Judging People on their Taste

[foodiehall]

In my dating days, I went out once with a man who, among other things, was lactose intolerant. I don't remember how the conversation came up on a first date, but he mentioned that he had cereal with water for breakfast.

I must've stared at him bug-eyed, and finally asked, "How does it taste?"

"Terrible," he replied.

Right then, I knew there would be no second date.

(Note: This is not meant as a put-down of anyone with food allergies. My sister is allergic to milk -- not just lactose, but milk protein, too. She's a damn fine cook and would never settle for something that tasted "terrible" to avoid setting off her allergy.)

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I don't know why this struck me as so funny....but it did. Thanks for a good LOL

[suzilightning]

Just remember that everything goes well with a little Mrs. Dash. 

(I'm kidding...well, mostly.  )

Soba

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on those boneless, skinless chicken breasts, stanley.

[Susan G]

OK, danieelwiley, here's a thought that will chase away the image of the *eating habits* of the prospective-third-date woman: People who are not interested in being adventurous with food? Not adventurous in bed either. (Didn't we have a looong topic thread about this lately?)

Now, which lack bothers you more?

[Deacon]

She had a Thomas Kinkade original on display in her living room.

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Does she go on a lot of cruises?

[jgm]

I hate to tell you guys this but...

(I'm from Kansas. We call everybody "you guys".)

I like Olive Garden. I eat there a lot.

I grew up in a small town in Western Kansas where you couldn't reliably find parsley. Vegetables came from a can. Things have changed somewhat, thank Heaven. But even though I'm in a much larger city now (the largest city in Kansas) there are a lot of foods that you probably eat frequently, that I can't reliably find here, and have never tasted.

Further confessions:

I have never had foie gras. I doubt it's served within 200 miles of here. I had caviar once in 1979, and it was stolen from a buffet in a fancy hotel. But I loved it.

I have never had fresh seafood. (I take that back. I went to Italy after graduating from high school; probably the mussels we had with pasta were fresh. That was 1973.)

I have never eaten fennel. Or a lot of other things you guys take for granted.

I've never had wine from a bottle that cost more than $15.

You get the idea.

Would I like to eat all that stuff? Absolutely! And I hope to at least taste it before I die. Really fine food is available at only a couple of restaurants here, and it is probably nothing special, compared to what you guys on the coasts eat. I read eGullet posts about restaurants in New York City or LA, and I nearly die of envy. But that kind of life just isn't in the cards for some of us. If anybody wants to educate my palate, send me a personal message, and I'll give you the address to send the plane ticket to, and I'll be happy to be your guest for all of the incredible meals we can find. You have no idea how much I would love to eat the things you eat.

There's every possibility that this woman simply hasn't had the experience of eating finer foods. In fact, I'm betting this is the case. This is your Pygmalion! Think of her as a blank canvas, just waiting for her maybe future sister-in-law to introduce her to delectable things, the likes of which she has never seen. I still have fond memories of the woman who introduced me to artichokes, even though I can't stand her and we haven't spoken in 25 years. If she hadn't cooked them for me, I would never have figured out how to eat them. She learned from the wealthy couple in Chicago for whom she was a nanny during her summers in college.

By the way, you might want to take a look at Amanda Hesser's "Cooking for Mr. Latte." She describes her first date with the man she eventually marries, and even though it takes place in NYC, it's at a sports bar. She spends the entire book introducing Tad to the finer things in life, and trying to get him to appreciate them. And there's a wonderful description of speeches at (or around) their wedding. One of Tad's friends describes Amanda as "the only person who could make Tad look like a rube." (Please forgive a probably inaccurate/incomplete quote. I don't have the book nearby, or I'd look it up.)

[daniellewiley]

OK, danieelwiley, here's a thought that will chase away the image of the *eating habits* of the prospective-third-date woman: People who are not interested in being adventurous with food?  Not adventurous in bed either.  (Didn't we have a looong topic thread about this lately?)

Now, which lack bothers you more?   

