Was I wrong to not order anything?

[Carrot Top]

All through this thread I keep wondering if maybe there wasn't some sort of underlying dynamic between MIL and DIL in the first place, a discomfort based on something or a history of power plays . . . that did, finally, come out in this example of ordering food or *not* ordering food.

Not that I ever had that problem. I got along excellently with both my MIL's. It was their sons that eventually I could not stand.

[K8memphis]

...Next time, MargyB, head south another 45 minutes and eat at La Roca in Nogales.  Get the chicken mole.

Invite the 'rents to come with you, your treat.

←

I think the only safe way out of this is to treat them at the same place to dinner. And just try to laugh it off otherwise. 'Oh gosh, I just wasn't hungry.' and/or 'Nothing looked enticing to me that day'. 'No appetite, whadayah gonna do?'. Say, 'I was having tummy trouble.' Say/do something if you ever want this to go away.

Edited to say: One upping them will seal the cement your feet are setting in right now. All they need to do then is find six feet of water somewhere.

Edited March 1, 2007 by K8memphis (log)

[ludja]

When I go home there is a plethora of great cooking from my Mom and nice trips to New England pizzerias, home-style Polish restaurants, etc. My "challenge" comes when my Dad wants to go to his favorite Chinese restaurant that he really loves! Now, he *has* enjoyed great Chinese food on visits out West, but this is the best Chinese restaurant he's found at home. I just grin and bear it if I can't change our plans by saying I've just been dying for pierogi's and blintzes or East coast pizza that I can't easily get where I live now...

The funny twist is that my Mom isn't as big a fan of Chinese food while he knows that I am. So, he particularly lobbies for going to this restaurant when I'm home! His palpable enjoyment is a small price to pay and ends up turning a "so-so" food experience into a great meal with my father.

Edited March 1, 2007 by ludja (log)

[I_call_the_duck]

Three examples:

My entire family was at my sister’s house for lunch, and for some reason for another my brother-in-law neglected to pour a cup of tea for my dad. Growing up in a Chinese household, I was taught to pour tea for my elders. BIL is not Chinese, but he and my sister had been married long enough by that time for him to have known. My dad was furious, and from that day on until he died, my dad kept saying how he hated SIL, citing that particular event. (A little melodramatic maybe, but he found it to be a personal insult.)

My brother brought his girlfriend home to meet the family. My parents prepared a great meal, but when girlfriend (who is not Chinese) sat at the table, she flat out stated that she did not eat Chinese food. Not only that, she want on to proudly state the (incredibly long) list of foods she did not eat, many of which were on the table. I think all she had was white rice that night. My parents were not happy, and during the my brother and she were together had to bend over backwards to please her, grumbling all the while.

My friend invited me and another friend to his parent’s house for dinner before we went to a baseball game. His mother cooked a delicious Turkish meal, which included an eggplant stew. Back then, I was not a big fan of eggplant, but I ate since it was the polite thing to do. Not only did I love it, I’m still trying to get the recipe from her. Twenty years later, he tells me that his mother still talks about that night, how nice we were, and what a great time she had.

Yes, I think you were rude. This is something that your in-laws will remember for a long, long time. Not only that, what's going to happen the next time you visit them? You're setting yourself and them up for a very uncomfortable situation. Everybody has different tastes and styles of food, and there will be many situations when you go out with friends or relatives that don’t share your taste. Particularly in family situations if you want to keep peace, you should have just sucked it up and ordered something — anything.

[Busboy]

Ever the champion of the underdog, I'm going to side with you on this one.  I don't find it unusual at all to go to a restaurant and not find anything that 'grabs' me on the menu.  I would order a cup of tea or a glass of wine if it were an option, and just enjoy the conversation.  If you don't want to eat anything, why does ordering food, not eating it and wasting it seem more polite?  Plus you are risking having the server ask if there is something wrong with your food and then what do you say?  "No, I didn't want it anyway but ordered it to be polite?"  And some places would then remove it from the bill, thinking there was something wrong, so you've added to their waste and overhead.

I've been in a bunch of situations with co-workers, too, where they'll settle on the lowest common denominator trying to please everyone.  If I go along and have some tea and visit with them, celebrating whatever it is we're celebrating, that's the whole point.  Why on earth would I order food and not touch it?  If it were an event honoring me and I got to pick the restaurant, and I decided on somewhere that served [what to them was] bizarre food, do you think they would order something "just to be polite"?  "Aw, here, just try a bite of my ____ - a little won't hurt you!"  Wouldn't happen, so why should I pretend order at a plastic food place.  And before you think I'm snobby or feel sorry for my poor co-workers, they are the same people who carry on and on whenever a guest-worker from another country dares to microwave something that smells "weird" to them to the point of embarrassing the poor guy enough that he feels uncomfortable bringing lunch to the office.  It's happened many, many times.

