Barbecue/Smoker Recommendations

[snowangel]

c. Should I more seriously consider charcoal? While I like the IDEA of a charcoal grill - I see the propane as something I will actually use on an 'every day' basis and the time requirements of a charcoal grill would, I think, relegate it to 'weekends only.'

So, any help?

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I'm seriously entrenched in the charcoal grill school. I have a Weber Kettle that we've had for about 20 years, and I love it.

With a chimney, it doesn't take very long (I'm thinking 15-20 minutes) for the thing to get ready, which is about how long it takes me to get the other stuff together.

And, since I smoke meat fairly often, the kettle is wonderful.

[eje]

I'm with Susan. I use a Weber with a chimney starter and Lazzari Mesquite Charcoal.

Will never go back to briquets and lighter fluid.

If I had a bunch of money and a little more space I would get this grill:

Bar-B-Chef Texas Charcoal Grill

http://www.bbqgalore.com/store/item.bbq?invky=5824202

If you have your heart set on Propane, the Weber Genesis Grills are generally well rated and easy to find.

added more information about link

Edited May 9, 2005 by eje (log)

[carswell]

You'll find an extended discussion of the grills here. For grilling, nothing beats lump charcoal. The advantages of propane are convenience, less mess and, if the barbecue comes with a side burner, the possibility of high-BTU stir-frying.

A longtime Weber user, I will not buy another one when my kettle dies (or maybe I should say "if," for the things are extremely well built). To quote myself in the earlier thread:

My issues with Weber grills are twofold. First, they're designed to be used with briquettes, and I strongly prefer charcoal or wood. This means, among other things, that the side baskets for indirect cooking are nearly useless. Second, and by far the bigger problem, the grill height is fixed. If you have too hot a fire going or are grillng a particularly flammable piece of meat (duck, say), you can't raise the grill. If your coals are dying and your meat has another ten minutes to go, you can't move the grill closer to the heat source. There are work-arounds, of course: in the first case, move the coals to the side and/or spray them with water from a plant mister (a great way to tame flare-ups); in the second case, finish the cooking in the oven.

By the way, Weber claims the fixed-height grill is a feature, not a bug, and prescribes adopting the unorthhodox approach of always keeping the lid on except when turning or basting: "Keep a lid on it! Your Weber grill was designed to cook foods with the lid down. Keeping the lid on allows heat to circulate, cooking food evenly and without flare-ups" (www.weber.com). I beg to differ. The Weber approach works fine for a thick steak. But I like to fuss over what's grilling, to see what's happening, to deal with flare-ups as soon as they occur. Also, I often grill things that require constant attention (bread, vegetables, seafood), and for those the Weber approach is impractical.

Am pleased to have since read that both Jeffrey Steingarten and David Rosengarten are of the same opinion.

Edited May 9, 2005 by carswell (log)

[jmbrightman]

the Weber Genesis Silver A or B are great propane grills - remarkably well crafted, cooking grates can be upgraded to stainless from the standard porcelain, and well suited to apartment balcony living in terms of size and convenience. They are closer to $400 - $500 than $200, but will last 10 years or more if maintained.

The only problem I had with my Weber kettle was the cooking time with charcoal is limited - if entertaining, and I wanted to do grilled peppers and other vegetables, then do ribeyes, the charcoal does not remain hot enough to cook everything properly.

[jglazer75]

You'll find an extended discussion of the grills here. For grilling, nothing beats lump charcoal. The advantages of propane are convenience, less mess and, if the barbecue comes with a side burner, the possibility of high-BTU stir-frying.

I had looked for a prior thread; but apparently didn't go far enough back or use the right search terms. Thanks for the direction.

Based on the preliminary comments, particularly about the chimneys I am beginning to reconsider my kettle-aversion.

[fiftydollars]

I wouldn’t discount the versatility of the gas grill. You also mention you want to use a rotisserie and even mid- to-lower-end gas barbecue models now feature a rotisserie.