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Hey, it's my younger brother. He's of course a virgin.

[phaelon56]

I'm perfectly content to judge a person's food taste based on their restaurant preferences but I'd never stray so far from what really matters to me to judge the person based on those preferences. This of course is coming directly from a almost-age-50-never-been-married-lotso-women type of guy.

I can't tell you exactly how many women I've dated who absolutely love the Red Lobster and Olive Garden and even find Applebee's and its ilk acceptable. With few exceptions they've been fine women, genuinely good people and had so omany admirable traits and such good values that I could compromise. Under duress I have been to OG on many occasions and learned what dishes I can tolerate (the endless salad bowl and garlic bread sticks are actually pretty decent ).

I do draw the line at Red Lobster - just can't stand the joint but and won't eat there even to please a lady friend but we all have our limits.

Some of the most important people in my life have incredibly pedestrian and in some cases severaly limited taste in food but I happily tolerate it because all the other stuff about them (well... most of it) is so good.

I have found that many of my lady friends who like places like OG actually do appreciate higher end and more subtle culinary experiences but they're far less critical than I am about food quality. So be it - if the other stuff works just sign me up

As for people who are not adventuropus with food being unadventurous in bed I'll only say that there are exceptions to the rule

Does she go on a lot of cruises?

As recently as a few short years ago I would have made a comment like this myself. Then I agreed to go on a seven day cruise in order to be agreeable with a lady friend who had been on several and just loved that mode of travel. And guess what? In November I'm going on another one (with a different woman but I digress). IMO it's a terrible way to see any given destination (confirms what I suspected before trying one) and there are many cheesy aspects to the experience.

But on the right ship and cruise line there's also a level of service that makes it one of the absolutely most relaxing travel experiences one could possibly have. And the food? Apart from the buffet area, whcih was as bad or worse than I thought it would be (and was busy all the time), the food was far better than I expected; generally acceptable, quite often more inventive than I would have expected and on a few occasions surprisingly good (e.g. a rack of lamb that was just amazing).

Oh sure... the average eGulleteer would find plenty to grumble about in crusie ship food but if you want a relaxing and very romantic vacation on the cheap - it can be an eye opener.

But I still won't eat at Red Lobster.

[MicBacchus]

What type of places does your brother enjoy? Is Olive Garden (and other such chains) part of his comfort zone, or does he prefer more upscale?

My DH was such a plebian eater when we first met that something so common as cumin was an unknown commodity . Meals made from scratch reminded him of his grandmother! (That's a good thing; she was an awesome baker). [Evil aside - his ex was an abysmal cook and served burned/cold food.] But patience and careful meal planning now has him eating calamari, shrimp (even this was a big deal) and any ethnic cuisine I suggest. Although it could be love . I just guide him to something that I think is close to what he'd like, 99% of the time I'm right, and then it's time to expand the menu. Maybe that's the track you'll need to take when entertaining them.

[canucklehead]

Oh you Americans.... be happy that you are not Asian - when everything is up for judgement.

My godmother told me when I meet the right person she will do three things with them

1) Sit in their car while they drive.

2) Have a meal with them.

3) Play Mah Jong with them

Then - alll character strengths and flaws will be revealed. I know it sounds like the f'king Joy Luck Club - but this is how things work in old school Chinese people's minds.

Olive Garden? They are dead to me!!

Edited July 29, 2005 by canucklehead (log)

[*Deborah*]

Oh you Americans.... be happy that you are not Asian - when everything is up for judgement.

My godmother told me when I meet the right person she will do three things with them

1) Sit in their car while they drive.

2) Have a meal with them.

3) Play Mah Jong with them

Then - alll character strengths and flaws will be revealed.  I know it sounds like the f'king Joy Luck Club - but this is how things work in old school Chinese people's minds. 

Olive Garden?  They are dead to me!!

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Lee, what if she can't play mah-jongg?

[canucklehead]

Lee, what if she can't play mah-jongg?