←

You miss the point. One is not only obligated to order. One is obligated to eat it. And one is obligated to pretend to like it. Why? Because it's not all about oneself.

Now, the Miss Manners in me (I once waited on Miss Manners -- not the priss some might think) differentiates between being dragged to an office function and taking an inimate meal with friends or relatives. You can "yuck," and they can call you a snob and you can all yuck it up an toast Joe's retirement or whatever. No harm, no foul. But the fact that they are boorish concerning your taste or the microwaved scent of Indian Food does not does not liberate you to be boorish yourself in a smaller setting.

If you ask one of my kids what the "Sweeney Family Motto" is, they will reply "suck it up." I've seen them eat food with a smile on their lips at someone else's house that they would rather have driven a fork through their hand if I served it to them at home (I do it, too) and I was pleased that they thought enough of their hosts feelings to do so. Sometimes that's what you gotta do. It's a mitzvah, and it makes people happy which almost always good.

[Kim Shook]

If you ask one of my kids what the "Sweeney Family Motto" is, they will reply "suck it up." 

←

Best. family. motto. ever. I am so stealing this.

[Carolyn Tillie]

I have to add that my boyfriend is quite similar to you except that instead of being too picky, he simply is never that hungry or prefers to eat at very odd hours (2:00 a.m. and the like). At first it pissed me off that he was never hungry when we would go out to restaurants with friends, and now we simply have an agreement that he orders something that I might like as a leftover, pushes it around his plate to appear as though he is participating, and then we have it wrapped up to go for dining later. It never goes to waste and we are never shown as looking odd for him sitting there without a plate of something in front on him.

[Gastro888]

...My entire family was at my sister’s house for lunch, and for some reason for another my brother-in-law neglected to pour a cup of tea for my dad.  Growing up in a Chinese household, I was taught to pour tea for my elders.  BIL is not Chinese, but he and my sister had been married long enough by that time for him to have known.  My dad was furious, and from that day on until he died, my dad kept saying how he hated SIL, citing that particular event.  (A little melodramatic maybe, but he found it to be a personal insult.)

My brother brought his girlfriend home to meet the family.  My parents prepared a great meal, but when girlfriend (who is not Chinese) sat at the table, she flat out stated that she did not eat Chinese food.  Not only that, she want on to proudly state the (incredibly long) list of foods she did not eat, many of which were on the table.  I think all she had was white rice that night.  My parents were not happy, and during the my brother and she were together had to bend over backwards to please her, grumbling all the while.

...

←

Holy crap! I can't believe that happened! Wow. Those would be serious offenses in my family. I am surprised at such behavior. Especially at the girlfriend's. What the hell - you're dating a Chinese person, what makes you think they don't eat Chinese food?

[Carrot Top]

Personally I am for the idea of qualified rudeness when the situation warrants it.

Some situations do.

And then, it is a beautiful thing.

[Jaymes]

...Next time, MargyB, head south another 45 minutes and eat at La Roca in Nogales.  Get the chicken mole.

Invite the 'rents to come with you, your treat.

←

I think the only safe way out of this is to treat them at the same place to dinner. And just try to laugh it off otherwise. 'Oh gosh, I just wasn't hungry.' and/or 'Nothing looked enticing to me that day'. 'No appetite, whadayah gonna do?'. Say, 'I was having tummy trouble.' Say/do something if you ever want this to go away.

Edited to say: One upping them will seal the cement your feet are setting in right now. All they need to do then is find six feet of water somewhere.

Oooh...didn't mean to suggest "one-upping them."

In fact, I'd apologize to them and try to make light of it, just as you suggest (a gesture which I'm sure her husband would particularly appreciate). And THEN I'd head south to Nogales.

Several people have equated this one instance with dining out with friends, co-workers and peers. This one instance is, to me, completely different. Not only were these people her husband's parents, it's clear that they don't see them regularly, so it's not like this is a continuing problem. MargyB and her husband obviously were visiting from out of town (hence her misspelling of Tucson), so how hard could it have been to "make nice" on this one visit?

