cook times were spot on.  The chicken tasted great.  The chicken was seared before packaging so that it would have some color beforehand, but was raw otherwise.  I was told that some prep (such as pre-searing) would take place with the packaged meal offerings.  I'm guessing that the mushrooms that were part of the filling were also cooked down before assembly and packaging, but I didn't ask.  The chicken was very tasty.  Significantly better than something you'd get from a fast casual restaurant.  I felt that the portion was a little small, but will admit that I'm a big eater.  Not sure if the portion size is dictated by food cost, tray size, nutrition concerns, or something else.  Combining the smallish (in my opinion) chicken entree with a full portion side of the mac and cheese and a veggie, it ends up being a sensible meal. 

As far as the oven construction goes, fit and finish are very good.  The build quality appears to be top notch.  There is only one complete working oven at this time, with approx. 20-30 more on the way for testing very soon.  The unit looks sleek and the controls are pretty well thought out.  The controls are all along the top of the door together with a display.  Currently, it's a blue LCD display that only shows the temperature - but they did mention that they might try to incorporate an OLED unit that displays more information by the time they go into production.  Along with that display, there's an LED indicating wifi connectivity.  The buttons on the left with one and two dots are programmable by the user, so if there is something you make on a regular basis you can program that and just hit one of the buttons instead of having to pulling out the smartphone.  I should add that the printed buttons for the production model should be fine.  The pictured example of the control panel is a prototype that has had plenty of abuse and (presumably) will use a more durable ink.  Behind the right side of the door is where the laser barcode scanner is situated as well as the water reservoir.  You open the door by pulling the handle and the water reservoir slides out and the slot for the barcode scanner is visible to the right.  The door has a latch that clicks when you open and close it, but it doesn't lock.  There was a mention of a locking latch possible in later versions, although I don't see the need for it.  Along the top of the oven door on the front is a row of blue LEDs which light up left to right as the cooking routine is executed (a progress bar).  The drip tray is located along the front underneath the door and spans the width of the oven.  It goes back about 4 inches or so and is about 1 inch deep - I don't foresee any capacity concerns there.  The steam vent is on the back left corner and up a little bit higher than the oven itself.  Not sure if the height of the steam vent is taken into account for the exterior dimensions (although common sense says that it should be). 

Also present at the event were 3 Cuisinart steam ovens that they hacked (since they only had one completed Tovala to prepare food in).  I'm guessing much of the recipe research as well as controller and programming development is taking place on those re-wired machines solely as a steam oven platform. 

Regarding the longevity of the company in regards to income and profitability, I was told that they make enough money off the margin of the oven itself that they are not dependent on the meal program to make a profit.  The meal offering will be a separate income stream that has margins in line with Blue Apron, etc. 

I'm still a backer, but my only reservation at this time is where I plan to locate it.  I have a cubby in my kitchen intended for a microwave (which I don't own) where I was planning on putting it.  It will fit perfectly in that area and would look great.  The problem is not with the oven so much as it is with the cubby itself.  The shelf of the cubby is 55 inches high and I wouldn't be able to see the display panel on the top of the door.  I could still use the controls when the door is open, but they would become inaccessible once the oven door was closed (unless I used a step ladder).  Not a deal breaker for me, but not ideal either.  I've used the Cuisinart seam oven extensively (I had use of one for several months before giving it back to the rightful owner) and like the abilities of steam ovens quite a bit.  If I already owned another brand combi oven and was happy with it, I wouldn't feel the need to replace it with a Tovala (since I don't plan on utilizing the meal program).  Since I don't currently own a steam oven, have a spot in my kitchen for it, and the $230 price can't be beat, I'm sticking with it.  Target demographic on this one is tough to nail since I only met a handful of backers at the event and I don't know the background of the other backers throughout the country.  From what I could tell, it seems to be techies who like food, but are not cooks - nor they have the desire to understand their ingredients and make things from scratch.  A couple attendees I spoke with were all about just buying the next toy.  They told me that they backed a bunch of other food/technology devices and this was just the next thing to them - whether they understand it or not (I spoke with a couple of people who did not know what a steam oven was, what it could do, how it differed from a standard oven, or the advantages of one). 

