Pizza- Philadelphia/ Pennsylvania style

[mod*betty]

Hubby and I have been trying the local pizza joints near our new home (in hip and happening Phoenixville, so sez Philly Weekly!!) Alas, we have not found any that we could say is our favorite so far or has been in any other way memorable, except for perhaps its girth. They all seem to be sufficient in filling our bellies but otherwise uninspiring.

Both of us grew up in different states and have slightly different opinions as to what we consider a good "pie" (me/Boston area/Regina Pizza is my absolute fave-thin crust/tangy flavorful cheese/ him/Delaware/Grotto's/more a sauce fan than me.) but neither of us have been satisfied with anything we've gotten so far. I am totally aware of the fact that we could be surrounded by numerous unremarkable local pizza joints.

I am wondering if someone could define for me what Philadelphia Style Pizza is comprised of, and what the best Philly style should taste like. Also, where could we taste an example of this type of pizza, so we can at least calibrate ourselves to our new area? Maybe what we are getting is simply what it is supposed to taste like here and we just don't know it.

Thanks a bunch!

[philadining]

Sadly, there's not too much insipiring pizza in and around Phoenixville, I end up going to Sal's Pizza Box out of pure convenience, and every once in a while they accidentally make an incredibly good pizza, but most of the time, it's merely OK.

Up the road in Collegeville, there's a little family-run place called Marzella's that makes really good pizza. It's hard to put my finger on what's good about it, it's just very tasty...

Marzella's Pizza: on the corner of 5th Ave & Main St, Collegeville, PA 19426 (610) 489-4946

As for the bigger topic you bring up: we've had some discussions here in the past about Philadelphia pizza, and while I personally maintain that there isn't a specific, distinctive "Philly Style" pizza, the good stuff downtown certainly has in common a good, flavorful thin-ish crust, probably more flavorful than NY style, although maybe not quite as thin and crispy.

Tacconelli's pizza is legendary in the area, and worth the haul a bit north of Center City, and worth the extra trouble of calling a day ahead to "reserve your dough".

In south Philly, many are fond of Marra's (including me) and I think it has some of that distinctive philly taste.

Search around the philly board a bit, there have been a few discussions of this before, as you might imagine!

[shacke]

In south Philly, many are fond of Marra's (including me) and I think it has some of that distinctive philly taste.

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True dat.

Evan

[davidbdesilva]

I agree that there does not seem to a distinctive Philly Style pizza. I will also say that I do not understand what all the hubbub is all about regarding NY style pizza. I have had some examples of it and found it completely lacking, though I have never had the best.

Being out here in the burbs myself, we order from Guiseppie's in Lansdale (where we live) and feel that it is good. Not too thin not too thick chewy crust, good sauce and enough of it, good toppings. When we feel like a change we will order from New Station down the block, deep dish pizza made by Greek people rather than Italians, and being a nice change of pace. If your in lovely hip Lansdale (not that's an oxymoron) give them a try.

Edited February 23, 2006 by davidbdesilva (log)

[Bobby 2 Shakes]

When you're in the Norristown area you can try:

Franzone's Pizzeria

501 Dekalb St (rt 202)

Bridgeport, PA 19405

(610) 275-0114

For "tomato pie" it's hard to beat

Corropolese Bakery

2014 Old Arch Rd

Norristown, PA 19401

(610) 275-6664

(610) 272-8957

2564 Industry LN

Norristown, PA 19403

(610) 630-3762

29 Kugler Rd

Limerick, PA 19468

(610) 495-8331

[stephenc]

tomato pie

it's pretty good.

[Mummer]

When you're in the Norristown area you can try:

Franzone's Pizzeria...

For "tomato pie" it's hard to beat

Corropolese Bakery...

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This (in reverse order) was a Pizza Club itinerary in the fall of 2004. cdh brought a tomato pie to our gathering place at the farm/park on the fringes of Norristown.

Then we drove across the river to Franzone's where we had several pies, including one we called the Holly special, as the "smoked sausage" was a hot dog. (He was with us only in spirit.) Go to Franzone's, but choose real sausage if you're porkin'.

[MarketStEl]

I agree that there does not seem to a distinctive Philly Style pizza.

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Though there is a shop called "Philly Style Pizza" on South 11th just below Sansom, right across from the entrance to the Foerderer Pavilion at Jefferson Hospital. They make a decent cheesesteak, but since NYPD Pizza is at the opposite end of the same block, I've never tried their pizza.

NYPD, IMO, is what traditional New York-style pizza is supposed to be--yet I've never had it in New York (that place in Brooklyn where we went on a Pizza Club outing late in '04 aside). Somehow, the crusts are always a bit thicker than NYPD's and the slices soggier (if you get a slice of NYPD pizza fresh from the oven, it won't go limp on you; then again, maybe that also applies to the places in New York where I've had slices (aforementioned Brooklyn place excepted, again).