I will admit that I have a charcoal grill that I use for most things, but I do like having the gas grill around. I especially like having it when I go somewhere or when tail-gating. Charcoal is just not practical for me when I am on the go. It takes hours for the charcoal to cool after cooking whereas the gas grill takes only 5-15 minutes after you turn it off to be cool to the touch.

Sure charcoal burns hotter and does not produce water as a by-product of combustion like gas, so I think it gives you a better steak and whatnot. But I think you seem to lean in the gas direction and you will probably be happier with a gas grill.

[Curlz]

the Weber Genesis Silver A or B are great propane grills - remarkably well crafted, cooking grates can be upgraded to stainless from the standard porcelain, and well suited to apartment balcony living in terms of size and convenience.  They are closer to $400 - $500 than $200, but will last 10 years or more if maintained.     

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One of my friends just asked me for some grill advice this weekend...she's in a condo with a very small (i.e. 6' x 8') patio, but was complaining that all of the grills she has seen at Home Depot, Target, Sears, etc. have huge shelves on the side(s) and/or burners. I see that the Weber Genesis has the same; are any of you aware of a gas grill (has to be for her condo to ok it) that isn't enormous and/or that doesn't have shelves on both sides? Any/all ideas are greatly appreciated...

[carswell]

Based on the preliminary comments, particularly about the chimneys I am beginning to reconsider my kettle-aversion.

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Chimneys are great and if anything they work better with lump charcoal than with briquettes. So, it's great to hear you're still open to the idea of a non-gas grill. That said, I'd strongly advise looking at something other than a kettle; I don't understand the Webermania that's rampant in North America these days. Also, before acquiring a charcoal burner, make sure you have ready access to a purveyor of charcoal and a place to store a couple of bags at home; if there's anything worse than running around town trying to find charcoal, it's discovering at the last minute that you don't have enough on hand to cook dinner.

[eje]

Grill to avoid:

Two of my friends/relatives were low on space and purchased Char-Broil Patio Gas Grills and were very unhappy with them for cooking. In addition, both of the grills died (not sure of details) within a year or two and they were unable to get replacement parts or warranty replacement from Char-Broil.

added information about Char-Broil grill problems.

Edited May 9, 2005 by eje (log)

[jglazer75]

... I'd strongly advise looking at something other than a kettle; I don't understand the Webermania that's rampant in North America these days.

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Any suggestions? Other than having something custom-made, which is not an option right now, are there any common retail brands you can recommend? Being in Illinois, it's kind of hard to find any competition to Weber around here.

Also, I seem to be getting the feeling that "Char-Broil" are simply not worth the (minimal) money. At all of the "big boxes" (Lowes, HD, etc) they seem to be the predominate low-price brand; is the general consensus that they aren't worth the money? Has anyone gotten a Char-Broil that they've been particularly happy with?

[jmcgrath]

That said, I'd strongly advise looking at something other than a kettle; I don't understand the Webermania that's rampant in North America these days.

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It's because that people who have them, love them. Weber set the standard of excellence for many years.

I've not found the lack of adjustable grill height to be a problem. I spread the coals out so that I have a nice thick coal bed at one end that tapers off into progressivly thinner layers. The down side of that is that it limits the amount of food you can cook at one time. You may need to cook in batches for a large party. My current kettle is a 22 1/2" One touch. A single lever controls all three intake vents at the same time.

Lump charcoal does take a toll on the one touch vent fins. They need to be replaced every three or four years. The good news is that they are not expensive, are available at some hardware and grill stores, and directly from Weber.

For a while, Weber offered a rotissery insert for the 22 1/2" kettle. I got one when they first came out and am glad I did. It was $100 well spent considering the amount of times I use it.

My other charcoal grill is an oval "Patio Classic". It is also of excellent construction. I bought it as a backup grill because I got an excellent price on it. I find I use both grills interchangebly. I can burn a hotter fire in the Weber bacause of a better venting mechanism, but I rarely need to do that.

