The rise and fall of Paula Deen

[rotuts]

Here we believe that everyone is equal...[pause]...except for those Laplanders."

Laplanders = PC for churka. ie non full ethnic Russians. from the Rodina.

[weinoo]

Many of the folks piling on with such thoughtful, impartial, considered analysis as, "she's a sack of shit," seem pretty happy they've got this opportunity to crucify her. This really gives them the moral high ground, doesn't it?

Get over it; it's just an expression, sort of like the one Paula uses lovingly towards her slaves employees.

Morally I am an no higher ground than anyone else here on eG, I can guarantee you that.

[Jaymes]

I am with you, rotuts. Paula Deen is not even close to the worst racists that you will find in Savannah or Boston. She is merely highly visible, that's all. And, as noted above, clueless. She is a Southern charmer, but not a bright person. Her boys are great-looking and personable, but I do not see either of them in line for the presidency of Harvard, either. No excuses, but in the history of racism in America, this woman could not even register a footnote...

I must say I've never paid much attention to Paula Deen, but "not a bright person" is the strongest impression that this incident has left on me.

If she says "Hollis Johnson is as black as that board," and Hollis Johnson comes walking out and he is "as black as that board," and she thinks she's just pointing out the obvious, which in truth she is of course, you could explain it to her ad infinitum and she still would not get the nuances that make saying so a very bad idea.

[rotuts]

and, just in time to add a little Spice to this discussion, PD's Boys are getting themselves in trouble with their own mouths, but you have to google that for yourself.

and then: Tomorrow : Today !

[SobaAddict70]

...someone like Paula Deen who fetishizes slavery and Jim Crow without a moment's hesitation. Or so it seems to me.

That would require some sort of thought and self-aware intent, it seems to me.

I think it's more a matter of being clueless.

Not that that's an excuse, because it pretty clearly isn't.

But it's hard for me to ascribe any sort of intentional malice to her. I don't think she "fetishizes slavery and Jim Crow." I think she genuinely doesn't "get it." I don't believe she holds any sort of hatred or ill will in her heart toward African Americans, and her knowledge that that's how she feels inside makes this all the harder for her to understand.

Yes, she's been insensitive and insulting, but I suspect she still doesn't really understand how hurtful her words and actions have been, and why people are saying she's a racist.

Like I said. I honestly believe she's just clueless.

With all due respect, saying she should be forgiven because she's from another time is a crutch. But that's okay; it's not your fault if you think that.

Well, I'll assume you're using the collective "you" in this post, rather than speaking directly to me, since I most certainly have never said anything of the sort.

Really?

What do you call this?

Yes, we learned all about it in school. And endless documentaries on television. There were many blacks who owned slaves back in the day, including Michelle Obama's family of origin. That was all over 150 years ago. Uncomfortable facts exist in all of our histories. Blaming an old woman for using a common word (and I do mean common, as in we didn't do that in my family) was the result of her relating an incident of being held at gunpoint by a black man.

People need to stop getting their dresses over their heads about stuff like this or at least be consistent and refuse to listen to rap music or watch Quentin Tarantino movies.

I'm with you on this one. And I've decided to immediately stop listening to rap music.

I'm rethinking the Quentin Tarantino movies.

Edited June 25, 2013 by SobaAddict70 (log)

[rotuts]

SobaAddict70

your last post ( above ) is way beyond me. but its pretty hot here and Im thinking about another ice cold beer, in an ice cold glass with 1/2 " of BeerIce in it. ( Canadian )

[Jaymes]

...someone like Paula Deen who fetishizes slavery and Jim Crow without a moment's hesitation. Or so it seems to me.

That would require some sort of thought and self-aware intent, it seems to me.

I think it's more a matter of being clueless.

Not that that's an excuse, because it pretty clearly isn't.

But it's hard for me to ascribe any sort of intentional malice to her. I don't think she "fetishizes slavery and Jim Crow." I think she genuinely doesn't "get it." I don't believe she holds any sort of hatred or ill will in her heart toward African Americans, and her knowledge that that's how she feels inside makes this all the harder for her to understand.

Yes, she's been insensitive and insulting, but I suspect she still doesn't really understand how hurtful her words and actions have been, and why people are saying she's a racist.

Like I said. I honestly believe she's just clueless.

With all due respect, saying she should be forgiven because she's from another time is a crutch. But that's okay; it's not your fault if you think that.

Well, I'll assume you're using the collective "you" in this post, rather than speaking directly to me, since I most certainly have never said anything of the sort.

Really?

What do you call this?