[mrbigjas]

here's a pretty cool thing that happened last night:

for a couple of months now, we've been getting flyers from the south philly outpost of gianfranco pizzeria rustica, a relatively new operation down around broad and jackson. but because of my preference for fresh pizza, i don't generally order out. last night we did. i called down there, they said it would come within an hour or so, i figure, they're coming kinda far, that's no problem.

well, an hour and ten went by and i gave them a call--not yelling or anything, just making sure we weren't forgotten about. the guy said he just talked to the driver, and he was right nearby. i figured that was a line to get me off the phone, but sure enough, in about two minutes the guy rang the bell.

then about 10 minutes later i get a call back--it's the owner, apologizing for the delay, saying things just got a little backed up more than he'd thought, and he really hoped everything was OK and that our pizzas were still OK and all.

i thought that was pretty nice of him. i mean, for a $15 order from a pizza place! that's called making the effort, and i'll order from them again.

also as may be expected from gianfranco's, the pizza was damn good for takeout pizza, which is always a pale imitation of what pizza can be.

so mod*betty, if you want a good representative sample of philadelphia pizza by the slice, gianfranco's at 3rd & market or broad & jackson.

[ellencho]

There definitely IS good pizza in Philly, but for the most part, if one were to generalize about "Philadelphia" style pizza I'd say it was doughy, thick, with a crappy sauce and undercooked cheese. But then again, I think that's how pizza anywhere else in middle America is probably.

[mrbigjas]

There definitely IS good pizza in Philly, but for the most part, if one were to generalize about "Philadelphia" style pizza I'd say it was doughy, thick, with a crappy sauce and undercooked cheese. But then again, I think that's how pizza anywhere else in middle America is probably.

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ugh. greek pizza.

[I_call_the_duck]

ugh.  greek pizza.

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Greek pizza ain't all that bad. Just different. I believe New Haven has great pizza, and if memory serves correct (I haven't been in about 15 years), it's Greek-style.

Sandy, I think NYPD (whose owners are from Brooklyn) is a pretty close approximate to NY pizza as one could get. (yeah, I keep playing the NY card. I'll try to stop, or at least do it less often. )

Another newbie question: what’s the deal with calling ahead for your dough at Taconelli’s?

Edited February 24, 2006 by I_call_the_duck (log)

[Mummer]

Another newbie question:  what’s the deal with calling ahead for your dough at Taconelli’s?

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No big deal. They don't make any more dough than they can bake in a day. If they're really busy, they may not have the dough to take your dough. So you call ahead to make sure you're not disappointed.

I've been there when we've had an "unreserved" pie - on a weekend, even.

It's like making a reservation exactly 30 days in advance. Part real, part folklore.

[philadining]

I believe New Haven has great pizza, and if memory serves correct (I haven't been in about 15 years), it's Greek-style.

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Yikes! I think you're going to get some arguments from the New Haveners...

[GregD]

I believe New Haven has great pizza, and if memory serves correct (I haven't been in about 15 years), it's Greek-style.

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Yikes! I think you're going to get some arguments from the New Haveners...

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The pizza shops around campus and so on are largely Greek, and some of them are pretty good, certainly much better than the Greek-style pizza you find all over Boston (now that's a city whose pizza makes Philly's look fantastic) and better than many, many of the pizza places here in Philly. The famous New Haven pizzas, though, like Pepe's, Sally's, and Modern Apizza, are all Italian.

[I_call_the_duck]

I believe New Haven has great pizza, and if memory serves correct (I haven't been in about 15 years), it's Greek-style.

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Yikes! I think you're going to get some arguments from the New Haveners...

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The pizza shops around campus and so on are largely Greek, and some of them are pretty good, certainly much better than the Greek-style pizza you find all over Boston (now that's a city whose pizza makes Philly's look fantastic) and better than many, many of the pizza places here in Philly. The famous New Haven pizzas, though, like Pepe's, Sally's, and Modern Apizza, are all Italian.

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The first time I was in New Haven, I was about 12. I actually didn't spend much time there (just by some brief visits to my sister when she was in college), so I didn’t know Greek pizza from Italian pizza. It was just good. My favorite pizza in New Haven was Yorkside, which I'm pretty sure is Greek.

[philadining]

Maybe it's a college-area thing, many of the pizza joints around Penn are Greek. They're often, but not always, identifiable by the word "style" in the name, or somewhere on the sign...

I probably would have starved in college if it weren't for philly's Greek-style pizza, so I'm not knocking it, but given a choice, I prefer the less-dense, less oily pizzas than are typically found at those places.

[I_call_the_duck]

Another newbie question:  what’s the deal with calling ahead for your dough at Taconelli’s?

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No big deal. They don't make any more dough than they can bake in a day. If they're really busy, they may not have the dough to take your dough. So you call ahead to make sure you're not disappointed.

I've been there when we've had an "unreserved" pie - on a weekend, even.

It's like making a reservation exactly 30 days in advance. Part real, part folklore.

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Like the bagel place on Washington and Columbus?

To ensure that you get your pizza? I thought that reserving your dough meant that you take uncooked dough to make your own pizza. Forgive me, I'm a little slow. Very interesting indeed.