Jim

[sgschef]

My husband is a purist who only believes in grilling with hard wood charcoal and has used a Weber for years. He is finally considering getting a gas grill-mostly because I want the ease when we get home at 7pm and need to feed the family quickly. He has done ribs, brisket, whole turkeys for years with the water and wood chips, etc. What recommendations do you have for brands/types of gas grills to buy? We are considering keeping the old broken down Weber in addition if necessary.

[Jason Perlow]

Weber Genesis with the optional stainless steel grates. Accept no substitutes. Get the one with the side burner, it comes in handy when you have outdoor parties and want to make corn on the cob, make bbq sauce, baked beans, etc.

They now have fancier, all stainless versions of the Genesis, as opposed to the ones with the black or blue porcelain paint job, but your standard $550 Genesis "Silver" C model is about all you will ever need. The fancier models just LOOK fancier, the burners arent any better.

http://www.weber.com/bbq/pub/grill/2005/gas/gg_gen_s.aspx

Sure, Viking, DCS and some of the other upper-end range companies make more expensive ones, but why bother?

Weber also has the "Summit" line with built in rotisseries and stuff. They are nice grills, but very pricey.

[woodburner]

For charcoal use, Hasty Bake units are very well built, and should last a lifetime, when cared for in a reasonable manner, but they may not suit your budget, or space requirements at the present time.

Weber also makes the 18 1/2" charcoal kettle which may fulfill your requirements at present, monetarily and space. It's most likely the least expensive way to go.

For starting lump charcoal, which many serious users perfer, purchase a stand alone propane turkey fryer burner, for starting your charcoal, using a chimney. Pretty much instant heat, and you should be able to grill a steak within 12-15 minutes tops.

18 1/2" weber grill and turkey fryer, should be under $200.00

woodburner

[robyn]

I've had my Weber for perhaps 7 years now. And it's amazing. I can cover it up for 2 months in the winter here in north Florida (when I don't like to grill). And when I go to start it - it starts. I have the porcelain (stainless steel isn't in Florida). And the porcelain grates - which I've replaced a few times (they do rust - perhaps I'll try a set of stainless next time). The side-burner issue is personal. Our grill is outside - the stove is in the kitchen - and we generally eat on the screened patio that is in the middle - so I don't generally need an outside burner. Although I sure wish I had one during last year's hurricane season (and will probably get one when I get a new Weber). Robyn

[rlibkind]

I've got a six-year-old Weber Silver B, which went through a 200-mile move since original purchase. It's a wonderful device and highly recommended just for the reasons you state: you want to grill, but you don't wait to deal with charcoal at 7 at night. I still have my Weber 22-inch kettle and use it for certain items (those I want to taste smokey; hickory or fruitwood chips on charcoal beats a smoke box on a gas grill by a country mile). But if I had to have just one, I'd go with the gas grill. It's also great for pizza since it can reach a temperature at least 100 degrees F higher than my kitchen oven. Just put a baking stone on a cold grill, then fire her up.

[jamiemaw]

What recommendations do you have for brands/types of gas grills to buy?  We are considering keeping the old broken down Weber in addition if necessary.

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Absolutely keep the venerable Weber for back-up. I did and I'm glad. I started in the food business as a grillman (well, grillboy, truth be known) in a steakhouse and prize the quality of my fire.

I've had both Weber Genesis and DCS barbecues. A close friend bought a Viking last week. The DCS is all-stainless, which is a real benefit as we live on the ocean.

But its real advantage is a very skookum rotisserie that can be confidently left unattended, although I wouldn't leave the prperty with it spinning. We've roasted 20 pound-plus beasts on it (the grills and main porcelain briquets are removed, the back tray banked up and a drip tray placed beneath the roast). I wouldn't bother buying a barbecue without a rotisserie, and a sideburner can be very handy.

