The Sourdough Starter Topic

[Smithy]

No sourdough pancakes yet, but I baked another loaf yesterday and I am *jazzed* about it.

I've been feeding the starter daily, and I think it's a bit more active and uniformly bubbly than before. Maybe this is what Mick means by 'stable'?

I began the loaf earlier in the morning and lost count of the 'knead 10 times' steps; instead of 3, I may have given it 4 or 5. It still tended to stick a lot, at first; I floured the counter some and my hands a lot. It had at least 4 hours to ferment after that, and probably more than 4 in its proofing basket.

I remember being at a bread-baking class one time and watching the teacher handle the dough. She patted and handled it almost constantly as she spoke, in the way that one might handle a small, beloved kitten. She spoke of the dough feeling alive. This dough felt like that when I shaped it. Alive.

I didn't add steam. I lowered the oven temperature to 390F from the previous 410F, and - this is the most important part, I think - used an instant-read thermometer. The bread looked and felt right from thumping it after about 55 minutes, but the thermometer said the interior was 94 or 95C. I put it back in for another 10 minutes, and got 97C. Bingo.

Look at that color! Look at that crumb! The flavor was darned good, too. My young guests, who are about to become the housesitters for the winter, declared it 'awesome'! It was. :-)

This loaf was bigger than the first, using the same ingredients. It also isn't quite as sour, which is a good thing (the first loaf was almost too sour.) I think the size of the loaf is due to the extra rise time I gave it. Would that also affect the flavor, or is it a function of the starter's maturity? I think it may smell a bit more mellow than it did a couple of days ago.

[ElsieD]

That loaf is a thing of beauty. What do you use to slash the dough?

[Smithy]

That loaf is a thing of beauty. What do you use to slash the dough?

 

My serrated bread knife.  

[Anna N]

I have been following along both this topic and Mick's topic from France. And I have been attempting to get my own starter going. I began my attempts while I was still up north but was never able to get a vigorous starter. I have been trying since I got home with even less success. After a few days I get this

I hope you can see it. It is black mold. My containers go through the dishwasher on the sanitize cycle. My flour is a recognized brand and was very recently purchased. I use filtered water from my refrigerator. I am careful to use only clean utensils when I am feeding my starter. I have tried with both rye and all purpose. The results are the same. After a couple of days mold appears. Ideas?

[pbear]

Anna, just to confirm, yes, that's unusual.  By contrast, I've done something like eighteen starters in the past two months (playing with different parameters) and haven't been mold-struck even once.

 

As for solutions, it's hard to say without knowing in detail what you're doing.  Are you using the same container for each starter or do you transfer to a clean one at least periodically?  For comparison, I use the same container for the first few days, then transfer to a clean one each time I prune back and rebuild.  Second, how are you covering the starter?  Maybe mold is getting in that way.  For comparison, I work in canning jars and use plastic storage caps screwed down and then backed off only slightly to vent.

 

To be clear, not trying to say my way is the only one or the best.  Just thinking out loud.  And it could be you're dealing with a nasty environmental contamination and nothing you do within reason will make a difference.  In which regard, did you have the mold problem up north or only at home?

[Anna N]

Anna, just to confirm, yes, that's unusual.  By contrast, I've done something like eighteen starters in the past two months (playing with different parameters) and haven't been mold-struck even once.

 

As for solutions, it's hard to say without knowing in detail what you're doing.  Are you using the same container for each starter or do you transfer to a clean one at least periodically?  For comparison, I use the same container for the first few days, then transfer to a clean one each time I prune back and rebuild.  Second, how are you covering the starter?  Maybe mold is getting in that way.  For comparison, I work in canning jars and use plastic storage caps screwed down and then backed off only slightly to vent.

 

To be clear, not trying to say my way is the only one or the best.  Just thinking out loud.  And it could be you're dealing with a nasty environmental contamination and nothing you do within reason will make a difference.  In which regard, did you have the mold problem up north or only at home?

I have tried changing containers daily. I have tried changing them once I felt I was getting somewhere. I am using Cambro containers with very, very tightfitting lids. The containers are new within the last six months. I did not see mold up north. But mold is not an issue in my home normally. Thanks for your interest.

[Smithy]

It wouldn't account for the source of the mold, but I wonder if you can discourage it by adding a bit of yogurt whey to boost the lactobacillus?

[Anna N]

It wouldn't account for the source of the mold, but I wonder if you can discourage it by adding a bit of yogurt whey to boost the lactobacillus?

I am trying hard to put my faith in Mick's contention that this is easy and requires nothing more than flour and water. If he can run a bakery without faffing around with his starter then I ought to be able to make a loaf of bread! But thank you for the suggestion.

[Kerry Beal]

So the only constant is the flour - perhaps the bag is contaminated with mold spores.

[cakewalk]

I have tried changing containers daily. I have tried changing them once I felt I was getting somewhere. I am using Cambro containers with very, very tightfitting lids. The containers are new within the last six months. I did not see mold up north. But mold is not an issue in my home normally. Thanks for your interest.