Also, she says that they were visiting a "retirement community." Restaurants in retirement communities have to cater to an elderly clientele that often has various dietary requirements that necessitate blander menus. My own father, now 86, has probably eaten a meal in every country on the planet. He used to love "gourmet" food. Now he's reduced to a bland, low-salt, low-sugar diet.

Is the Senior Citizen Early-Bird Special at Golden Corral my favorite dining experience?

Uh, no.

But the day my father is no longer available for me to take him there, will be a sad day for me, indeed.

In fact, so sad that I can barely manage to contemplate it.

Edited March 1, 2007 by Jaymes (log)

[menon1971]

Three examples:

My entire family was at my sister’s house for lunch, and for some reason for another my brother-in-law neglected to pour a cup of tea for my dad.  Growing up in a Chinese household, I was taught to pour tea for my elders.  BIL is not Chinese, but he and my sister had been married long enough by that time for him to have known.  My dad was furious, and from that day on until he died, my dad kept saying how he hated SIL, citing that particular event.  (A little melodramatic maybe, but he found it to be a personal insult.)

My brother brought his girlfriend home to meet the family.  My parents prepared a great meal, but when girlfriend (who is not Chinese) sat at the table, she flat out stated that she did not eat Chinese food.  Not only that, she want on to proudly state the (incredibly long) list of foods she did not eat, many of which were on the table.  I think all she had was white rice that night.  My parents were not happy, and during the my brother and she were together had to bend over backwards to please her, grumbling all the while.

My friend invited me and another friend to his parent’s house for dinner before we went to a baseball game.  His mother cooked a delicious Turkish meal, which included an eggplant stew.  Back then, I was not a big fan of eggplant, but I ate since it was the polite thing to do.  Not only did I love it, I’m still trying to get the recipe from her.  Twenty years later, he tells me that his mother still talks about that night, how nice we were, and what a great time she had.

Yes, I think you were rude.  This is something that your in-laws will remember for a long, long time.  Not only that, what's going to happen the next time you visit them?  You're setting yourself and them up for a very uncomfortable situation.  Everybody has different tastes and styles of food, and there will be many situations when you go out with friends or relatives that don’t share your taste.  Particularly in family situations if you want to keep peace, you should have just sucked it up and ordered something — anything.

←

How do you feel about your father's ire?

[Busboy]

If you ask one of my kids what the "Sweeney Family Motto" is, they will reply "suck it up." 

←

Best. family. motto. ever. I am so stealing this.

←

Go for it. But if you're ever over and you don't like what I'm serving....

[Genny]

See in situations like this, I have to ask myself: WWBD? Well, I says to myself: "Self, What Would Bourdain Do?" And after about a milisecond of thought I reply to myself, "If Bourdain can eat half cooked still shitty warthog anus to be polite and a gracious guest, I can eat a sub par soup or salad to be a polite and gracious guest."

PS Busboy: I agree the best family motto evah! I tell my niece "suck it up buttercup!", yah know, to add a little sugar to it.

Edited March 1, 2007 by Genny (log)

[menon1971]

Just for the sake of argument, why is it rude to refuse food on the one hand, but not rude to force food upon people, by not consulting your guests on the restaurant choice, for instance.

[hjshorter]

Barring a physical reason, not accepting somebody's hospitality is saying that it -- and by extension, they -- are not good enough for you.  If that's not what you mean to say, choke down a few bites.

Exactly. It would be mortifying to think that my family or friends would ever hesitate to take me somewhere, lest it be beneath me, or not "gourmet" enough.

This is why God created the club sandwich. Regardless of what kind of restaurant it is, if it has a club sandwich on the menu, then there will be something that I am willing to take a few bites of in order not to look ill-mannered.

Edited March 1, 2007 by hjshorter (log)

[petite tête de chou]

I'm interested in the opinions of the board. I was visiting my in-laws with my husband and the 4 of us went out to lunch at an "Arizona Family Restaurant" in a senior community south of Tuscon. The menu consisted of very standard sandwiches, breakfast all day, hamburgers and a few salads. As I've gotten older and more "into" food, I've found that I have become more selective as to what foods I will or will not eat. There wasn't anything on the menu that appealed to me....I really did try to find something!  I did ask if I could order 1/2 of a cobb salad (although the picture did NOT look appetizing) and was told no. So....I chose not to order anything.

My mother-in-law made it pretty clear that my not ordering anything was not acceptable and that there were "plenty of things" to choose from on the menu.

So was I wrong? When you're with a group at a restaurant that doesn't have food choices you like, do you order something you don't want just to be polite?