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Older Asian women are wily wily wily - if you don't play Mah-Johg, then its off to a major shoe sale (ie Nordstrom's). Everything in that greed-spendiness-sneakiness continum will be be revealed.

"HA! You will never make a good wife for my son! Too many open toe shoes means you are immodest. Bad Girl!"

Sorry - this is so off topic. Just go to the Olive Garden and end it quickly.

Edited July 29, 2005 by canucklehead (log)

[fiftydollars]

Oh you Americans.... be happy that you are not Asian - when everything is up for judgement.

My godmother told me when I meet the right person she will do three things with them

1) Sit in their car while they drive.

2) Have a meal with them.

3) Play Mah Jong with them

Then - alll character strengths and flaws will be revealed.  I know it sounds like the f'king Joy Luck Club - but this is how things work in old school Chinese people's minds. 

Olive Garden?  They are dead to me!!

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Mexican women would just put her to work.

[racheld]

A professor once told us a story about an investment advisor friend who met a client at her home and immediately told her he couldn’t work with her.

She had a Thomas Kinkade original on display in her living room.

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I hope the investment advisor can afford to be so snobbish. The twee art makes me feel as if I've eaten too many marshmallows, but he was probably looking at 120,000+ on her wall. The woman has MONEY to spend. Maybe his excruciating TASTE can pay his rent.

[fiftydollars]

A professor once told us a story about an investment advisor friend who met a client at her home and immediately told her he couldn’t work with her.

She had a Thomas Kinkade original on display in her living room.

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I hope the investment advisor can afford to be so snobbish. The twee art makes me feel as if I've eaten too many marshmallows, but he was probably looking at 120,000+ on her wall. The woman has MONEY to spend. Maybe his excruciating TASTE can pay his rent.

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At the time this professor (art history) said this, the painting on that wall was worth well over a $Million. His friend said that a woman that would spend that type of money on something like that is just not the type of client he can work with.

[Josh]

OLIVE GARDEN!!???? And she warrants a third date with my darling little brother??

Oh, the humanity.

So, I know I'm a total snob, and that she might be a lovely woman, but I can't help but judge her now. And when/if I meet her, I won't be able to stop thinking about the fact that she loves Olive Garden!

Am I nuts?

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LOL. Come on, Danielle. Surely you've developed more understanding/empathy for the Olive Garden crowd since you migrated from NY... I know I did when I temporarily relocated to Great Plains for grad school...

Never understimate the power of copious quanities of reasonably priced mediocre food served in a safe environment! Having said that, are you really more disturbed by the actual food at Olive Garden, or the Olive Garden concept of mass-produced homogenized Italian food?

Personally, I don't care all that much Olive Garden. Not the worst thing I've ever eaten, but the concept does irk me and I'd much prefer to spend my Friday night queuing up at a Chinatown NYC hole in the wall to eat soup dumplings at shared tables in a place that hasn't been renovated in at least two decades. But I won't for a second try to convince you that that's any more sane!

Having said that, as someone about your bro's age who has a diagnosable weakness for Taco Bell (it's not Mexican, it's Taco Bell!), I would probably be willing to date someone who likes Olive Garden if her palette was otherwise more expansive and we had other things in common. But take her on a third date there? Heck no!

Edited July 30, 2005 by Josh (log)

[Busboy]

I hate to tell you guys this but...

(I'm from Kansas.  We call everybody "you guys".) 

I like Olive Garden.  I eat there a lot.

I grew up in a small town in Western Kansas where you couldn't reliably find parsley.  Vegetables came from a can.  Things have changed somewhat, thank Heaven.  But even though I'm in a much larger city now (the largest city in Kansas)  there are a lot of foods that you probably eat frequently, that I can't reliably find here, and have never tasted.

Further confessions:

I have never had foie gras.  I doubt it's served within 200 miles of here.  I had caviar once in 1979, and it was stolen from a buffet in a fancy hotel.  But I loved it.