There are several other important considerations: the quality of calibration and separation of heat (i.e being able to cook 'low and slow') for real barbecue, and the newer infrared backburner technology for rotisseries. A 30-inch Viking, which incorporates all of these features, is about $3,000 with a sideburner; a 30" DCS runs about the same. The best time to buy them is typically at the end of September or just before Easter when the model year changes.

My experience is that the more you spend, the more even the heat and better its control. Inexpensive barbecues can have hot and cool areas, which are manageable when you get used to them. Another factor is the longevity of the ignition device and the Venturi tubes; again, typically the more you pay, the longer they'll both last. I also find that my $7 investment in a chip box pays smokey dividends. Lastly, our barbecue is plumbed into the house with natural gas, which runs a little cooler than propane but is hugely convenient.

My DCS is now 10 years old and with regular maintenance, runs like a top. It's not as feature-laden as the newer models (it cost about $1,000 at that time) but has served thousands.

Another brand that I would consider is called Capital--beautifully built and a pleasure to use. I have my eye on one for the cottage, about the size that requires a trailer hitch.

Good luck,

Jamie

Edited May 10, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[JohnN]

We just purchased a Napoleon PT308RB (Prestige II) grill this weekend after our old, twice hand-me-down, grill disinegrated. I wanted a decent grill, but didn't want to pay the frieght for the mega-fancy grills. We live in a wet, cool climate, so I wanted something durable.

Here is what I gathered from reading reviews (somewhat subjective):

1) Solid, cast burners, typically brass or stainless tend to be best. If you get "tube" burners, heavy duty stainless are better. More burner coverage is better for even heating.

2) Heavy stainless or coated cast iron grates are better (specifically which one is probably a matter of priorities). Solid is better.

3) Stainless or ceramic "sear plates" (drip guards in my view) are better. However, I also gather than you don't want the drippings to just run off, you want them to vaporize to add flavor. You also want them to cover the burner so the drippings can't reach.

4) Not all "stainless" grills are fully stainless. One here locally at Lowe's in particular looked really good, but I read that it used low quality stainless that was prone to rusting and that all the fasteners rusted. In addition, it wasn't waterproof and rain killed the guy's ignition system.

The grill I got is fairly small (and semi inexpensive), but has all stainless interior parts. Heavy duty stainless grates, stainless sear plates, stainless tube burners (slight compromise). The sear plate design is supposed to vaporize the drippings instead of just deflecting them. It has a rotisserie (wife's request). I've used it a couple times now and so far I'm happy and think the money spent went into the right place (internal components, not exterior looks). The grill set me back $760 before tax, but I was able to walk out of a local store with one. Oh, and they took my completely dead old grill free of charge. :-)

Originally I was looking at a Ducane 436. It looks like a very good grill for the price and they have a special setup for the sear plates to trap drippings so they can vaporize. I've seen it for as low as $300 (amazon.com), but it would be about $100 for shipping! And I'd have to pay tax too! I wasn't able to fine one locally. It appears that most people other than big chains don't want to carry low end grills. And the chains seem to get re-branded or off-branded items.

The grill I really wanted was a Firemagic, but the best price I could find on a (small, basic) one was a bit under $2000. It's obviously in a different class and they have two burners for each control/zone for more even heating.

I found the reviews at bbq.about.com to be helpful.

Good luck!

-john

Edited May 10, 2005 by JohnN (log)

[ronnie_suburban]

I don't use my gas grill much anymore but I have a Weber Genesis Silver B -- which I "inherited" when I bought my current house -- and it is very nice; it gets up to temp fast and throws a lot of heat (36k BTU, IIRC).

