Cooking with "Modernist Cuisine at Home" (Part 1)

[slkinsey]

I haven't cooked from the book yet, though I received it this week, but it seems like there are a lot of comments here that seem to be rather critical, which is surprising. Too much butter, no wine flavor, not sure I'll do this method again, etc. Not something I usually see in cooking with (....) threads. Did they overdo things here? Complicate things more than necessary?

I think it's a combination of things.

In some cases a person may just not care for a certain recipe. This happens in every cookbook. Not everyone likes everything.

Or it may be that some people have a favorite recipe already. For example, MCAH has a recipe for a very garlicky pizza sauce that is pressure-cooked. My idea of pizza sauce is an uncooked mixture of coarsely crushed San Marzano tomatoes, salt and a drizzle of extra virgin olive oil. It's unlikely I will be won over by MCAH's version, but I might try it once to see what it's like. The result, however, is still probably going to be that I like my version better and am unlikely to do the MCAH recipe again.

Or it may be that some people have a preferred technique and don't see any reason to change. I have a friend who has been low-simmering meat stocks overnight on the stove for 20 years. This works for him and he doesn't see any reason to change. Even if he tried pressure cooking a stock once, he is likely to say that he's not sure he would use that method again. Similar things might be said about many sous vide techniques. Someone who is happy with the results he gets cooking his steaks under the broiler may think that vacuum sealing his steak, cooking it sous vide and then searing the outside with a blowtorch is too complicated to be worth it.

Or it may be -- and this is something I see a lot with recipes -- it may be that some people want the recipe to be something it isn't. The carrot soup is a good example. It is meant to be a rich soup, not something you would have a big bowl of every day for lunch. If you're worried about your fat intake, adjust the recipe. But you also can't complain if you don't like it that way. I wonder if the same thing may be true about the red wine glaze. Do we suppose it's really meant to taste strongly of red wine? I don't really think so. Cooking transforms red wine into something that doesn't have a particularly strong red wine flavor. Coq au vin also doesn't particularly taste of red wine, and yet we don't hear many complaints that "this coq au vin recipe doesn't taste all that much like red wine."

All of these things strike me as okay and expected for any cookbook.

[LoftyNotions]

All of these things strike me as okay and expected for any cookbook.

Well said!

+1

[Charcuterer]

The funny thing about cooking from MCatH for me is that even in the cases that I didn't love the recipe I feel like I learned something. For the Buffalo wings as I said earlier my wife liked the sauce but prefers our usual. I will not make that recipe again (particularly if she's eating with me) but the infused oil "Mayonaise" is a great technique. That is how I have been approaching the book.

[mayland]

I haven't cooked from the book yet, though I received it this week, but it seems like there are a lot of comments here that seem to be rather critical, which is surprising. Too much butter, no wine flavor, not sure I'll do this method again, etc. Not something I usually see in cooking with (....) threads. Did they overdo things here? Complicate things more than necessary?

I'll have to get a pressure cooker first too, it seems. Not bad, wanted one for a while, but noteworthy to those that don't have one and are on a limited budget. I want to make that carrot soup, compare it with the French Laundry version.

I mostly agree with the above responses to this. I would add that this is a cooking from the book topic, and contains a lot of opinion directed at specific recipe turnouts rather than overall book appraisal. In terms of build quality and presentation, information content about the hows and whys of both traditional and modernist techniques, and overall recipe range and quality, personally I find MCaH excellent. It's also not perfect in any of those categories. It's particularly frustrating when it falls short, because overall it comes closer to the ideal than almost any other book out there. Also because few other individuals or companies are as well positioned to produce anything that even remotely comes close. MC is so authoritative that when it does miss, you wonder who is going to hit. Ruhlman's Twenty and Kenji's Food Lab articles (and presumably the forthcoming book) I think do hit on some of these fronts, and are an interesting base for comparison. I also expect MCaH gains a lot when being taken in context of its big brother volumes, though I haven't read those myself.

My biggest gripe isn't so much about the recipes per se, but about the tunnel vision on pursuit of perfection. E.g. I will never again shuck mussels raw in order to sous vide them. In fact I do appreciate that MCaH presented this technique, and I learned a lot, not least of all that MCaH doesn't really care about diminishing returns. Probably that's a conscious choice, and to be fair, it's a telling point in the book's favor that this isn't so much an issue with what the book does give you, but really just a complaint that it leaves out the "much easier, but arguably nearly as good" techniques, and I guess there are many sources for those.