I have never had fresh seafood.  (I take that back.  I went to Italy after graduating from high school; probably the mussels we had with pasta were fresh.  That was 1973.)

I have never eaten fennel.  Or a lot of other things you guys take for granted.

I've never had wine from a bottle that cost more than $15.

You get the idea.

Would I like to eat all that stuff?  Absolutely!  And I hope to at least taste it before I die.  Really fine food is available at only a couple of restaurants here, and it is probably nothing special, compared to what you guys on the coasts eat.  I read eGullet posts about restaurants in New York City or LA, and I nearly die of envy.  But that kind of life just isn't in the cards for some of us.  If anybody wants to educate my palate, send me a personal message, and I'll give you the address to send the plane ticket to, and I'll be happy to be your guest for all of the incredible meals we can find.  You have no idea how much I would love to eat the things you eat. 

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Hah! You're own fault for living in Kansas.

Take comfort in the fact that you can live in a massive free-standing home for what we coastal-types would pay for a 2-bedroom apartment.

Which is the largest city, Witchita or KC-KA, (or Lawrence?) btw (and, if KC, can't you roll into Missouri for gourmet foodstuffs? My wife's colleagues tend to paint KC as a fairly sophisto burg...though I don't necessarily trust their judgement, it sounds better than the picture you paint).

Everyone gets to DC at some point...to "citizen-lobby", see the cherry blossoms or chaperone the school trip. PM when you get to town, we'll get you some foie gras and some raw oysters , and make a Bernaise sauce or something. Just pack some of that good Kansas beef and BBQ for barter purposes.

[Deacon]

Does she go on a lot of cruises?

As recently as a few short years ago I would have made a comment like this myself. . . .

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Phaelon, I just meant that they seem to auction off a whole lot of Thomas Kinkead on cruises. No snobbery against cruises or cruise food intended.

[racheld]

A professor once told us a story about an investment advisor friend who met a client at her home and immediately told her he couldn’t work with her.

She had a Thomas Kinkade original on display in her living room.

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I hope the investment advisor can afford to be so snobbish. The twee art makes me feel as if I've eaten too many marshmallows, but he was probably looking at 120,000+ on her wall. The woman has MONEY to spend. Maybe his excruciating TASTE can pay his rent.

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At the time this professor (art history) said this, the painting on that wall was worth well over a $Million. His friend said that a woman that would spend that type of money on something like that is just not the type of client he can work with.

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Nuff said. It just sounded as if he were cutting off his elevated nose to spite his face.

[KarenS]

I'm trying to absorb the "never have had fresh seafood" quote. In my opinion- you should really try to change that! I could care less if I never ate beef/ pork/chicken/ lamb again. But not eating seafood would make me very sad (you can order it online you know).

[jgm]

Take comfort in the fact that you can live in a massive free-standing home for what we coastal-types would pay for a 2-bedroom apartment.   

Which is the largest city, Witchita or KC-KA, (or Lawrence?) btw (and, if KC, can't you roll into Missouri for gourmet foodstuffs? My wife's colleagues tend to paint KC as a fairly sophisto burg...though I don't necessarily trust their judgement, it sounds better than the picture you paint).

Everyone gets to DC at some point...to "citizen-lobby", see the cherry blossoms or chaperone the school trip.  PM when you get to town, we'll get you some foie gras and some raw oysters , and make a Bernaise sauce or something.  Just pack some of that good Kansas beef and BBQ for barter purposes.

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There is certainly a lot of comfort to be taken in our housing values, our relatively clean air, and the relatively few minutes it takes to get out of the city and into the country. (We are currently looking at houses in the $150,000 range; most have about 1,400 square feet plus basements, and large yards.) Most people don't realize the main Dean & Deluca warehouse is here--precisely because warehouse space here is much, much cheaper than in NYC. I do have the advantage of picking up my D&D orders at the warehouse door, without paying shipping. I can do it on my lunch hour.