Thanks,

Margy

←

Were you wrong? You might be. If you declined to order something in that *specific* situation (casual restaurant with an in-law/family) believing that there wouldn't be negative consequences you were wrong. Stick with your choice but anticipate the fall out.

On a personal level, I do not feel you were wrong in declining to order. I will not have *anyone* dictate my behaviour concerning food (or much else, for that matter). But I expect the stares, rude comments and name-calling (such as snob). Bring it.

[Gastro888]

Three examples:

My entire family was at my sister’s house for lunch, and for some reason for another my brother-in-law neglected to pour a cup of tea for my dad.  Growing up in a Chinese household, I was taught to pour tea for my elders.  BIL is not Chinese, but he and my sister had been married long enough by that time for him to have known.  My dad was furious, and from that day on until he died, my dad kept saying how he hated SIL, citing that particular event.  (A little melodramatic maybe, but he found it to be a personal insult.)

My brother brought his girlfriend home to meet the family.  My parents prepared a great meal, but when girlfriend (who is not Chinese) sat at the table, she flat out stated that she did not eat Chinese food.  Not only that, she want on to proudly state the (incredibly long) list of foods she did not eat, many of which were on the table.  I think all she had was white rice that night.  My parents were not happy, and during the my brother and she were together had to bend over backwards to please her, grumbling all the while.

My friend invited me and another friend to his parent’s house for dinner before we went to a baseball game.  His mother cooked a delicious Turkish meal, which included an eggplant stew.  Back then, I was not a big fan of eggplant, but I ate since it was the polite thing to do.  Not only did I love it, I’m still trying to get the recipe from her.  Twenty years later, he tells me that his mother still talks about that night, how nice we were, and what a great time she had.

Yes, I think you were rude.   This is something that your in-laws will remember for a long, long time.  Not only that, what's going to happen the next time you visit them?  You're setting yourself and them up for a very uncomfortable situation.  Everybody has different tastes and styles of food, and there will be many situations when you go out with friends or relatives that don’t share your taste.  Particularly in family situations if you want to keep peace, you should have just sucked it up and ordered something — anything.

←

How do you feel about your father's ire?

←

Just my two cents:

I can understand why he was (if albeit melodramatically) furious at the SIL. It would be incredibly disrespectful not to serve the head of the family tea if you're serving everyone else. Sounds trite but that's how the Chinese culture is and how deep the traditions run. He definitely should've known better.

ETA: Sorry if I sound a little preachy, I apologize. I could imagine it wasn't a pleasant situation for anyone involved but I can see where the father was coming from and that it could've been an innocent mistake on behalf of the SIL.

Edited March 1, 2007 by Gastro888 (log)

[CaliPoutine]

Wow, I think you're all being really hard on the topic starter.

I don't drink and ppl are always trying to push booze on me. I also don't eat red meat and whenever I go to a BBQ, its the same, someone will say " eat a hotdog", its not red meat. Am I rude?

Everyone is entitled to turn down food if they don't feel comfortable eating it. When I first moved to rural Ontario, my gf( at the time, now my spouse) would take me to places where I found nothing acceptable to my palate. I'd rather eat nothing than eat crap food.

[racheld]

I've been told pretty much point-blank in Mongolia that if I value my skin I'd better eat that piece of white stuff, regardless of whether it's hard enough to stone bears with or not.

←

In case I ever get to Mongolia, what IS the tooth-breaking white stuff?

[Jaymes]

This is why God created the club sandwich.

[Jaymes]

Wow, I think you're all being really hard on the topic starter. 

I don't drink and ppl are always trying to push booze on me.  I also don't eat red meat and whenever I go to a BBQ, its the same, someone will say " eat a hotdog", its not red meat.  Am I rude? 

Everyone is entitled to turn down food if they don't feel comfortable eating it.  When I first moved to rural Ontario, my gf( at the time, now my spouse) would take me to places where I found nothing acceptable to my palate.  I'd rather eat nothing than eat crap food.

But she WAS willing to eat "half a Cobb salad" if they had been willing to prepare one especially for her.

Are you willing to drink half a glass of wine? Or eat half a rack of ribs? Or half a hot dog? I mean, if the host was willing to prepare a special one, just for you?

Or do you usually just help yourself to the potato salad or cole slaw or fruit or something else they have to offer in order to be a gracious guest.

I don't think it's the same thing at all.

I think there's more going on here than that.

Edited March 1, 2007 by Jaymes (log)

[moosnsqrl]

Wow, I think you're all being really hard on the topic starter. 