I'm wondering about those tightfitting lids. It needs air. It doesn't seem that anything else is amiss here, you're doing everything right. Not sure if it's the lids, it's just that I don't see a problem with any of the rest of it. I usually cover my starters loosely with saran wrap. Sometimes I'll just put a paper towel over them. Try covering them loosely and see if that makes a difference.

[Anna N]

So the only constant is the flour - perhaps the bag is contaminated with mold spores.

Nope. Rye and all purpose.

[weinoo]

I like Kerry's thinking.

 

But since you don't believe it's the flour, maybe it's the filtered water from your fridge.  Try a bottle of spring water and see what happens.

Edited October 30, 2014 by weinoo (log)

[weinoo]

Here's a resuscitated starter that I found in the back of the fridge. It's a few years old, and hasn't been touched since last fall - iow, since pre Steam-Girl. It had all sorts of weird looking stuff happening, but I dumped 99.9% of it and a few days later, bang...

 

 

 

[Chelseabun]

This is my second attempt.  I started it with Rye but have been feeding it with white flour.  It is now on day nine and is a relatively lively starter.  I will be baking with this in the next few days!

 

[ElsieD]

So here is a picture of Jayme's Sourdough Fruitcake. In the interests of this thread, I made a small loaf along with the two regular loaves so I could immediately try some. It is delicious, a keeper of a recipe for sure. Some of the candied fruit I used doesn't show up in the picture very well, (citron, pineapple) so it is actually fruitier than it looks. Can't decide whether I should next make more bread or to try pizza. Choices, choices!

[Jaymes]

So pretty. Thinking back to sourdough fruitcake and pancakes with just-picked wild blueberries sure does make me miss Alaska.

Thanks for the photo. If I were only right next door...

[Jaymes]

Can't decide whether I should next make more bread or to try pizza.

Or waffles.

Sourdough waffles are truly fabulous.

[bethesdabakers]

All this excitement is getting overwhelming!

 

Meanwhile Anna' stuck.  Anna, you say the mould forms after a few days. Have you tried going beyond this stage? I did a quick run around the net and there is a suggestion that starters build up their resistance to mould as the bacteria develops in the mixture so they are more vulnerable to attack in the early days. There's also a suggestion that mould tends to form on the sides of the container so they should be scraped down or wiped clean. I agree that tight fitting lids are not a good idea. Try scraping the top off the starter and from the remainder take about 50g and refresh it with 100g water and 100g flour and start again in a fresh container where the allows lid allows for a bit of air flow. Then persevere for a few days and see what happens.

[Anna N]

All this excitement is getting overwhelming!

 

Meanwhile Anna' stuck.  Anna, you say the mould forms after a few days. Have you tried going beyond this stage? I did a quick run around the net and there is a suggestion that starters build up their resistance to mould as the bacteria develops in the mixture so they are more vulnerable to attack in the early days. There's also a suggestion that mould tends to form on the sides of the container so they should be scraped down or wiped clean. I agree that tight fitting lids are not a good idea. Try scraping the top off the starter and from the remainder take about 50g and refresh it with 100g water and 100g flour and start again in a fresh container where the allows lid allows for a bit of air flow. Then persevere for a few days and see what happens.

Thank you Mick and everyone else who offered advice. Well the moldy starter is long gone! So it is back to square one. I opened a brand-new bag of flour this morning and a fresh bottle of water. Using approximately 2 tablespoons of flour I made a stirrable paste with the water in a clean ceramic bowl. I have covered it loosely with plastic wrap. I will have to find a way to put it on top of my very tall refrigerator as I have a couple of four-legged houseguests who are very curious! We will see how this goes.

[weinoo]

Keep the faith, Anna! You'll get there; but then you'll have to start baking sourdough.

[ElsieD]

Or waffles.

Sourdough waffles are truly fabulous.

If only I had a waffle iron....

[weinoo]

You can Google sourdough pancakes and get recipes that are all basically the same, much like this, super easy:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/sourdough-pancakes-recipe.html

My family got so accustomed to that sourdough flavor that, even now years later, when I make what they call "ordinary pancakes," they complain.

BTW, while we were up there, I made sourdough fruitcake, too.

 

With my starter now up and running, I was thinking about pancakes. Sourdough pancakes.  As an fyi, the link above is not for sourdough pancakes, even though the geniuses at the Food Network like to call them that.

 

This one is though...nourished kitchen.

[Jaymes]

With my starter now up and running, I was thinking about pancakes. Sourdough pancakes.  As an fyi, the link above is not for sourdough pancakes, even though the geniuses at the Food Network like to call them that.

 

This one is though...nourished kitchen.

Oh, sorry. Should have looked more carefully. I just recalled it being so super easy, and the recipes/methods being so similar, that I just looked for a quick link.

[weinoo]

Of course - once you've got a real sourdough culture going, it can be subbed in for most any phony one, I guess.

[Anna N]

Keep the faith, Anna! You'll get there; but then you'll have to start baking sourdough.

Nothing would make me happier! (All right that's a bit of an overstatement.)