I hope that this post was insightful.  I'm sure there is more that I'm sure I'm forgetting, but I think this post is long enough as is! 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2016 by fledflew (log)

[rotuts]

Id really take a closer look at the Puck oven before you buy. " pressure " is nominal, being generous.  its just a sealed oven.  no steam.

 

It does not seem to be 'well made' but I have not seen it in the flesh.  Its not in any stores  as far as I can tell.

 

its a shame the CSB does not drop from time to time to 200 - 220 range.  don't worry about the size,  it delivers a very different type of cooking

 

and is the only one out there ( for some time ) to do this.  Its a 'buy' if you just use it for toast, esp if you bake your own or get really good fresh bread with a good

 

crumb.

 

of course, I covet  PedroG's ElectroLux,  Id smuggle one in on two heart beats and figure out how to set it up on its one "rack'

 

but the CSB has more than delivered the goods to me for some time now.

Edited April 1, 2016 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

@fledflew  

 

wonderful report   many thanks !  had it just had 1 " more total side to side !  so the 1/4 sheet pan would fit nicely.

 

 

[rotuts]

PS  @fledflew  

 

I tihiink you said you've used a CSB

 

if it was in that cubby hole

 

steam coming out the back and from the opening of the door might ruin you wooden cabinets.

 

I pull my CSB out from under anything which was its initial home, but its now moved to a counter top that has nothing above it.

 

thanks again for your report.

[ElsieD]

48 minutes ago, Deryn said:

I think that may have been a good decision, rotuts (to cancel, that is). Frankly, I think that company is nuts to not consider eGulleters as potentially a worthy part of their target market but it seems they don't. I wish them well but somehow I get the feeling they are more enthusiastic than smart when it comes to design - and could also perform poorly down the line in the customer service department as well.

 

I am probably in the market myself for a 'countertop' type oven of some sort so I was genuinely interested in this product as well. And, if the CSB was a bit larger I would have been all over it long ago. But there is a possible contender for me now in the Pressure Oven (which, for a long time, I discounted) from Wolfgang Puck. At least the Pressure Oven does seem to fit a 1/4 sheet pan, plus it has a rotisserie. Given that I am still very enamoured of my IP, I am beginning to think of the pressure oven as just a different form of that - one which also allows broiling and roasting - and keeps the 'juices in' as well due to the pressure aspect. Not sure I really 'get' how pressure cooked 'toast' works though. One other concern for me with that appliance is whether it is well constructed (haven't actually touched one myself and I have read a few less than wonderful reviews about that aspect) so I am still hanging back still. Would love an 'in wall' steam combi oven but that is prohibitive for this house in this location - just not a smart move while I am here - and I worry that it may be very difficult to service way out here as well. Anyway, so far there is no perfect product as far as I can see and since none of these is 'essential', for once, I am taking my time to decide on what will work best for me. Tovala has just lost out though for sure.

I can't remember where I read this, but I read that the 'pressure' part of the Puck oven was so low as to be almost not there.  Wherever it was that I read this review, people also mentioned that Mr.  Puck should have been ashamed of himself for putting his name on the thing.

[rotuts]

indeed.  Late Night TV informercial

 

the pressure is  ;  you local atmospheric pressure +  0.00000000000001.  pick your own units for the add on.

[Deryn]

rotuts - I agree about the 'construction' concerns with the Puck oven and yes, I know there is no 'steam' however there is no 'steam' per se in the IP either and it can do pretty amazing things. At any rate, I am not rushing to buy his 'pressure oven' either but it has been back on my mind lately. It is basically an IP in a different form and with slightly different 'accessories' (as well as having heating elements exposed) as far as I can tell. (edited since I didn't see ElsieD and rotuts additional posts - you may be right - still trying to research that - I admit the 'bumpf' including the demos I have seen on TV are NOT specific and may indeed be very misleading!)