All that said, yes, the recipe hit rate is a little low for me in my tiny sampling of five. Four of those recipes have been good, but they haven't been great, and they have sometimes been fussy or wasteful. That said, the caramelized carrot soup is kick-ass.

[Merkinz]

I think it is fair to expect high quality and consistent results from a cookbook of this price. When recipes call for measurements to the tenth of a gram and cooking temperatures to the exact degree then you have to expect that those measurements are precise AND accurate.

I've cooked a bit from "Heston Blumenthal at Home" which is of the same ilk and I had great success with that book (that was less than half the price). My 'strike rate' from MCAH does indeed fall shot of what I was expecting in terms of how the recipes turn out and taste.

That said, i'm definitely happy with the book. I just won't be preordering any future offerings from the Modernist Cuisine lab.

[OliverB]

great input and thoughts here, thanks! Don't want to derail this from straight up cooking, but thought the discussion fits better here (since it's about cooking with) than in the other thread just about the book in the cookbook section. I'm looking forward to cooking some things from it, this damn nice and warm California weather is keeping me glued to the bbq for now, but eventually we'll get a couple cold and/or rainy days I'm sure. And MCAH as well as Heston's book are waiting impatiently for that :-)

[Hugh Anderson]

It's interesting to hear everyone else's reaction to the book. I've liked it from day one, and the more time I spend with it, the more I like it. I've cooked several dozen recipes so far, with plans to cook maybe 80-90% of the book. Whether or not a dish blows me away is almost beside the point, as I see many of the recipes as practice or demonstrations of various cooking methods.

One of my favorite finds right now is the pressure-cooked braise master recipe for carnitas and specifically the idea of cooking the meat with nothing more than stock and building the sauce separately, opening up the door for more control of the final flavor and consistency of the sauce. Tonight I used that idea to make chile con carne, pressure-cooking beef in stock while separately making a chile paste from chiles, pressure-cooked garlic confit, and the chili spice mix from the book (which come to find out is a little too heavy on the cinnamon for my liking in a chile con carne). I was able to get the sauce to a consistency I liked without needing to thicken with masa harina or cornmeal and all in under an hour from start to finish.

[EnriqueB]

I think it is fair to expect high quality and consistent results from a cookbook of this price. When recipes call for measurements to the tenth of a gram and cooking temperatures to the exact degree then you have to expect that those measurements are precise AND accurate.

I disagree. Precise measurements and temperatures do not imply accuracy (or, more "precisely", the capacity to reproduce the recipe in an accurate way). They are great because, with respect to the standard way recipes are presented, they remove some of the sources of uncertainty. But only to a (likely small) extent. The quality of the ingredients or the knowledge and experience of the cook are still subject to high variation, not to talk about the huge differences in tastes or expectations from cook to cook.

Having precise measurements and temperatures provides a better departure point, but will never ensure reproducibility. In fact, perfect reproducibility would imply an industrialized kitchen, something I would not want either...

[Judy Wilson]

Hi eGulleters!

The team has really enjoyed watching this thread. We hope that you are happy with the book.

We are going back to press again already! We need to send any corrections to our printer this week. We haven't spotted many errors, but there are a few minor ones. We'll also be addressing the Red Wine Glaze recipe, making it clearer when to add the beef back in, so thanks for pointing that out! If you have any other corrections or suggestions, please email them to me at info@modernistcuisine.com. We have always appreciated the support you've given us in this regard.

Have a happy and safe Halloween! (personally, I will be bringing my pressure cooker over to a friend's house and making the squash soup variation tonight!)

Judy

[Charcuterer]

I am going to make the slow cooked chicken smothered in onions for dinner tonight. Has anyone tried that one? I'm curious about how it turned out.

[Bojana]

I am going to make the slow cooked chicken smothered in onions for dinner tonight. Has anyone tried that one? I'm curious about how it turned out.

I made it, with some modifications . Used chicken legs, which perhaps was a mistake. My onions did not look anything like in the picture in the end, they were crunchy and the meat was a tad too tough. Most likely my fault but I was not too thrilled by this recipe. To be fair, I was stressed out (sick hubby and sick child) and rushing to serve it so that may have contributed to the fact that I did not enjoy it. Please let us know how yours turned out, I want to give it another try soon as well.

[slkinsey]

I made the pork adobo again, this time with pork butt instead of pork belly (no pork belly to be had a the local market, not even for ready money). Still turned out delicious, if a bit less unctuous.

[rotuts]

this is good for me to know. its a little trip for me to get pork belly at Chinatown-West in Alliston. Did the 'sinews' in the butt come out tender? how did you trim the BB?

