Refrigerated pastry display case help

[gfron1]

I just looked through all of our other topics on display cases and they're either for confections or non-refrigerated. I really don't want to shell out $10K...or even $6K. I've never bought specifically for pastries (I'm thinking humidity, temp, etc). What do I need to know when I'm looking for cases? And best sources?

[Kerry Beal]

I know sweet bugger all about pastry cases, however I recall a thread where we were talking about what Kee's in NYC used for her chocolate and Kinco was the brand. Perhaps ChristopherMichael could weigh in and tell us what he discovered when he was researching them.

[Tri2Cook]

Can't help with this one Rob. I researched them just enough to know that, for me, the benefit wouldn't justify the expense. I know your situation is different, I don't have a store. I'd like to have one in the restaurant but don't actually need it. Actually, I guess I shouldn't assume you want it for your store. Maybe you are wanting it for your restaurant.

[gfron1]

The store and restaurant are one essentially. What I know is that anything I bake sells faster than it hits the shelf...when customers see it. If I had a case I could fill it pretty quickly and increase sales. The question is could I sell enough to justify the expense. But right now I don't know what I need or how much that expense would really be.

[pastrygirl]

How much of your pastry really needs to be kept refrigerated? If you are doing your mousse cakes for retail, or a lot of cheesecake, or jars of lemon curd that might justify it but a whole lot of stuff is better at room temperature (health dept allowing).

I don't have any answers either. How about a little countertop sushi refrigerator? If you only need a little space and can restock from a larger chiller they are less than $10k... http://www.sushi-knifes.com/Merchant2/merc...ategory_Code=SR

[CaliPoutine]

Have you checked the major cities close to you to see if anyone is going out of business? Maybe craigs list or the like?

[gfron1]

that's so sad to think about, but you're right, I should be watching for the going out of business sales. And pastrygirl, I was eyeing the sushi cases. A countertop can be as slow as $2k, which might make a lot more sense.

I'm thinking of my need-to-be-chilled stuff like mousse based cakes and entremets. I already have my room temp stuff wrapped on top of the counter, but if I can have both in the same case, that's even better.

[JeanneCake]

Sometimes your sales reps can let you know about someone looking to sell a piece of equipment; the local rest supply places are also a good source of info. In our area, we have a used equipment store as well so perhaps you could look into neighboring big cities and see if they have anything for you.

Or you could always get a clear front reach in (single door) that can chill beverages as well as put your whole cakes in so it can do double duty....

[Edward J]

"Good" pastry cases usually run about $1000.00 per foot. (ie a 4' will cost 4 grand). You can get cheap cases and they are cheap.

The cheap ones are gravity coil, that is the coil is mounted at the top of the case, and works on the principle of cold air flowing down. These invariabley ice up and drip water.

Unless all your pastries are sealed or otherwise covered, don't use a regular forced air cooler, like for pop, The fan will blow and dry out your pastries in hours.

The best pastry cases use forced air, but cold air is gently blown around in a curtain, from the bottom of the case to the top, pastries don't dry out. The ideal case has double glazed glass, so the case never fogs up--even with direct sunlight shining on it. So-so cases direct a curtain of air on the outside of the glass like a window defoggger, and cheap cases ignore the problem all together and you get fogged up glass and condensation water allover the place.

Ideal pastry cases have a good sliding door system, the very best cases use a drawer system. Think about it, bending over and reaching in that case 8 hrs a day is hard on your back. Cheap cases have cheap doors with lousy seals and tracks that self destroy within a few years.

Unless you're competant in refrigeration mechanics, DO NOT by used. Like cars, 1 and 2 year old units can be badly abused and still appear to be in good shape. Insufficient amperage at the outlet, not cleaning out the compressor radiator, running the unit with open doors or lousy door seals for a year or so will wreak havoc with the compressor. Storing acidic items like vinegars, salad dressings, tomato products, yeast, and unrisen breads will corrode the coil. You won't know this if you buy used.

Find reputable dealers and really study the brochures. Best scenerio is to buy smaller units as you need them, but buy good quality. There's nothing more heart wrenching then coming into work at 4 am and seeing a puddle of water all over the floor, all your work waterlogged, and having to pay for repair as well......

[Just loafing]

Maybe we've been lucky, but we've bought used and not had disasters. Look for auctions, restaurant supply places that sell used equipment ... sometimes they even give warranties. Another source to watch for is a franchise that is renovating ... we acquired a lot of stuff from a franchise that was first not doing scratch anymore, then had a mandated renovation. In those situations, the franchisee has to have stuff gone, either sold, given away or to the dump, when the reno crew is ready to begin.

[Tri2Cook]

Unless all your pastries are sealed or otherwise covered, don't use a regular forced air cooler, like for pop,  The fan will blow and dry out your pastries in hours.

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Very true. Since I use that type of cooler for letting the skin on poultry air dry, I tested the drying power a while back by placing a shallow pan of very soft (wet) gelee in uncovered and within less than two days it dehydrated to a thin, rubbery sheet. In not much more time, it became a dry, papery layer that crumbled to pieces if moved. Something with less water content wouldn't last long uncovered/unwrapped.

[pastrygirl]

I'm thinking of my need-to-be-chilled stuff like mousse based cakes and entremets.  I already have my room temp stuff wrapped on top of the counter, but if I can have both in the same case, that's even better.

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Better for saving space? I gotta say I vote no to cold cookies.

[Edward J]

Maybe we've been lucky, but we've bought used and not had disasters. Look for auctions, restaurant supply places that sell used equipment ... sometimes they even give warranties.