The last time I purchased a gas grill it was a Ducane and I was really happy with it. I forgot to exclude it and had to leave it for the buyer of my previous home, otherwise I'd still own it. The Ducanes run about the same as the Webers in price but at the time I purchased mine, it produced more BTU than the Weber which was equivalent in price. The cast aluminum design of Ducane definitely has its advantages too. It's extremely durable and cools off very fast. No paint also means no flaking, etc. Ducane handles are located on the sides of the lid so you don't have to lean over the burners to open them. I don't think the same is true of the Webers.

And whatever you do, don't get rid of that old charcoal weber, you'll want to have it around for those times when you have the time to use it or are entertaining a larger group. FWIW, I've refined my routine with my Weber charcoal grill and can be cooking about 15 minutes after I light my chimney -- not a lot longer than it takes to get that Genesis up to temperature. Of course, there are some clean-up and maintenance tasks with a charcoal grill which also require some additional time.

=R=

[Okbrewer]

Be sure to also look at Vermont Castings' grills! http://www.myownbbq.com/about/products/pro....php?category=1

I've had mine for about 4 years now and think it is great (grate!?)! And the new models are supposed to be even better! Mine has a rotisserie element as well as an oven element! I also have the optional side burner. I use my VC grill year round and have never had a bit of trouble with it. Home Depot is now selling the lower ended VC grills which are still a step up from many of the other brands.

I am also a proponent of SmokinTex electric smokers! (www.smokintex.com) Purists would say that it ain't really smokin'. but once you taste the end products you'll be convinced otherwise. I did a brisket this past weekend and it was awsome, as usual. The neat thing about the SmokinTex is you don't have to tend it. Just load some wood chips to the box, put the meat on the shelves, shut the door, plug it in and then turn the thermostat to the desired cooking temp. and let it be! My brisket cooked at 180F for 14 hours. Put it in the smoker before going to bed on Saturday and it was ready to eat after I got home from church on Sunday. I am very pleased with both these products!

[daniellewiley]

We have always been staunch charcoal grill advocates, but were tiring of the wait, even though it's pretty darn quick with a chimney. However, when my husband exploded out a chunk of concrete from our driveway with the chimney two years ago, I decided to surprise him for Father's Day with this: The Weber Performer

It's a charcoal grill with a gas ignition. We love it. The charcoal heats up incredibly fast, and we still get all of the flavor of real hardwood.

Feel free to PM with any questions.

[ronnie_suburban]

We have always been staunch charcoal grill advocates, but were tiring of the wait, even though it's pretty darn quick with a chimney. However, when my husband exploded out a chunk of concrete from our driveway with the chimney two years ago, I decided to surprise him for Father's Day with this: The Weber Performer

It's a charcoal grill with a gas ignition. We love it. The charcoal heats up incredibly fast, and we still get all of the flavor of real hardwood.

Feel free to PM with any questions.

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Yes, I have the Performer One-Touch and it's excellent. I still use the chimney -- which I prefer for over the provided baskets -- for fast-grilling. Using the chimney and hardwood lump charcoal, I'm usually cooking 10-15 minutes after ignition.

Also, fwiw, the baskets that come with the Performers are excellent for slow cooking -- especially in combination with the hinged grill -- as they allow for easy refueling during cooking.

=R=

[francois]

I recently purchased a Napoleon Prestige II (450). Very very nice.

I kept the old Weber charcoal grill, it is less convenient than gas but I still love it!

[jayt90]

I've used charcoal for years, and have found only one or two reasons to add a gas grill: Easy low temp operation; but forget about comparisons at high temps, because charcoal is or can be, much hotter.

And the rotisserie : Hard to adapt to high temp charcoal broiling.

That said, I'm still using the Weber, and the barrel type charcoalers, and putting off the gas purchase.

[Chris Amirault]

Ditto all that, jayt90. I just boned and grilled a leg of lamb tonight using real hardwood charcoal on my Char-Broil faux Weber kettle, bought at Home Despot on super reduction last summer. It was fantastic -- and I have to say that it would have been mediocre on a cooler, non-charcoal gas grill.

But: those Weber performers sound dandy.....