 

fledflew - Thank you so much for that comprehensive report. Apart from the size issue, the remote aspect for me is probably another deal killer. If it did both manual and Bluetooth/phone app equally well, I would be still interested (especially if the size was a bit larger) but the anticipated Tovala customer base I guess definitely won't include someone like me who likes to just push a button or two on the machine (a la my microwave) and doesn't own a smartphone at all. And since I don't eat the same thing all the time or even if I did it might not be in the same amounts at one time, etc., preprogramming sounds a bit more work than I would want to go to these days - unless I could do a few generic programs like 350 degrees for 15 or 30 minutes and just keep hitting a button to make that for 1 hour or 2, etc. There is something about that almost entirely remote concept (especially when it includes a line of pre-packaged foods) that just sounds a bit too 'back to the future' or Jetsons to me. But, I am sure they will have a large techie audience and I hope they do well with that market. Someone else will come along who will take their concept maybe, fix the issues many of us see and I will be watching for that to happen - and hope it is soon.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Deryn (log)

[rotuts]

actually, in the IP all of the pressure is steam.  its a completely saturated system when you use any 'pressure' setting, low or high. 100% humidity.

 

with the top closed.    that's the 'fizz' you release with the little back knob.

[Deryn]

rotuts - there is a similar valve on the Puck oven and supposedly you need to release the steam from that one too before opening.

[Shelby]

@fledflew  Thank you for the write-up!  I can't wait to hear more from you and others when you receive it.

 

I'm with @Deryn....it seems Jetson-ish, to steal her words.  Especially the part where it sends back reports on what you eat and when.  

 

 

edited to be more clear

Edited April 1, 2016 by Shelby (log)

[Deryn]

I agree, Shelby - forgot to mention that that also is a concern for me. I feel 'watched' enough already in today's world but now the world may know exactly what I am eating every day (and when)?

[blue_dolphin]

Great report, @fledflew!  Thanks for taking the time to pull all of that together.  

 

Too bad about the 1/4 sheet pan - so close and yet so far!  I'm not a backer as I already have the Cuisi steam oven and it doesn't sound like this offers any significant advantage.  

If I was backing, I would hope that they would add a countdown timer display (or allow the user to switch between time and temp) as I find that part of the Cuisi display very helpful.  

 

As @Deryn & @Shelby noted,  this part does sound a little creepy:

1 hour ago, fledflew said:

the oven sends back data to them information on what is being cooked, when, how often, etc.

But, for heavens sake,  I post photos of my meals here and I suspect part of the target audience would like the oven to auto-Tweet all that info to their followers !

 

@rotuts is correct about the potential damage to your wood cabinets from steam release in that cubby.  

[rotuts]

I agree with ElsieD

 

the pressure in the Puck is too low to be in any way significant  its an oven that just sealed tighter than a conventional oven, which either electric or gas vents to the

 

kitchen.

[Smithy]

49 minutes ago, rotuts said:

I agree with ElsieD

 

the pressure in the Puck is too low to be in any way significant  its an oven that just sealed tighter than a conventional oven, which either electric or gas vents to the

 

kitchen.

I too am skeptical of the Puck oven.  For more information. please see here: Wolfgang Puck's Pressure Oven.

[fledflew]

@rotuts

 

Thank you for the reminder about steam and the cabinets.  When I initially signed up to be a backer, I told myself that I'd need to investigate how the unit deals with the exhausted steam, but it slipped my mind.  The unit that was being demo'd wasn't spewing a whole lot of moisture so it didn't occur to me at that time either.  When I was testing out the Cuisinart version a couple years ago, I was living in a different house and the unit sat on a counter without much above it.  I did notice that the Cuisnart did seem to create a lot more steam exhaust (although that's just an anecdotal observation).  The Cuisinart seemed to let out a lot of steam from all over, whereas the Tovala vents it only out the black exhaust flue on the back and the oven door is very well sealed.  I am now debating what to do about the steam venting.  Behind that cubby is my garage.  Cutting a hole through that wall (or through the wall in the cabinet above the cubby), attaching a duct to the black rectangle that exhausts the steam, and running it into the garage is probably my best (and really only) option.  I just need to make sure that water doesn't condense and collect in that duct at a bend which would lead to mildew growth or potential odors.  I'll mull over that for a day.  Cancelling my pledge is still an option at this point, too. 

 

From a technology standpoint, cooking with the unit is just like any other steam oven and there is no profound change in process or method once you take the pre-packaged meal offerings out of the equation.  I suspect that it will perform equally well to the Cuisinart.  The only real difference is the manual controls and iphone interface needed to program routines - which my girlfriend has informed me that she is not enthusiastic about.  Truth be told, neither am I but it's not a deal breaker yet. 

