Southern discomfort food: robbing the culture?

[annecros]

Honestly, the majority of cities I have experienced in the US have not been conducive to foot traffic at all, and that has been forever.[...]

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It has not been forever. It wasn't until the 1950s postwar boom that car ownership became really common in the US. Before that, people shopped in city and town centers, not shopping malls, and walked a lot. In the 1939 World's Fair, my parents remember seeing models of empty highways to Long Island in the "World of Tomorrow" tent (or some such). They were counting on all those empty roads providing efficient transportation. What they didn't figure on was that if you build a highway, people will move to locations along its length and turn it into a long parking lot.

By the way, New York is by no means the only large US city that's conducive to walking. The problem, for the most part, isn't that people who live in the centers of big cities need cars to go shopping; many of them don't. The problem is the number of people who live in suburbs and suburban-sprawl cities, where the built-up center(s) is (are) mostly for business and not residential (you know, LA and several cities I haven't visited, like Houston, Dallas, Phoenix -- correct me if I'm operating under a misimpression), and generally need to drive to the mall every time they go shopping.

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Yeah, but they used a buggy or wagon to get to the town centers before they had cars. Goods were cheaper there because the railroad ran through it and stopped there. Before then, the town centers were crossroads, or in the cases of larger areas, ports. Hmm, so you don't see NYC as rather unique? I've never been anywhere like it, but there are a lot of places I haven't visited.

I'm not a sociologist or anthropologist, nor would I care to be one, but haven't Americans always "sprawled" all over the landscape?

It's funny you bring this up, because I was reading an article a few days ago about the "reruralization" of America. Seems there is a population shift of retirees and working people who have the technology to work remotely to more open spaces. The United States certainly never has had the population density you find in Europe except in some densely populated areas that are centers for trade.

Hubby and I moved the kids to suburban Palm Beach County in the 1980s, and I am glad we did it. They have had opportunity for educational and cultural experiences and exposure to other ethnicities and foods (to try and stay on topic a bit) and we both had professional opportunities that we would have never experienced in "Urban" (that's the way the census describes it) Albany, GA. We live in a subdivision safe enough that they could enjoy the Hide and Seek, Kick the Can type games after dark. They called it "Manhunt", but it was basically Kick the Can. And when they were in Middle School, I didn't have to worry about them much because every parent in the neighborhood parented each other's kids, and they were always within earshot of somebody yelling at them if they got out of hand.

To my mind, the suburbs just seem to be the compromise between being able to work for a living, now that the family farm can no longer support itself, and the need to be away from the crowds, yet still feel part of a community. The suburbs do neither perfectly, but hey, you can make do with it.

In the future for us, God willing, will be a shack on an unnamed key, or maybe a trailer in the Georgia Piedmont area.

With a good, big dog and a vegetable garden. Land and woods around us. Maybe a few chickens...

I've got grandchildren on my mind.

[annecros]

Key West is a city?

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Yep.

A really cool one, too. You should plan to go sometime, if you have never been. Plenty of conchs living there year around. I have a sisterinlaw that was raised there.

[MarketStEl]

When last I checked this thread, it was on eGullet.

I come back to find it's been moved to PLANetizen.

I'm a bit overweight myself and have a slightly sprawling midsection, but I live where I live--right smack in the middle of the third-largest residential downtown in the United States (after Midtown and Downtown Manhattan and Chicago's Loop/Near North Side; Center City Philadelphia's population at last count was about 70,000 and climbing, about twice the size of and many times denser than Key West, Fla.*)--precisely because you can walk to just about everything you need or want, including the suburban trains that take me to my job in the faded industrial city of Chester, 15 miles down the road.

The problem for us nowadays is that cities have always been shaped by the dominant modes of transport. William Penn's original vision for Philadelphia was of a "Greene Countrie Towne" where each block of the famous grid would contain just one dwelling--the resulting spaciousness would ensure that his Philadelphia would "always be wholesome and never burnt."

But as water and walking were the main modes of transport at the time, Penn's Philadelphia proved impractical. Instead, America's first metropolis crowded itself into the blocks closest to the Delaware River. At the time of its construction in 1733-35, the Pennsylvania State House--Independence Hall today--was at the western edge of the built-up city.

Oddly enough, it's today's Auto Age suburbs that probably most closely resemble the Philadelphia of Penn's dreams. And while millions of Americans enjoy living in them, some of them have this nagging feeling that there's something missing in them. I see that feeling expressed here once again.

That spate of "Do the Suburbs Make You Fat?" articles that appeared last summer also touch on that same missing element. Is a home gym an adequate substitute? From a purely physical exercise standpoint, yes--but only if you use it. I think many of us would like to get our workouts in the course of doing something else, but have fewer and fewer opportunities to do that because of all the ways we've engineered exertion out of our lives.

*Not to be confused with Key West Bar (207 South Juniper Street, just above Locust), one of Philadelphia's gayborhood watering holes.

[MarketStEl]

Key West is a city?

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apparently ...

The Southernmost City in the Continental USA in fact ...