>

Yes, we learned all about it in school. And endless documentaries on television. There were many blacks who owned slaves back in the day, including Michelle Obama's family of origin. That was all over 150 years ago. Uncomfortable facts exist in all of our histories. Blaming an old woman for using a common word (and I do mean common, as in we didn't do that in my family) was the result of her relating an incident of being held at gunpoint by a black man.

People need to stop getting their dresses over their heads about stuff like this or at least be consistent and refuse to listen to rap music or watch Quentin Tarantino movies.

I'm with you on this one. And I've decided to immediately stop listening to rap music.

I'm rethinking the Quentin Tarantino movies.

Um, a smartass remark about rap music and Quentin Tarantino movies?

[GlorifiedRice]

Many of the folks piling on with such thoughtful, impartial, considered analysis as, "she's a sack of shit," seem pretty happy they've got this opportunity to crucify her. This really gives them the moral high ground, doesn't it?

Let me say this...

And Im sure people will think Im acting like a moral snob but...Whatevs' ya know?

I never use any racial slurs, I dont say gay slurs, and I most certainly never utter the R word either.

I didnt when I was a kid, didnt when I was a teen, didnt as a young woman or as an adult.

Someone once told me, "People either WANT to do things or they dont want to do them"!

I say its the same with racism, bigotry, sexism, classism, homophobia or other forms of discrimination.

You either do or ya dont...

If you arent a racist those words simply do not enter your mind or vocabulary.

Simple

[weinoo]

Many of the folks piling on with such thoughtful, impartial, considered analysis as, "she's a sack of shit," seem pretty happy they've got this opportunity to crucify her. This really gives them the moral high ground, doesn't it?

Let me say this...

And Im sure people will think Im acting like a moral snob but...Whatevs' ya know?

I never use any racial slurs, I dont say gay slurs, and I most certainly never utter the R word either.

I didnt when I was a kid, didnt when I was a teen, didnt as a young woman or as an adult.

Someone once told me, "People either WANT to do things or they dont want to do them"!

I say its the same with racism, bigotry, sexism, classism, homophobia or other forms of discrimination.

You either do or ya dont...

If you arent a racist those words simply do not enter your mind or vocabulary.

Simple

I don't think you're acting like a moral snob. As a matter of fact, I think you're absolutely correct.

[David Ross]

What some other food personalities and Chefs have to say:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/24/paula-deen-reactions_n_3490940.html

[prasantrin]

Many of the folks piling on with such thoughtful, impartial, considered analysis as, "she's a sack of shit," seem pretty happy they've got this opportunity to crucify her. This really gives them the moral high ground, doesn't it?

Let me say this...

And Im sure people will think Im acting like a moral snob but...Whatevs' ya know?

I never use any racial slurs, I dont say gay slurs, and I most certainly never utter the R word either.

I didnt when I was a kid, didnt when I was a teen, didnt as a young woman or as an adult.

Someone once told me, "People either WANT to do things or they dont want to do them"!

I say its the same with racism, bigotry, sexism, classism, homophobia or other forms of discrimination.

You either do or ya dont...

If you arent a racist those words simply do not enter your mind or vocabulary.

Simple

Untrue. You cannot control the thoughts that pop into your head at any given time. And if you are raised hearing words that promote racism, sexism, etc. etc. there's a good chance those words will pop into your mind whether you want them to or not. And everyone has prejudices. Everyone, whether you (general "you") admit to them or not.

That being said, you can control your actions. Just because the word n***** comes to mind doesn't mean you have to say it, nor does it mean you have to treat someone with the indignity that the word implies. And just because you have prejudices doesn't mean you are, or have to be, prejudiced.

However, when you are raised a certain way with certain ideas, it can be very difficult overcome those ideas and the behaviours that accompany them. It is only if you are self-aware that you can do so (if you choose). It's very possible (and likely) that PD does not have that self awareness, and it is also very likely that the people around her ignored or even condoned the kind of language to which she has admitted using. She still has to take responsibility for using those words, but I, personally, don't think her actions are quite as reprehensible as many others do.

(and I probably have more direct experience with such matters than most if not all posters here, not just because I'm brown (so I have directly experienced racism), but also because both my parents grew up privileged in very socioeconomically stratified societies. I know very well the attitudes of people like Paula Deen because I have seen / heard family members display those attitudes, not towards people of different "races", but towards those of the same "race", but of lower socioeconomic classes.)

[rotuts]

Am I missing something here? in the ref above to

What some other food personalities and Chefs have to say there is this:

It's really a loss because she's had such a positive effect on the American diet

– Michael Pollan

this doesn't sound quite right.