[mrbigjas]

Maybe it's a college-area thing, many of the pizza joints around Penn are Greek. They're often, but not always, identifiable by the word "style" in the name, or somewhere on the sign...

I probably would have starved in college if it weren't for philly's Greek-style pizza, so I'm not knocking it, but given a choice, I prefer the less-dense, less oily pizzas than are typically found at those places.

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hey it works for some people. personally i would rather not have pizza than to eat that dense, thick, incredibly greasy flavorless pizza that i refer to as greek pizza.

[Buckethead]

Maybe Tacconelli's should apply the reservation policy gimmick to their toppings, too. The one and only time I went there we were perfectly able to get an extra pizza that we didn't 'reserve', but I had to do without the basil I wanted on top of it. They ran out. Lame.

[GregD]

I believe New Haven has great pizza, and if memory serves correct (I haven't been in about 15 years), it's Greek-style.

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Yikes! I think you're going to get some arguments from the New Haveners...

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The pizza shops around campus and so on are largely Greek, and some of them are pretty good, certainly much better than the Greek-style pizza you find all over Boston (now that's a city whose pizza makes Philly's look fantastic) and better than many, many of the pizza places here in Philly. The famous New Haven pizzas, though, like Pepe's, Sally's, and Modern Apizza, are all Italian.

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The first time I was in New Haven, I was about 12. I actually didn't spend much time there (just by some brief visits to my sister when she was in college), so I didn’t know Greek pizza from Italian pizza. It was just good. My favorite pizza in New Haven was Yorkside, which I'm pretty sure is Greek.

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Yeah, Yorkside was a well-known campus place. Pretty good, though I was a partisan of Broadway, on the other side of that corner. I believe that Yorkside no longer exists, because of some changes in that corner. Both Yorkside and Broadway were emphatically Greek, though better than most Greek pizzas I've had elsewhere.

I suspect, without knowing, that the Greeks operated pizza places around a lot of East and Midwest college campuses because of immigration patterns. A lot of well-known Italian pizza shops were in super-Italian neighborhoods; even those that aren't now--like some of the Italian pizza places in Brooklyn--simply just never moved. When college campuses boomed after World War 2, the Italians were ensconced in their hoods and didn't need to move, so the Greeks came in and took the opportunity in the 50s/60s/70s. Because Italian neighborhoods were, at the times, more lucrative places for pizza shops than college campuses, it would have been silly to move a good shop out of a neighborhood toward a college campus.

At least that's the story I've picked up from pizza shop families I've talked to over the years. Could be wrong, or right only for certain areas.

[herbacidal]

I suspect, without knowing, that the Greeks operated pizza places around a lot of East and Midwest college campuses because of immigration patterns.  A lot of well-known Italian pizza shops were in super-Italian neighborhoods; even those that aren't now--like some of the Italian pizza places in Brooklyn--simply just never moved.  When college campuses boomed after World War 2, the Italians were ensconced in their hoods and didn't need to move, so the Greeks came in and took the opportunity in the 50s/60s/70s.  Because Italian neighborhoods were, at the times, more lucrative places for pizza shops than college campuses, it would have been silly to move a good shop out of a neighborhood toward a college campus.

At least that's the story I've picked up from pizza shop families I've talked to over the years.  Could be wrong, or right only for certain areas.

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That makes sense historically, and also seems to jive with what I've seen through the years on campuses.

[Furious Flav-or]

Somehow this thread seems to have wandered back and forth a bit.

For decent campus pizza, try Allegro, near Penn: http://www.campusfood.com/restaurant.asp?campusid=1&restid=2

As a family, we've always gone to Celebre's, in the Packer Park shopping center, just south of the Walt Whitman bridge complex and a block and a half west of Broad. Cons? Chickie and Pete's makes parking almost impossible, and any event at the stadiums makes it even worse. Pros? The 'za is mind-blowing (thicker than a NYC napolitana, primo toppings, and a gravy like I've never had on a pizza elsewhere, ever), and there's a Termini's pastry shop right next door with cannolis.

Now that I've wandered back and forth myself, I think that the weakest and easiest response is this: there really is no fixed Philly pizza tradition, except for the fact that most of the late-night stuff available downtown is horrible. That, I think we can agree on.

Edited February 28, 2006 by Furious Flav-or (log)

[herbacidal]

As a family, we've always gone to Celebre's, in the Packer Park shopping center, just south of the Walt Whitman bridge complex and a block and a half west of Broad. Cons?

Now that I've wandered back and forth myself, I think that the weakest and easiest response is this: there really is no fixed Philly pizza tradition, except for the fact that most of the late-night stuff available downtown is horrible. That, I think we can agree on.

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Celebre's is a place I definitely want to try.

I've never thought of there being a Philly style pizza in the same way that there are several superb Philly sandwiches and Philly-style sandwiches.

Late-night stuff downtown isn't what I would call horrible, but late night "street food" downtown isn't as good as what I've seen in Hong Kong and NYC.

However, that's an unfair comparison, and I've always told people that Philly is not to be compared to those "international cities".

Any further comments on this deserve to be in another thread.