Freeze Dryers and Freeze Dried Food (Part 1)

[Kerry Beal]

Indeed - I am starting to get a pile of bottles and mylar packages that need spots.

 

The red peppers are earmarked for succotash bark - peppers, corn and either sweet onion or perhaps little lima beans in milk chocolate.

[Mr. Mike]

My experience...All veggies I have dried and used are just like before drying...just wetter all the flavor etc..

 

I reality... I like the veggies dried better as the flavors get more intense... cocconut ..get cocconuttier,

sweet veggies get sweeter.. sliced okra, mushrooms, corn and green beans are really good.

 

I plan to mix them all... spritz/spray with seseme oil and then shake on powdered Ranch dressing, french onion and a few other "dip flavors" as a new snack item.

 

Other seasonngs.. TBD... like a chip seasonings... what ever flavor you can imagine...or make up.

 

Any other ideas along this line as inputs.?

 

Let me know.

 

Mr. Mike

[Beth Wilson]

Kerry,  I think I would try a bit of onion in milk chocolate as a sample before making a pan of bark.  Onion would intensify in flavour wouldn't it? 

 

Have I said how much I am enjoying this thread!!! Succotash Bark.....would not have even thought it was possible before this thread!

[Mr. Mike]

Please tell me you are kidding about this....

 

"The red peppers are earmarked for succotash bark - peppers, corn and either sweet onion or perhaps little lima beans in milk chocolate."

 

If not, ...  Please spalin' yo-self on this one.... I've heard of a lotta things.. .but this one....???

 

I'm at a loss.... no flame intended.....but I jes gotta know if this is a joke... 

 

I take it back....googling  "succotash bark"  takes me back to this site on a different thread... that you posted on 08...so I guess you're not kidding....

 

OTOH.....  I just can't imagine that flavor profile in my head let alone in my mouth.

 

Your momma know you're doin' that to succotash.?? LOL.

 

M

[Kerry Beal]

Please tell me you are kidding about this....

 

"The red peppers are earmarked for succotash bark - peppers, corn and either sweet onion or perhaps little lima beans in milk chocolate."

 

If not, ...  Please spalin' yo-self on this one.... I've heard of a lotta things.. .but this one....???

 

I'm at a loss.... no flame intended.....but I jes gotta know if this is a joke... 

 

I take it back....googling  "succotash bark"  takes me back to this site on a different thread... that you posted on 08...so I guess you're not kidding....

 

OTOH.....  I just can't imagine that flavor profile in my head let alone in my mouth.

 

Your momma know you're doin' that to succotash.?? LOL.

 

M

It's twue, it's twue...   you yourself mention how sweet the veg get!

[dbinokc]

Regarding sweet cherries. I did a similar experiment with a bag of fresh sweet cherries I had pitted.

 

I had a similar result as Mike with the Maricano cherries. They do not quite get cruchy, but instead becimes

almost candy like. Maybe like a hard taffy in consistency.

 

I kept them in a mason jar over several weeks and ate them and watched them for spoilage. They seemed

to hold up just fine over the short term. Not sure how they would hold up over a year, but at least a month seemed

to be okay.

[rotuts]

""  I'm thinking that the rehydration of the chuck eye I might do in a vacuum box that you use to speed marinate things.""

 

like to hear and see how this works out.

[Beth Wilson]

What if you took these dehydrated cherries, reconstituted them in a nice brandy?  Dipped in chocolate :-)  

 

Someones gotta try this and let me know how delicious they are....mmmmm

[Tim P.]

I am new to the forum and have a few questions. I have a HarvestRight freeze dryer and have been using it for about 2 months. The first question is when the freeze dryer has completed its process the ice seems to really collect between the 12 and 3 o'clock position (when viewed from the door.). I rarely have had a cycle where the FD completes the cycle without me have to defrost and start over of which it then completes the cycle on its own. Because the ice seems to mostly collect at the 2 o'clock position it doesn't take long before the ice contacts the top of the rack which causes it to melt during the drying process and then the perpetual cycle begins. If they made the chamber somewhat larger I feel would have that problem as there would more room for the ice to build before contacting the rack. Does anyone have any ideas that my help distribute the ice around the chamber? The second question is at what Vacuum reading can I consider the process complete? Ie. when the drying cycle reaches 100 mTorr can I consider the process complete and shut the machine down and store my food instead of waiting for the time to count down? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

[Mr. Mike]

Can't "re-distribute" the ice.. the ONLY way to prevent that is to do less quanitity of food.. or dry it out more while cooking before drying.

 

My experience is about 8 lbs of most anything and about 5 lbs of fruit are the limits of the machine.

 

For instance... I did 4 trays of spaghetti last weekend and after about 36 hours the vac reading was around 550 mT.. I KNEW it was dried, but there prolly ice built up into the tray... opened  up the door and there was a LOT of ice .  The product was dry, the machine was what I call having a "false positive" reading. i.e. need more dry time.

