Cooking with "Modernist Cuisine" (Part 1)

[nickrey]

My books have arrived.

Here is the beef cheek pastrami. Served tonight with mashed potato, Red Cabbage with Wine, and an Israeli pickle.

Edited March 29, 2011 by nickrey (log)

[KosherDIY]

I wanted to try the MC method for a pot-roast (the cutaway pot under coals that the media loves so much). I have a nice sized goat-shoulder and the cast-iron dutch oven. The instructions say to place the dutch oven under the broiler element on low, but no time is mentioned. If I seal the pot with clay/dough to prevent water loss, I can't very well use a thermometer probe.

Anyone have advice/guidelines on how long it cooks for? If it's hermetically sealed, can it go for as long as a SV braise?

[FoodMan]

I wanted to try the MC method for a pot-roast (the cutaway pot under coals that the media loves so much). I have a nice sized goat-shoulder and the cast-iron dutch oven. The instructions say to place the dutch oven under the broiler element on low, but no time is mentioned. If I seal the pot with clay/dough to prevent water loss, I can't very well use a thermometer probe.

Anyone have advice/guidelines on how long it cooks for? If it's hermetically sealed, can it go for as long as a SV braise?

Meat+Dutch Oven+Coals?? How "Modernist" and crazy of the MC team.

Serously though, can you not insert the probe (assuming it's an electronic thermometer with a cord and all) and then put the clay/dough around it?

[KosherDIY]

I *could* mold the clay around a probe-cord, but this being MC and all, I'm not even sure what temperature would be "done". For a classic pot-roast, you get instructions like:

"Cook in the oven for 30 minutes at 325 degrees F (165 degrees C). Reduce the heat to 300 degrees F (150 degrees C), and cook for 1 1/2 hours."

Under coals (or a broiler), there isn't a specific oven temperature. Since the MC team considers this the best way to make a pot-roast, maybe nathanm could suggest how long the sealed dutch oven goes under the broiler? Is there a target temperature?

Edited March 30, 2011 by KosherDIY (log)

[nickrey]

I *could* mold the clay around a probe-cord, but this being MC and all, I'm not even sure what temperature would be "done". For a classic pot-roast, you get instructions like:

"Cook in the oven for 30 minutes at 325 degrees F (165 degrees C). Reduce the heat to 300 degrees F (150 degrees C), and cook for 1 1/2 hours."

Under coals (or a broiler), there isn't a specific oven temperature. Since the MC team considers this the best way to make a pot-roast, maybe nathanm could suggest how long the sealed dutch oven goes under the broiler? Is there a target temperature?

I know this may lead to a whole new discussion, and it is one that we've had previously, but as a general guide the following core temperatures correspond to the associated level of "doneness". Note that if you are using a high heat source to cook, you are going to get continuing cooking while "resting the meat" which can represent up to an additional 2C.

Blue = 45C

rare = 50C

medium-rare = 55C

medium = 60C

medium well = 65C

well = 70C

[Guy MovingOn]

I have a question regarding the pressure cooked carrot soup. I don't have the books yet (2 more weeks hopefully!) but I seem to recall from the videos talking about this recipe that no water is added to the carrots inside the pressure cooker. I'm pretty sure that most pressure cookers require you to fill them to a certain level with a liquid.

Could you clarify on how the pressure cooked carrots are made? Thanks!

[Chris Hennes]

You add butter, which actually has quite a bit of water in it, as do the carrots. But you are correct in that you don't add any other liquids.

[Guy MovingOn]

I bought a pork shoulder yesterday with hopes to make pulled pork. Any tips on how to make MC pulled pork? (Since I don't have my books yet!)

[Chris Amirault]

Yes: I don't have the books handy, but there's a recipe in there for pulled pork.

[Chris Hennes]

They recommend smoking at 65°C, 60% RH for 7 hours, then sous vide at 65°C for 72 hours.

[Chris Hennes]

Has anyone else here tried the reconstructed cheese slices? I'm starting in on those burgers, so today I made the reconstructed swiss cheese slices. I found that my cheese was not as liquid as it appears in the photo, and wonder if I didn't manage to overdo the carrageenan. I was able to coax it into the mold without too much difficulty, but it didn't quite pour the way it appears to in the photo.

[Chris Hennes]

I pressure-rendered some tallow yesterday following the instructions in the book (including the addition of the baking soda). I haven't eaten any yet (it's for the burgers), but it smells fantastic. I got just over 100mL of liquid tallow from the trim of a three pound chuck roast.