[prasantrin]

Am I missing something here? in the ref above to

What some other food personalities and Chefs have to say there is this:

It's really a loss because she's had such a positive effect on the American diet

– Michael Pollan

this doesn't sound quite right.

Did you read the sidebar?

Michael Pollan was a guest on Bill Maher's show on Friday and apparently isn't afraid of a little sarcasm.

[annabelle]

"R word"? What?

[rotuts]

Did you read the sidebar?

missed it. my browser is all tightened up for no-to-none of those cookies and other untasty bits. I even have a snitchy thingy.

BTW thanks for the ref to that clip. its fantastic and recommended to all.

(FD: had to get a different browser out of moth-balls ... )

Edited June 26, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[mrsadm]

Not having read all the posts here, I'll nevertheless jump in with an opinion... :-) Lots of famous people get away with ethnic slurs as bad as PD's. (Remember the Alaskan politician referring to "wetbacks" in a recent interview?) and their careers don't crash. Her sin also occurred years ago. So who cares? I don't understand the outrage at this.

I suspect something else is up. She's pissed off someone in Food Network, perhaps. Someone has jumped on this excuse to shame her, and fire her. I hope she's saved a few sheckles from her business empire.

[GlorifiedRice]

Untrue. You cannot control the thoughts that pop into your head at any given time. And if you are raised hearing words that promote racism, sexism, etc. etc. there's a good chance those words will pop into your mind whether you want them to or not. And everyone has prejudices. Everyone, whether you (general "you") admit to them or not.

I was raised by a Old Kentucky Boy, born in 1920 who was a racist and used those words... nope discrimination did not enter my mind cause I knew from early on it was wrong, cause I saw my Dad looking like an ass.

[GlorifiedRice]

"R word"? What?

The R word that refers to Mentally challenged persons. Which is good that I never used or use it as a slur or a put down cause my son is Mentally Challenged.

[gfweb]

Untrue. You cannot control the thoughts that pop into your head at any given time. And if you are raised hearing words that promote racism, sexism, etc. etc. there's a good chance those words will pop into your mind whether you want them to or not. And everyone has prejudices. Everyone, whether you (general "you") admit to them or not.

I was raised by a Old Kentucky Boy, born in 1920 who was a racist and used those words... nope discrimination did not enter my mind cause I knew from early on it was wrong, cause I saw my Dad looking like an ass.

It is a mistake to assume that your personal experience is generalizable. Your experience has no more weight than Prasantrin's, and FWIW I have a hard time believing that your thoughts are always above reproach.

[rotuts]

see the vid mentioned above. the case for the N word being in its own class is clearly made

[GlorifiedRice]

Not having read all the posts here, I'll nevertheless jump in with an opinion... :-) Lots of famous people get away with ethnic slurs as bad as PD's. (Remember the Alaskan politician referring to "wetbacks" in a recent interview?) and their careers don't crash. Her sin also occurred years ago. So who cares? I don't understand the outrage at this.

NO, it didnt occur years ago, its ongoing. Paula continues to say racist and racially insensitive things...

Everyday there are new videos popping up of her putting her foot in her mouth.

See what Paula does not get is, her "Joking Racism" (IE saying her "black friend" is black as that board") isnt cute or funny, it is still racism.

Its still openly demonstrating that SHE is different than HIM, that hes black as that board but she still loves him...

Its the word STILL there that is the racism.

Like, "Look everybody, I have a black friend, he may be black but I love him anyway"

Thats what she means...

And thats, in its core, what racism is. Its discriminating between 2 different people and treating them as such.

[Kim Shook]

Excellent article from African-American culinary historian, Michael W. Twitty: http://afroculinaria.com/2013/06/25/an-open-letter-to-paula-deen/

[rotuts]

and from the WSJ today ( you may or not need to be a subscriber hard for me to say as I am one )

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323998604578567832751771860.html?mod=trending_now_5

[annabelle]

Blacks don't have ultimate moral authority on who gets to say what. I've heard plenty of terrible things said by all groups of people.

As someone said somewhere, "N***** is an attitude, not a skin color." The late Robert Byrd (D-KKK) used it on television before he died to refer to "white n*******".

[annabelle]

and from the WSJ today ( you may or not need to be a subscriber hard for me to say as I am one )

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323998604578567832751771860.html?mod=trending_now_5

I think this is more likely, rotuts. Paula Deen has outlived her useful life on Food Networkand they have used the deposition to not renew her contract. Her husband is wealthy in his own right. They won't go barefoot.

Edited June 26, 2013 by annabelle (log)