 

Experience will help you with how the machine operates with different foods.

 

if you go back and read all the posts.... you'll prolly find that most of your questions will be answered.  I've posted a lot of tips from my experiences to help "new owners" and making their learning curve be much faster.  Take notes... really.. you won't remember them all.

 

I've done about every mistake I can think of... and some are real "bone headed" moves... some have suprised H. Right and they still are scratching their heads on the last one... and I still am here... wiser none the less.

 

Ask, we are here for you!.

 

Welcome to the "Dry" side...of life.

 

Mr. Mike.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Mr. Mike (log)

[Tim P.]

Can't "re-distribute" the ice.. the ONLY way to prevent that is to do less quanitity of food.. or dry it out more while cooking before drying.

 

My experience is about 8 lbs of most anything and about 5 lbs of fruit are the limits of the machine.

 

For instance... I did 4 trays of spaghetti last weekend and after about 36 hours the vac reading was around 550 mT.. I KNEW it was dried, but there prolly ice built up into the tray... opened  up the door and there was a LOT of ice .  The product was dry, the machine was what I call having a "false positive" reading. i.e. need more dry time.

 

Experience will help you with how the machine operates with different foods.

 

if you go back and read all the posts.... you'll prolly find that most of your questions will be answered.  I've posted a lot of tips from my experiences to help "new owners" and making their learning curve be much faster.  Take notes... really.. you won't remember them all.

 

I've done about every mistake I can think of... and some are real "bone headed" moves... some have suprised H. Right and they still are scratching their heads on the last one... and I still am here... wiser none the less.

 

Ask, we are here for you!.

 

Welcome to the "Dry" side...of life.

 

Mr. Mike.

Mr. Mike,

Here's what I do when I hit the 36 hour mark. I shut the machine down and place the trays in the freezer. I defrost the unit using the defrost mode and a small space heater blowing inside the chamber. Usually defrosted in about 20 min. Turn the machine back on and let it cool down for 40 min to an hour. Place the trays back in and adjust the cooling time to about 4 hours. I then adjust the drying time to about 4 hours. I have noticed that after an hour or two under a vacuum the screen shows somewhere in the 200 mt. If I let it go it will eventually get down into the low 100 mt. I figured it's pretty dry then since the vacuum is so low while it's drying. That was my question in the previous post. When I see a very low mt. is it safe to assume that the food is dry and is just counting down the drying time that's set when the machine starts up? I have figured out that the FD is programmed to respond to various mTorr targets.

I'm trying something different tonight. I have four trays of chili that I put in the trays last night and were in a freezer for 24 hours while the FD was in use. I'm going to set the cooling for 4 hours and when 20 hours is up I'm going to defrost and start the process again with 4 and 4. I know I'm pushing the machine with 4 trays of chili. A lot of water in the chili. I'll let you know how that works. I can't post again until the 3rd because of the restriction on a newbie but will let you know as soon as I can.

You stated that after 36 hours you know the food is dry and that the perpetual cycle has begun. Do you stop at that point and store your food? I'm doing this for long term storage and want to make sure that all the food is dry so it will store long term safely.

Believe it or not but I have read all the post on this topic.

[Mr. Mike]

If it's taking more than 36 hours and has a LOT of ice in it   You are over loading the machine with too much product. 

 

It's a "universal law"..the machine will extract the water content... if you have too much... it'll freeze into the trays and you'll have to "Defrost and redo"... THAT is too much work and not an efficient use of your/the machines time.. in my opinion.

 

I've done it.. and it just is not worth my time to defrost to get that "little bit more" out of it...

 

My solution was to do smaller batches and turn it faster in a 24 hour time frame vs. 36 hrs.  Turning it faster = smaller batches.  OR the other solution is to buy more machines....I have 3 total now.....keeping up is a problem. 20-25 lbs every 24 hours...I.e. ( 8 lbs/machine) ... You have to plan ahead to have enough product ready.  I have two running now. 

 

I'm doing 20 lbs of "Dirty Rice".. have 15 lbs of pork tenderloin and 40 lbs of chicken thigh meat in que...while I still tend to my business ..self employed.  I cook a lot on the weekends and then freeze until needed...popi it in and hit th start button.  Easy peasy.

 

"Do less and get more"..thats how "I" roll.  Remember less ice means a faster turn time as well.

 

Something to think about.

 

Mr. Mike

Edited October 2, 2014 by Mr. Mike (log)

[dbinokc]

Based on what I have seen so far with my machine, if it has not dropped below 500mT, then something has still not fully dried out.

