Making Fresh Masa

[BarbaraY]

Thanks, Ed. Your brief but very useful post prompts several potentially stupid questions:

Should I assume that most fresh masa is made from dried, reconstituted dent corn, and thus that I'm not going to suffer in quality much, if at all?

Does anyone have any sources for the corn and the lime? Racho Gordo seems not to have it, and when I Google "dent corn" I get a jillion feed sources.

I have a Kitchen Aid stand mixer with a grinder attachment -- acceptable substitute for a molino?

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Good questions, all.

Yes, fresh masa is made from corn that has been soaked in slaked lime water to soften.

I can't say how well a Kitchen Aid would work. In the Mexican markets here in CA, there is molino that looks a bit like an old fashioned meat grinder. Haven't bought one because there are so many markets that will order the prepared masa.

Gourmet Sleuth

Go to Mexican products and look for white dried corn. They also carry the cal (slaked lime) and the molino.

Edited August 18, 2005 by BarbaraY (log)

[rancho_gordo]

Does anyone have any sources for the corn and the lime? Racho Gordo seems not to have it, and when I Google "dent corn" I get a jillion feed sources.

Your Mexican store will have the corn and the Lime. The Lime is in little packlages called CaL. I can send you that if you get stuck, but it should be pretty easy. I can also send you regular corn for masa, I'm just out of the green dent corn from Oaxaca for the year.

I have a Kitchen Aid stand mixer with a grinder attachment -- acceptable substitute for a molino?

This is the step I am most leary about. How do you contril the grind? Tamales want a coarser griond than tortillas (although I've made tortillas from tamal masa (pre-lard) and they were nice and almost rustic. I'd always heard the hand crank grinder mentioned in the blog was for dry ingredients. So this is the step that's most confusing to me. Maybe you should buy a metate!

[BarbaraY]

If you will go to the site I mentioned and run a search for molino you will find detailed instructions on using the molino and the metate.

[Chris Amirault]

Ok, thanks for all this information:

I can't say how well a Kitchen Aid would work. In the Mexican markets here in CA, there is molino that looks a bit like an old fashioned meat grinder. Haven't bought one because there are so many markets that will order the prepared masa.

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Even though Steve (rancho_gordo) is leery about this I think that I'm going to give it a crack with the KA grinder, which has different grind settings and works like a charm on lots of stuff. The grinder at the tortilleria seemed like a standard issue large volume meat grinder -- at least to my amateur eyes.

Gourmet Sleuth

Go to Mexican products and look for white dried corn. They also carry the cal (slaked lime) and the molino.

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That website is great -- and the directions at the molino page are outstanding. Thanks!

Your Mexican store will have the corn and the Lime. The Lime is in little packlages called CaL. I can send you that if you get stuck, but it should be pretty easy. I can also send you regular corn for masa, I'm just out of the green dent corn from Oaxaca for the year.

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Sorry to misrepresent, Steve. I'm PMing you about the masa, as I don't at all trust that I can get good corn for masa at this store; I think I'd be stuck with Goya....

Maybe you should buy a metate!

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I've got one small and one large mortar and pestle, an heirloom molcajete, and I'm currently trying to justify getting a very, very large thai mortar and pestle (my merely large one needs a bigger companion!). So right now I'm loathe to lay out the $100 for a metate delivery!

[ScorchedPalate]

If the KA meat grinder doesn't do it for you, you could try the grain mill attachment, although it sounds like most folks feel a stand-alone grinder would be a better option.

[rancho_gordo]

If the KA meat grinder doesn't do it for you, you could try the grain mill attachment, although it sounds like most folks feel a stand-alone grinder would be a better option.

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The grain mill seems to be for "low moisture" grains. Do you think the meat attachment would work? Why not? Chris, which one are you referring to?

[rancho_gordo]

I have this one. Called a "food grinder". It's in a very nice box on the shelf never used. Is this the one? Can you adjust the grind?

[Chris Amirault]

I have this one. Called a "food grinder". It's in a very nice box on the shelf never used. Is this the one? Can you adjust the grind?

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This is indeed the one. Take it off the shelf, Steve, and get crackin; I never buy ground meat any more and have been making sausages like there's no tomorrow.

There are I think two (maybe three) different grind plates (if that's the right word), and you can adjust the speed, of course, which does make a slight difference. I was thinking that I'd run it through the plate with the smallest holes a couple of times, see how that goes.

I don't have a food grinder -- but I can say that I will be tossed out of my house on my fat arse if I even suggest that we should buy one.

[bavila]

A few summers ago at a friend's lake house in Wisconsin, I was one of about 10 people lead by a native of Colombia in a mass empanada production, including making our own fresh masa.

Talk about labor intensive! I hope you are committed Chris. Afterward, I calculated that the empanadas had to have been the most "expensive" thing we ate that week given the labor hours that went into it. I regret to report that the empanadas did not seem worth the trouble. Perhaps in the hands of a better cook they would have been something to write home about.

That said, Chris, I'm sure you can do a better job with seasoning, etc. And although I can't tell you where exactly he got the corn, it had to have been somewhere in Wisconsin, or more likely Miami --- where this guy lived.

[ScorchedPalate]

I have this one. Called a "food grinder". It's in a very nice box on the shelf never used. Is this the one? Can you adjust the grind?

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I, too, love mine. Haven't bought ground meat in years, and I love making my own sausage.

You can only adjust the grind by changing from the medium die to the coarse die... so far as I know, there are no other die options.