In the pressure-cooking method you combine the fatty tissue with water and baking soda and put it in a canning jar (I ran mine through the blender first):

Then you pressure cook at 15psi for four hours. I decanted into a container I'd actually be able to get the solid fat out of, and let it solidify overnight in the fridge.

The resulting fat is very white, and smells intensely of fresh tallow.

[emannths]

Can talk about the rationale for using the baking soda? In this article, Myhrvold says "we have a technique for doing fat rendering, for example. It's a little thing, but you render it in a pressure cooker with a little bit of baking soda. And that create this amazing roasted fat level because the alkali nature of the baking soda helps promote the Maillard reaction."

But all over the internet, there are instructions for adding baking soda when rendering fat, usually to make it whiter or cleaner tasting/smelling. Heck, this book from 1919 talks about using it. But Myhrvold clearly thinks he's onto something here. So is it that he explains why it works, or that it does something different than conventional wisdom says, or just that he reinvented this particular wheel?

[Chris Hennes]

The page on rendering is just a breakdown of four different rendering methods, without a tremendous amount of detail. He mentions that their favorite way to render is via the pressure cooker, and that you can optionally add baking soda. The addition of baking soda is itself discussed separately in the pressure-cooking section as a way to speed the Maillard reaction.

[emannths]

It just seems counterintuitive that a Maillard promoter would lead to whiter, cleaner tasting fat. I would have expected the opposite (browner, more complex/richer flavor).

[Chris Hennes]

I'm not sure it's leading to "cleaner tasting" fat, though the fat is indeed pretty white.

[jsmeeker]

How does the tallow come into play in the burger recipe?

[Chris Hennes]

You use it to brush onto the buns to toast them, and then there is a small amount in the "glaze." Wouldn't want the burger to not be beefy enough, would you?

[Mjx]

How does the tallow come into play in the burger recipe?

I may have missed something, but for cooking purposes, isn't suet preferred to tallow?

I have to admit that suet is the only sort of beef fat I've ever experimented with, and I use a very primitive rendering system (freeze the fresh clump, slice it up, melt at lowest possible temp., filter through white t-shirt), which does, however, yield a white and virtually odourless fat.

Is tallow more 'beefy'?

[Fat Guy]

I thought tallow was rendered suet.

[Mjx]

I thought tallow was rendered suet.

Suet is [from] the fat around the kidneys, and renders harder and whiter than tallow, which comes from... elsewhere on the cow.

[Chris Amirault]

A few updates.

The Jean-Georges Vongerichten inspired chili oil is amazing. I have been drizzling it on this leftover flank steak I cooked SV for tortillas last week, and just with that oil and a bit of salt it's a revelation. There's something about the multiple infusions -- vacuum-sealed, then heated SV, then cooled, then strained -- that seems to bring out a very layered, nuanced complexity of flavor.

Finishing up some bacon soon, but won't smoke until after a business trip.

The short rib pastrami is tonight's dinner. I have been mesmerized by this process and am eager to see how it turns out. Pix, of course, later.

[jsmeeker]

You use it to brush onto the buns to toast them, and then there is a small amount in the "glaze." Wouldn't want the burger to not be beefy enough, would you?

oh my. All that to toast buns. Butter just doesn't cut it, I suppose.

[emannths]

I did some poking around, and I think I've come up with the answer for why baking soda may be used in fat rendering

When you render fat, your goal is to separate the fats (triglycerides) from the water and solids. The problem is that fats break down into fatty acids (which may also occur naturally in the tissue), which act as excellent emulsifiers. The fatty acids stabilize the presence of water in the fat phase, and also contribute to flavor and color in the fat phase. By adding alkali (in this case, baking soda), the fatty acids are neutralized and lose their emulsifying ability, allowing easier separation of the water phase from the fat phase and providing a "cleaner" fat product.

Source at Google books, for anyone interested.

[slkinsey]

I thought tallow was rendered suet.

To the best of my knowledge, it is incorrect to use "tallow" to signify "rendered cow fat" the way we use the word "lard" to signify "rendered pig fat."

The various references say that tallow is the rendered fat of either cattle, sheep or horses (etc.) with a certain composition of fatty acids and certain properties that is used industrially to make candles, soap, lubricants, etc. Vegetable fat with similar properties is also called "tallow."