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Their site should be in the .gov or .fl.us domains, not .com

[annecros]

Key West is a city?

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apparently ...

The Southernmost City in the Continental USA in fact ...

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Their site should be in the .gov or .fl.us domains, not .com

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What? You tryin' to tell the Conch Republic what to do?

It gets pretty dense down there Fantasy Fest week, as well. We took a miss last year, because of the storm of course, but will try to be down there this year.

You are right about the exercise issue. Anybody can get off the couch and take a walk, but will they? I guess it is another one of those blame an external factor things, and I never really thought about it before.

ETA Fantasy Fest Link

http://www.fantasyfest.net/

Edited February 15, 2006 by annecros (log)

[Oceangroveguy]

I've been to Key West, and it's charming and pretty and has (or had when I was there 10 years ago) some wonderful places to eat, but I would hardly characterize it as the kind of urban center the word 'city' describes.

[annecros]

I've been to Key West, and it's charming and pretty and has (or had when I was there 10 years ago) some wonderful places to eat, but I would hardly characterize it as the kind of urban center the word 'city' describes.

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Neither would the majority of areas that are designated cities, according to people who keep the demographics.

I guess there is a difference between the generic term city, and the term city as in "THE City" as in the big one in New York. Which is actually a collection of boroughs. And islands.

[MarketStEl]

I've been to Key West, and it's charming and pretty and has (or had when I was there 10 years ago) some wonderful places to eat, but I would hardly characterize it as the kind of urban center the word 'city' describes.

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A city is a political as well as a social or physical construct.

In some US states, the city is the only legal form of municipal corporation allowed, so it doesn't matter how small it is, if a community wishes to exercise some local control over its affairs, it incorporates as a city in those states.

In most of them, though, it is not, but the population threshold above which a municipality may legally incorporate as a city is usually quite low, often as low as 5,000 inhabitants. Cities of 30,000 to 50,000 inhabitants are quite common in the US, and some of these--especially those that house colleges or universities--can be surprisingly urbane for small communities. (Which is why fewer of these communities have 50,000 inhabitants or fewer.)

Key West is a resort community, so of course it will have a much different feel from a "city" in the sense you or I might mean when we use the term. But city it is nonetheless, legally at least.

--Sandy, posting this from the City of Chester, Pennsylvania, the state's oldest municipality, settled in 1644

[MarketStEl]

I've been to Key West, and it's charming and pretty and has (or had when I was there 10 years ago) some wonderful places to eat, but I would hardly characterize it as the kind of urban center the word 'city' describes.

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Neither would the majority of areas that are designated cities, according to people who keep the demographics.

I guess there is a difference between the generic term city, and the term city as in "THE City" as in the big one in New York. Which is actually a collection of boroughs. And islands.

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Four of New York's five boroughs are on islands. One--The Bronx--is on the mainland.

Then there was that recent New York Times article that asserted, in that stunningly confident but completely uninformed way only the Times can, that people down here increasingly refer to the City of Brotherly Love as "the sixth borough."

Pennsylvania has hundreds of boroughs--it's the legal category of municipality one step up from incorporated township and one step down from city--but trust me, Philadelphia ain't one of 'em, nor will it ever be if we can help it, despite the influx of New Yorkers seeking hipness on the cheap.

[Oceangroveguy]

I sit corrected on KW's official city-tude. For a city, it's a damn nice little town....

[annecros]

I sit corrected on KW's official city-tude. For a city, it's a damn nice little town....

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What other city can you stroll down the main street, bare foot, with your dog scattering the chickens, a mojito in one hand, jerked something on a stick, hubby smoking a fat stogie, and chat with the guy completely painted silver from head to toe, in front of the display window full of the latest S&M fashions, after you have applauded the sun for performing the feat of setting?

Maybe New Orleans?

We've had some great times in Key West, but we really prefer the middle keys for both the seafood and the snorkling.

[Blanche Davidian]

Sorry to divert the thread back to its original topic:

I think a big part of the problem is that a lot of Americans don't eat fresh vegetables. If you think about the foods most people have access to--from fast food or fast/casual restaurants (think TGI Mc Funster's) to the boxed/bagged convenience meals you can buy at the supermarket--vegetables most likely come batter-dipped and deep-fried or frozen and reconstituted. I don't blame the people I know who "don't like vegetables" (and scarily, there are a lot of them) when their only encounter with a pea is the kind that comes in a can, and the only steamed broccoli they've had is part of the "vegetable medley" sitting next to their riblets.

It's not so much the fried chicken that does you in, but the fried chicken with a side of fries.

[PopsicleToze]

An interesting article in Time 7/09/09:

Why Are Southerners So Fat?

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,...1909406,00.html

So there you have it. Southerners have little access to healthy food and limited means with which to purchase it. It's hard for them to exercise outdoors, and even when they do have the opportunity, it's so hot, they don't want to. To combat this affliction, some Southern states have adopted programs to fight rising obesity. In 2003, Arkansas passed a school body mass index–screening program that assesses weight and sends the results home to parents. Tennessee encourages its schools to buy fresh ingredients from local growers. And in 2007, Mississippi adopted nutritional standards for school lunches. Most of these programs are relatively new, so it will be a few years before experts can determine their efficacy. "I think there's reason for optimism," says Barrett. "But it's likely that the Southeast will lag behind the rest of the country for some time to come."