 

When I was doing strawberries last weekend (about 4 lbs), the machine said it was done but the reading had not quite gotten below 500mT. I have an infrared camera, so I imaged the trays. Sure enough, there were a few cold berries in mix. So back into the machine for a few more hours. When that finished, the pressure was in the low 400mT range. When I checked them again, there were no cold spots.  So I knew everything had dried.

 

I did not think to get pictures when I did this. Next time I will remember and post them.

 

You may also noticed that I said I did 4 pounds instead of the 3 pounds that I had been limiting myself to. Based on Mikes earlier comments, I decided to up the amount I normally put in.It did take longer, but it did finish. I will try it with 4 pounds when I do a batch of blueberries this weekend and see how well that works.

Edited October 2, 2014 by dbinokc (log)

[Mr. Mike]

You might want to blanch the berries to crack the skins.  Skinned or tight celled fruit takes longer to dry due to the skin acting like a vapor barrier.  I talked with Matt about this a while ago.  Cracking the skins should help with the drying.

 

After my very limited exposure to fruit. I've decided not to do fruit anymore due to the low volume -yield and the high dry times.  I did 5 lbs of peaches and it took well over 36 hours to do.  Even if I lowered the volume to 3-4 lbs.. for me that is a very low return on investment i.e. 'letrick and run time for the machine.

 

Mr. Mike

Edited October 2, 2014 by Mr. Mike (log)

[Harvest Right]

Tim P. ,

 

Your assumption about very low mTorr readings around 100 is correct. The odds of having any moisture left in the food is very low if you have a uniform product that you are freeze drying. Personally, when I see this and there is about an hour or so left in the post-dry I pull the food out check the a thicker piece (if there is one) to make sure there isn't a tiny frozen nugget at the center. Almost always, the product is freeze-dried perfect and you are good to go. 

 

The key for this becomes doing a uniform product. Great question!

[Smithy]

I love to see the way this topic is developing. I'm sure Kerry has a long list already of things she's going to freeze-dry, but I'd like to know what happens to pesto when you freeze dry it. I'm about to harvest my basil before the freeze hits here. My usual method is to whir it with garlic and olive oil, freeze in cubes and some larger batches, and them defrost as needed - sometimes to be mixed with ground nuts and cheese for pesto, sometimes for other purposes. I'd be curious to know whether it can be freeze-dried -- that sure would save on freezer space and transport weight.

[Mr. Mike]

Fats and oils do not "dry" they pretty much stay the same.  I did some port butt sliced.. the layered fat has a harder consistency but is till is greasy.

 

The sausage that I have done in the past.. collects on the exterior..  I did some pepperoni and it was a total FAIL.  It was crispy like bacon.. but greasy as all get out.

 

See pic.  So I don't do anything that has a lot of fat or oil in it.. it doesn't go away.

 

I'm thinking the pesto will be a greasy consistency (not dry) with the oil content.

 

The sausage I've done was never really a good result... I've done, hot dogs, brats, hot links and summer sausages.. they were dry but with a greasy feel or actual grease drops on the casing or interior globs from the ground fat.

 

The pics are pepperoni

 

The slices were crispy, but VERY greasy as you can tell

 

Mr. Mike

[Kerry Beal]

Last kick at the cat before we head north very early tomorrow morning.  

 

 

Garlic cloves, lime leaves and guava puree.  Some of the garlic cloves seem to have remained damp - others are dry as a chip.  The damp ones seem to have the texture of black garlic - will store them in a closed container and see what develops.  

 

 

Galangal, pear slices and a lime from a small tree in a friends office.  

 

 

More tomatoes of course - they are too good now not to preserve, some thai basil and okra.  I salted the okra quite heavily before freezing it - interesting how the salt seems to have freeze dried as well.

 

I won't be freeze drying anything more until I'm back from up north - but will be using some of the FD'ed stuff I've made while we are up there.  

 

 

[Smithy]

I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with your haul!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

- will store them in a closed container and see what develops.  

 

Clostridium botulinum?

[Kerry Beal]

Clostridium botulinum?

Hope not - pretty low moisture I'd say.  

[JoNorvelleWalker]

You said "damp" above?

[Kerry Beal]

You said "damp" above?

Guess I should have said still appearing to contain moisture.

[dbinokc]

Just curious if any HR owners have oil appearing under their vacuum pumps. I do to not think it is coming from the vent.

It appears to be coming. from the shaft seal. It does not appear to be coming from the oil drain plug.

I just added about a quarter site glass full to get the oil level back up. I added about a 1/2 site glass full a few weeks back.

[Kerry Beal]

dbinokc - no sign of oil outside of my pump yet - unless I spill.  I tend to drain an ounce or two of watery oil off the pump each run and top up with fresh oil to the middle of the sight glass.

 

Over on the Falling Back on Island Time thread - I've started playing with some of the freeze dried foods I brought up north with me.