I don't drink and ppl are always trying to push booze on me.  I also don't eat red meat and whenever I go to a BBQ, its the same, someone will say " eat a hotdog", its not red meat.  Am I rude? 

Everyone is entitled to turn down food if they don't feel comfortable eating it.  When I first moved to rural Ontario, my gf( at the time, now my spouse) would take me to places where I found nothing acceptable to my palate.  I'd rather eat nothing than eat crap food.

←

I totally agree. It is ruder to foist unwanted food or drink upon someone - whatever the reason. For god's sake, I know people who would practically hurl if asked to eat a tomato! It may sound odd to you or I but it's no less valid for them.

I don't as a rule care for sweets and it really puts me off to have someone yammer away about how 'one tiny bite' won't hurt me. No, thank you, I don't care for any. That is not rude. Insisting that someone eat something they have politely declined, however, is. And the argument that you eat something to be polite or to make someone else feel better is quite often the root cause of any of a variety of eating disorders.

[I_call_the_duck]

My entire family was at my sister’s house for lunch, and for some reason for another my brother-in-law neglected to pour a cup of tea for my dad.  Growing up in a Chinese household, I was taught to pour tea for my elders.  BIL is not Chinese, but he and my sister had been married long enough by that time for him to have known.  My dad was furious, and from that day on until he died, my dad kept saying how he hated SIL, citing that particular event.  (A little melodramatic maybe, but he found it to be a personal insult.)

←

How do you feel about your father's ire?

←

When the incident first occurred I felt he overreacted. (I didn't witness the incident myself, so I don't know what really happened.) Although BIL did pour him tea since, Dad never forgot the first transgression. Dad was very, very traditional, and as someone who grew up very Americanized, I didn't understand until I got older. When I started appreciating my heritage more, I realized how important being respected was to him. So I can see how he felt that the act, or lack thereof, was disrespectful to him. I do think he carried his anger too far, but I can understand it more now.

Gastro, I don’t know what my brother was thinking when he started dating that girl (well, maybe I do ). But I’m sure that Dad didn’t pitch a fit when that happened was because he was dating Only Son.

What that incident did teach me how important it was to inform my (non-Chinese) boyfriends of proper behavior.

[hjshorter]

I don't as a rule care for sweets and it really puts me off to have someone yammer away about how 'one tiny bite' won't hurt me.  No, thank you, I don't care for any.  That is not rude.  Insisting that someone eat something they have politely declined, however, is.  And the argument that you eat something to be polite or to make someone else feel better is quite often the root cause of any of a variety of eating disorders.

←

That's not what this is about. This is what the OP said:

As I've gotten older and more "into" food, I've found that I have become more selective as to what foods I will or will not eat. There wasn't anything on the menu that appealed to me.

And apparently she let her MIL know that the restaurant wasn't acceptable, based on her MIL's reported response.

What I don't understand is, why was half a specially-ordered Cobb salad OK, but a whole Cobb salad was out of the question?

Edited March 1, 2007 by hjshorter (log)

[menon1971]

My entire family was at my sister’s house for lunch, and for some reason for another my brother-in-law neglected to pour a cup of tea for my dad.  Growing up in a Chinese household, I was taught to pour tea for my elders.  BIL is not Chinese, but he and my sister had been married long enough by that time for him to have known.  My dad was furious, and from that day on until he died, my dad kept saying how he hated SIL, citing that particular event.  (A little melodramatic maybe, but he found it to be a personal insult.)

←

How do you feel about your father's ire?

←

When the incident first occurred I felt he overreacted. (I didn't witness the incident myself, so I don't know what really happened.) Although BIL did pour him tea since, Dad never forgot the first transgression. Dad was very, very traditional, and as someone who grew up very Americanized, I didn't understand until I got older. When I started appreciating my heritage more, I realized how important being respected was to him. So I can see how he felt that the act, or lack thereof, was disrespectful to him. I do think he carried his anger too far, but I can understand it more now.

Gastro, I don’t know what my brother was thinking when he started dating that girl (well, maybe I do ). But I’m sure that Dad didn’t pitch a fit when that happened was because he was dating Only Son.

What that incident did teach me how important it was to inform my (non-Chinese) boyfriends of proper behavior.

←

One the one hand I feel that one should obey the traditions of the home in which one finds him or herself out of general respect, on the other I respectfully ask why those outside of a given tradition have to acquiesce. Is that expectation not a bit rude, especially if it contradicts the other's beliefs, concerning patriarchy, for instance. I guess I am conflicted: respect for another's culture v. personal freedom and conviction.