[rotuts]

bumping thread up :

 

did anyone back this and is now a backer ?   I backed early but bowed out as the unit size was not much greater if at all to the

 

CSO.

 

however , w news that Anova is being bought by E-Lux , my hope for a larger Combi has been rekindled.

 

https://tovala.com/the-smart-oven/

 

tovala site now

 

Tovala has updates 

 

but you have to be a backer to see them and I can't copy that link as it goes to their video

 

you have to go to the kitstarter page

 

https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/08/meet-tovala-a-smart-oven-that-aims-to-perfectly-cook-ready-made-meals-in-under-30-minutes/

 

then click on the kitstarter link then the updates tab

 

Id like to hear more about what they are doing.

 

 

 

 

""  

[fledflew]

@rotuts-

I was also a backer but pulled out right before the campaign closed so I don't have access to the updates either.  I did get the business card of someone that was working on the project back in March when I attended a launch event and there is a small chance that I might still have it around.  She told me that the project team (when I met her almost a year ago) were all living together in a house that also served as their office.  Coincidentally, it's only about 3 miles from where I live.  If I can find that card, I'll see if I can get some info for you.  If not, then we may have to wait until it sells to the public and settle for the amazon reviews...

 

On another note, my parents picked up a CSO from Costco for $169 last week.  They don't know much about steam ovens, but told me that they were convinced by the demo that they saw.  The last time they saw an appliance demo at Costco, they left with a fully loaded vitamix.  That was 4-5 years ago and they have yet to take it out of the box!

[rotuts]

@fledflew 

 

thanks for trying to look into this

 

and congrats to your parents.  that's a fine price.

 

make sure they follow the thread here on the CSB(O)  as it will help them out a lot !

[Texasian]

Just got my shipping notification for this. Honestly I had forgotten that I'd backed it.

 

I'll post some impressions once I've played around with it if anybody is interested.

[rotuts]

thank you.

 

Im very interested in combi-ovens and look forward to your analysis.

 

thanks again.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

The Wall Street Journal just published a rather favorable review of the Tovala oven and their meal kits*:

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/taste-test-the-oven-that-makes-dinner-without-you-1499876217

 

 

I own a CSO, of course, or I would be all over the Tovala.  The question remains...does it fit a quarter sheet pan??  Still, it is amazing what a little steam can do.  I wish them success.

 

 

*or maybe "meals" since most everything arrives done for you but the cooking.

 

[rotuts]

@JoNorvelleWalker 

 

thank you for the update on the Tovela

 

i don't think it will fit a 1/4 sheet pam.

 

here are T's dimensions , from their site :

 

 

here are the CSO dimensions    foot luck understanding them :

 

 

my 1/4 sheet pan , from this series :

 

https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store/product/calphalon-reg-nonstick-2-piece-bakeware-set/1040346694?Keyword=calphalon+sheet+pans

 

you used to get three pans for $ 19  , i.e.  $ 17 w coupon

 

measures 13 x 9 3/4

 

measuring the rack in the CSO  which touches the sides :

 

its 12 " wide.    you would have to take into account the runners the rack sits on 

 

( indentations in the oven )

 

so the CSB is less than 12 "

 

my take , and only mine ,

 

is that the Tovela  is very close to the CSO

 

but w a bar code reader for their dinners.

 

I signed up a long time ago on kitstarter

 

then emaied them as asked about the 1/4 sheet pan

 

and I think they said it would;d not fit.

 

from what I can make of their dimensions it won't.

 

i do hope they do well w their business plan

 

this might have a better chance in an Urban setting where people don't make time to cook than

 

a Blue Apron type service

 

BTW

 

APRN :  $ 7.64      underwater by $ 2.36

 

granted that only might interest me.

 

Hopefully when the Anova  gang get back from Tahiti  

 

and back to work

 

their oven will fit a 1/4 sheet pan

 

no chance , of course for Rational to find the light

 

and make a consumer  sized steam oven  running on 240 V  two phase power :

 

 

 

 

credit to Rational for the pics .