Edited November 1, 2012 by rotuts (log)

[slkinsey]

Didn't trim the butt at all. Left in all the sinews and pieces if fat, and left the skin on the outside. Just cut it into strips as-is, and cut those strips into chunks. It's definitely not as good as it is with belly. But it's still pretty damn good. Completely tender. If anything, the leaner pieces are a touch dry (although not unappetizingly so).

[rotuts]

thanks. this means for me that a whole butt can be made into adobo, carnitas, char-sui etc a great way to ( initially ) go.

[TheFrisley]

I am going to make the slow cooked chicken smothered in onions for dinner tonight. Has anyone tried that one? I'm curious about how it turned out.

I made the slow cooked chicken smothered in onions a few weeks ago and was really pleased with the results. I used breasts and thighs as the recipe requested, and cooked them at about 190 (the lowest my oven would go). While the onions didn't look quite as appetizing as they did in the book, they were still delicious. I will definitely make this recipe again.

[Charcuterer]

My Chicken and onions got short circuited by my forgetfulness. I left it in the fridge at my office, doh! So instead I am doing the Hush puppies (variation on tamales, page 340.) I will try to post pictures and a review.

[Charcuterer]

The Hush puppies turned out amazing. Using the Masa Harina you get a very different texture on the inside compared to regular corn meal. I had to go a bit longer than the recipe specified to get the insides done (5 minutes as opposed to 3 to 4). I will try the batter as tamales tomorrow. I have some leftover short ribs that should be amazing in them.

[slkinsey]

So... I made the pork belly BLT tonight. Delicious!

Edited November 4, 2012 by slkinsey (log)

[Todd in Chicago]

Pressure-Cooked Pork Belly Adobo

This looked good in the book to me so I thought 'why not' ... So I made a half batch

I measured out all the ingredients (everything shown below except the soy sauce) and thought ... "is that it?" not much really goes into this.

... in then out of the pressure cooker ...

Strained, reduced, glazed ...

WOW! This dish packed some flavor! By far my favorite recipe from the book thus far. It is dead simple to make, has relatively few ingredients but transforms into something truly wonderful.

Some of the meat (the bigger muscle pieces furtherest away from the skin) dried out a bit but didn't detract too much from the dish. I'd be interested if anyone had any ideas on how to avoid this ... I've never had much luck with pork.

None the less a great recipe for a great meal.

wow, that looks great and easy!

any chance for the measurements? my book is still on the way!

thanks!

I made a batch of this yesterday evening and can't wait to try it! When I was at the butcher, I just asked for about 3.5 lbs. of pork belly and ended up close to 3.3 lbs. Wow...I guess I wasn't paying that much attention or thinking clearly because I didn't catch in your post that you made 1/2 a batch....3.3 lbs. of pork belly is quite a bit! I was almost thinking it wouldn't all fit in my PC, but it did with no problem. The house does fill with a very aromatic smell when making this. I'll have make up batches of this and store it in the freezer, as pork belly being as rich as it is, 3.3 lbs. will last quite a while for a household of 2! I'll report back on my initial tasting and subsequent tasting to see how the freezing process impacts the dish. Cheers....Todd in Chicago

[rotuts]

on the PC pork belly, as above: is everyone using fresh bay leaves? Im guessing the fresh are 'sweeter' than the dried. so far have not found fresh.

and a trip to Chinatown-Allston this am was very disappointing: no pork belly! its a Ranch-88 and almost went out of buisness and is now HongKong but seems a little sad at the edges.

[Todd in Chicago]

on the PC pork belly, as above: is everyone using fresh bay leaves? Im guessing the fresh are 'sweeter' than the dried. so far have not found fresh.

and a trip to Chinatown-Allston this am was very disappointing: no pork belly! its a Ranch-88 and almost went out of buisness and is now HongKong but seems a little sad at the edges.

I did not use fresh bay leaves - seems like trying to find a needled in a haystack. A Whole Foods associate told me that they sometimes have them, but the info seemed sketchy. I've used dried bay leaves and halved the amount. I'll have to see how they came out. Cheers.....Todd in Chicago

[rotuts]

as I thought. love to see some pics!

[HowardLi]

I'd like to make the braised short ribs but I don't want to go to the trouble of making the red wine glaze. How else can I sauce/garnish it?

Anyone?

[Chris Hennes]

Do you have any further requirements? It's just beef, after all: there are thousands of potential sauces/glazes/etc.