Oi vey... Then you must be lucky. Auctions are not in the habit of giving warranties, reputable used food eqpt dealers (stress the word reputable) usually give a 3 mth warranty.

Look, the older the unit is, the more harder it is to get the right type of freon gas. Units older than 10 years run on R12 gas, which is illegal to get. Newer gasses are much more thinner and more prone to leaks. Read my above post on caveats of used refrigeration eqpt. Then stop and think: A refrigeration repair guy charges around $60 per hour, plus a truck fee, parts are extra--if he has them on the truck.

No one said you couldn't buy a used case and either yank out the guts or leave it unplugged and use it for dry stuff like cookies.

I frequently haunt the auctions and used food eqpt places, but I never buy any refrigeration. Smallwares, pans, bowls, china, sinks, tables, preptables, shelving, all that yes-either it's broke or it isn't. Most gas eqipment is fairly reliable and easy to repair, used Hobarts are bomb proof; but don't stick out your neck and buy used refrigeration.

[K8memphis]

I was looking for a box like they have in Starbucks where the cold drinks are in the bottom in the open front and the baked goods are viewable from the front but the doors are in the back.

Then I wound up getting a used Coke box like they have in the grocery stores, curved glass doors in front, windows on the side, adorable box. Said to be in good condition. Needed it for drinks.

So come to find out the thermostat was coiled up in the top of the box not even installed. The company I bought it from advised me to file a complaint with the shipper but they would help me fill out the paperwork. As if the shipper took the time to diddle with any of the mechanics in there (think it was the thermostat).

The coil was nasty with ickbo-mojo (aka nasty sh*t) so the repair guy blew it out in the bookstore. Pretty sure that's why God invented vaccuums but I'm not a frige repair person. I got sick sick sick from the nasty air.

The cover for the bulb inside needs to be replaced. The Coke company will not part with one. No way no how.

The seal on one of the doors doesn't connect with the box.

So other than that I had a great experience with A City in Atlanta Georgia. They are big on Ebay.

Edited January 3, 2009 by K8memphis (log)

[gfron1]

I've bought from A Plus many times (only new items) and have always had good luck. They just sent me a discount coupon this morning which is making me want to look again. I've re-organized my counters and shelves to see if I really like the idea of a sushi case on top of my bar.

[K8memphis]

I've bought from A Plus many times (only new items) and have always had good luck.  They just sent me a discount coupon this morning which is making me want to look again.  I've re-organized my counters and shelves to see if I really like the idea of a sushi case on top of my bar.

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Is A Plus the same as A City?

My box should have been sold 'as is' rather than 'good working condition'.

[gfron1]

Yeah, sorry about that. I must have been thinking of my shoe size at the time

[K8memphis]

I dug around a little on ebay and I couldn't even find any A City--they might still be there but not near as prevalent. I did see A Plus.

[gfron1]

HERE'S their website

HERE are their auctions

and their EBay store

[gfron1]

HERE'S what I'm leaning toward right now - a 3' sushi case. Right size and re-coupable price.

[Edward J]

HERE'S what I'm leaning toward right now - a 3' sushi case.  Right size and re-coupable price.

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Sigh........

You will be dealing with some serious condensation issues, as well as a lot of ice forming on the coil. The only way to remove the ice is to manually de-frost. Are you sure you want to do this?

[gfron1]

No need for sighs...what am I missing from your previous comments? Is your concern the coil v. forced air issue?

I'm trying to balance cost v. concerns. I'm a very low output business so after crunching my $s, spending more than $3500 makes it a no-profit effort. So looking at that price range, this seemed to make the most sense. And I guess to answer the question about defrosting, because of my low volume, I don't mind doing a defrost regularly (say monthly). I don't plan on having more in the case than I can sell in a day or two. The rest will remain frozen until they need to be moved into the display.

Help me out here - as you're suggesting, I don't want to buy something that I'll regret in 3 months. Thanks.

[baroness]

gfron,

From the site you linked:

Product Specifications

Air-Cooled 115/60/1 65 Lbs. R-134A Not intended for overnight storage.

NSF Standard 7 Lin - Condensing Unit is on LEFT from front view

Is this okay for your needs?

[Edward J]

No... It's just that I've been there and I realized about 20 years ago that the cheapest way to go is to buy a proper, dedicated pastry case.

A sushi case is designed for sushi. Customers have no problem visually with a side of salmon or tuna directly underneath a hunk of ice. These cases need to be defrosted every two or three days. Every time you open the door, warm air goes into the case and sticks onto the coil where it turns to ice/frost. After a few days the ice layer gets so big you don't have much room left in the case. Plus the ice/frost melts and drips--which isn't such a big deal for a hunk of salmon or tuna, but deadly for Tirimisu or other delicate pastries. Once you buy equipment and decide you don't need it/want it, very rarely will you get back what you paid for it. Used food equipment is just as lucrative and profitable as used cars--dealers always make money

How much can a sushi case hold? $20 or $30 worth of goods? Is it worth the effort to defrost every two days and deal with water and spoiled goods?

You're better off getting a forced air cooler and packaging your items in see-through takeaway containers. On the plus side of this you can buy any type of refrigeration, and the desserts are grab n'go, no fussing around with taking out and transferring into boxes or bags. You can also display bottled drinks and sandwiches in there too. On the minus side you will have to pay more for see-through containers and they do take up more space.

I mean no dissrespect, I hope this helps.

[gfron1]

That's very helpful. Back to the drawing board. Actually, I'm going to call ACity and let them do the work for me. I'm assuming they might be a bit motivated to find me the right thing.