A few years ago, when I worked at our local library, I was trying to help a guy from the east coast who was in town interviewing for a job. He wanted to play golf, and his job decision would depend on whether he would be able to afford to play golf here. He was an engineer, applying for a $100,000+ job, and I was stunned. I hadn't realized that in some parts of the country, only the truly wealthy can afford to play. He wouldn't believe me when I told him that there are at least a dozen golf courses within 25 miles of the library, and that although some are higher-end, even library aides (~$8.00 per hour employees) could afford to play golf here--weekly. (I had to get one of them on the phone to prove it.) When I offered to take him on a tour of golf courses after the library closed, and show him all of the parks his children could play in, he thought I was nuts, and left the building. Apparently, in more populous areas, people don't make offers like that, and looking back, he probably thought he was about to be axe murdered.

Wichita is technically the largest city in Kansas. The KC metro area is much larger, but only a portion of it is on our side of the state line. Lawrence is quite a bit smaller, but just a few miles from KC; intellectually, it's one of the largest cities in the midwest. We do get to KC from time to time, but have not had the opportunity to eat in the "nicer" restaurants. My husband is a jeans-and-t-shirt aircraft mechanic (whose palate is developing quite nicely, actually) and he'd have to acquire a wardrobe for the occasion. I'm looking for a food-oriented friend here who could make the trip to KC with me occasionally while he's working weekend overtime, trying to get jets ready to fly.

You're on for the D.C. visit. I've got some great sources of beef. Should I bring some mountain oysters, too?

[Deacon]

I hate to tell you guys this but . . .

I like Olive Garden.  I eat there a lot. . . .

I have never had foie gras.  I doubt it's served within 200 miles of here.  I had caviar once in 1979, and it was stolen from a buffet in a fancy hotel.  But I loved it.

I have never had fresh seafood.  (I take that back.  I went to Italy after graduating from high school; probably the mussels we had with pasta were fresh.  That was 1973.)

I have never eaten fennel.  Or a lot of other things you guys take for granted.

I've never had wine from a bottle that cost more than $15.

You get the idea.

Would I like to eat all that stuff?  Absolutely!  And I hope to at least taste it before I die.  Really fine food is available at only a couple of restaurants here, and it is probably nothing special, compared to what you guys on the coasts eat. . . .

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Don't be envious. You've got Stroud's, which is a place I'd like to eat at, if I'm ever in Wichita.

[NulloModo]

Eh, I would never write someone off because of their taste in restaurants.

I like Olive Garden, but I also like South Philly Red Gravey Joints, random PA/NJ/DE Italian steak-sub-pizza joints, high end real Italian, and everything in between. In general, I'm just not particularly picky. I mean, hey, I appreciate the good stuff, and I like it when others do to, but life is so much more enjoyable if you just dig the simple pleasures as much as the exclusive ones.

Maybe it is just me, but thinking someone is no good just because they would like to eat at Olive Garden instead of the local really nice French joint sounds similar to the girls who won't date guys who drive Cavaliers instead of BMWs.

[Katie Nell]

Does anyone think that Olive Garden's red sauce tastes suspiciously like Ragu?!?

Okay, I have sort of a sideline topic... I have the opposite problem! A lot of the people I'm friends with or work with think that I am "picky" about food! How do I get the point across that I love food, but I appreciate good food even more? Do I just accept that these are the people that will run three floors down, probably knocking over five people on the way, just to get free Pizza Hut at work and they just don't get it or is there a way to educate them without putting their tastes down?

[Katie Nell]

I'm looking for a food-oriented friend here who could make the trip to KC with me occasionally while he's working weekend overtime, trying to get jets ready to fly.

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I'm available... oh, how I love to eat! (I'm in Overland Park!)

[Pan]

Okay, I have sort of a sideline topic... I have the opposite problem!  A lot of the people I'm friends with or work with think that I am "picky" about food!  How do I get the point across that I love food, but I appreciate good food even more?

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My guess is that you probably won't get that point across, and might as well embrace the title "picky eater."