[CKatCook]

I have to admit, a lot of what I read in this thread I have to agree with to some degree. Americans are scared of food. Eating real food and cooking that real food is becoming a lost art (with the exception of those of us on this board of course, we love it)

Being from the south (Texas, Lousiana, Oklahoma) there is a big misconception of what goes on in this part of the US food wise.And I get so ticked when I see it so poorly represented in the national media. I never saw a deep fried twinkie. I eat chicken fried steak maybe once a year. I don't drink sweet tea on a regular basis, too sweet. And most of the people I know don't eat these things on a regular basis. (except sweet tea, maybe) I love greens and cornbread, smothered pork chops, banana pudding. But those are foods you have for sunday dinner, not everyday. Now BBQ, I will fight you for, but I can honestly say most I know don't eat BBQ everyday either. Now there is a lot processed food that is eaten, and it is correct that in the summer months exercising outside after 10 am is impossible. When cooking heats up your house not much of that goes on in the summer for those without air conditioning. Which is not many people these days. I think cooking in general is what is lost. Anymore when I try to talk to people about food it is mostly women in thier 60's and beyond that can talk about things like how to make a good pie crust, what is a good ham hock, proper way to make beans, etc. Things I consider the basics of cooking. -> I don't think that is a southern issue, I think that is a U.S. issue.

In the schools the first thing that is cut is Physcial Ed. and that is a damn shame. I have a life long love of exercise and I credit PE. for that. P.E. is what needs to be brought back.

[PandoraLost]

I agree that ultimately the issue is the lack of physical activity, versus any inherent problem with the food itself. I grew up eating, for the most part, seasonally; we would go to the farmer's market and buy bushels of corn, peas, beans, etc, and spend days shelling, shucking, cleaning, boiling, and freezing. What didn't get frozen or otherwise preserved was eaten.

I also remember that when I was in school, phys ed was mandatory. If it was cold outside, we still had to run; maybe if it was really cold, we'd be in the gym running, but we were still required to participate in some sort of activity. If it was raining outside, we had the option of playing basketball, doing pull-ups, jumping rope, or walking laps around the gym.

I also agree that it's more of an issue of people's lack of interest in cooking. I was helping in the kitchen as soon as I could see over the stove/counter. As a result, I rely very little on convenience foods; why spend extra money I don't have on food I won't really like anyway? Especially when it actually works out cheaper to make my own meals, and I know what I like? But I have known quite a few people in college who don't know how to do more than heat something up in a microwave, because their parents never taught them any cooking skills. I was a wonder to several friends: given a camp stove, a few pots and pans, and a grocery run, I was fully capable of making a dinner much better than the dining hall would ever serve.

It's a nationwide issue, childhood obesity. I think that if you look at the statistics of where the highest rates of obesity are, region-speaking, they are in areas where abundant eating is common practice. And even that has common-sense roots. In the south, food portions are large and calories are high because heavy labor was the norm until fairly recently. If you're sweating out half your fluid volume in a field all day, you need more salts and more calories. If you're working in a factory for ten-twelve hours, you need calories. It's adjusting those cultural norms of portion size that should be the emphasis, not the foods themselves.

[MomOfLittleFoodies]

I don't think it's so much a lack of interest in cooking... more of a general apathy about good nutrition and lack of inclination to think "outside of the box" as far as trying new foods go.

I also remember that when I was in school, phys ed was mandatory. If it was cold outside, we still had to run; maybe if it was really cold, we'd be in the gym running, but we were still required to participate in some sort of activity. If it was raining outside, we had the option of playing basketball, doing pull-ups, jumping rope, or walking laps around the gym.

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I can't speak for the Southern states, but here in CA, physical ed is still mandatory. For K-6, a certain number of hours per week is required, and for 7-12, a certain number of units is required.

For K-6, it may not be a "structured" PE class, but it's still physical activity, such as a kick ball game, running laps, or jumping rope.

Edited August 6, 2009 by MomOfLittleFoodies (log)

[The Omnivore]

It doesn't seem fair to pick any one region's cuisine as particularly bad or good. They are each different and each utilizes what natural ingredients their region can grow well. Health has much more to do with lifestyle choices and moderation than specifically what type of food you eat. There's also a huge difference in eating home-cooked fried chicken every sunday or KFC. Plenty of any cuisine's "healthiness" would also have to stem from the ingredients used. Blaming southern cuisine today would have more to do with the lack of effort from majority of people to go out and find organic vegetables than what passed down recipe they're using, whether it's the new diet styled version or the 100 year old family secret.

Too much emphasis is laid on what we're eating today instead of HOW we're eating and how MUCH. Forget blaming a cuisine, start blaming the people who choose to eat artery clogging foods in excess.