~A

[Gabriel Lewis]

For a long time I have been pushing myself to get my act together such that I can make tamales. I am now in a relatively good position to make tamales, but my quandary is this: how to prepare the masa from scratch? If I am going to make all the effort, I would like my tamales to turn out as best as I can possibly make them.

After much reading, here's what I know:

I have some corn which is corn for posole. When my aunt stopped by the other day (she is mexican), she exclaimed "ah you have the corn for posole!" and told me about some happy memories involving posole and some particular celebration in september. I believe this corn has already been nixtamalized, it is all white except the tip, and looks like the corn in this picture.

Assuming my corn has been nixtamalized, can anyone provide any advice or a general procedure for turning it into masa para tamales? I found this thread digging through the back pages of this forum which has been helpful, but leaves some questions unanswered. The member in question who originall performed the experiment, Bimbo Jones hasn't been active in several months.

I have looked through many websites and guides and done a lot of reading, and I think I have a pretty good idea of what to do, but really I'm looking for a little "hand-holding" as I'm still a little uncertain..

[Jay Francis]

It's really exciting to hear that you are going to tackle making your own masa. Although I have slaked corn in Mexico, I haven't ever tackled grinding corn into masa in my home. I default to the Maseca, masa para tamales, which is an excellent product. In a class I once had with Patricia Quintana, she recommended a 50/50 mix of regular Maseca and Maseca para tamales.

I had the pleasure of doing some recipe testing for Robb Walsh's The Tex-Mex Cookbook. I am very proud of the tamal recipe he and I developed for the book using Maseca as our base. Here's hoping, if you default to Maseca, you will have great success with this recipe, too.

[Jmahl]

My wife tells me that if you already have access to maize that has been nixtamalized or (soaked in lime) after it has been rinsed and drained just grind. On the ranch in Northern Mexico we use a hand grinder and you grind it twice. My resident expert says Kitchenaid makes a grain grinder that also works. Also your grind should be fine but not as fine as you would use for tortillas. If you want to make tortillas see the thread "Tortillas 1,2,3." Fresh ground masa makes wonderful tortillas.

Enjoy,

Jmahl

[Gabriel Lewis]

Thanks for your responses everyone.

It seems another aspect that I didn't quite understand has become clear. Fresh masa is prepared in the same way as Maseca would be except that the corn has been freshly ground. Feel free to enlighten me if I've misspoken.

I don't know that I have anything capable of grinding the corn I have, this stuff seems pretty rock solid and all I have is a small coffee grinder for spices and a food processor. Unfortunately, I am not in a financial position to make any grinding purchases right now but I will keep the suggestions in mind.

In the thread I mentioned previously Bimbo Jones simply simmered (and also soaked overnight I believe) the corn until it seemed soft enough to grind, and then ground it in her food processor. I'm not sure if she added more water to her dough afterwards, I am curious at to the details as it seemed to work well for her.

Jay - Thank you for the suggestion and encouragement. Maseca para tamales (pink bag) doesn't seem to be available here, so I am left only with Maseca para tortillas (white bag). Is the recipe you mention simply this mix or is there a link to it somewhere on the web? I have looked at some recipes for masa para tamales but am as of yet unsure how I am going to turn the basic masa (ground corn) into the actual masa for the finished tamales.

[Jmahl]

Maseca is already ground and dehydrated Masa. To make fresh masa you need dry corn, dehusked, soaked in water overnight with lime added to break down the cellulose coating of the kernals.

A good source of fresh masa is a tortilla factory -- just tell them you want a courser grind. Use the masa quickly -- it has a short use life.

Good luck,

Jmahl

[Gabriel Lewis]

Thanks Jmahl. Once the corn has been soaked and nixtamalized (cellulose layer taken off) is it ground straight away or dried and then ground? I wondered because usually when grinding you want your grain to be as dry as possible, although it doesn't seem this would be a problem with a traditional metate.

I just tried grinding up a small batch in my coffee grinder, and suprisingly it worked quite well. I didn't try to get it as fine as I could but it ended up a little coarser than my maseca (white bag). I made two small tortillas with it and they seemed pretty good, although I'm not sure they were better than Maseca; it may be the corn I have isn't quite fresh enough. I'm going to experiment a little more and do a side by side comparison, and also try grinding the corn in my food processor.

I did try asking the local tortilla factory for some of their masa, but they were unwilling to part with any. It would have been nice, but I am really enjoying the process of learning about masa and doing everything myself. Also, I am a bit suspicious of the quality as their tortillas are worse than mine made from maseca, and I'm pretty sure they make them daily. Whether this is a result of the corn used, the way they or made, or the freshness I do not know.

[gfron1]

For the good of the cause I'm bringing Gabe's and my PM discussion into the thread. I did fresh masa for the Pastry & Baking Cookoff Round 2 (Mincemeat Tamales).

I had previously only made tamales from the powdered masa - not even the same thing as the fresh stuff. My fresh masa started with frozen posole at the advice of a friend who lived in MX for many years. She had me grind the posole and fresh corn in a Cuisinart which gave a great consistency and taste. In my PMs I've suggested that Gabe seek out the frozen posole versus canned, and so now I wonder the difference between frozen and dried.

[Gabriel Lewis]

Indeed, Rob (grfon1) has been very helpful. On my next trip to the latin markets in the area I will check for frozen posole. I suspect the fact that Rob's posole had not yet been nixtamalized (outer shell removed), along with the fact that it was frozen, worked in his favor to preserve the freshness and quality of the corn.

Rob, I just thought of a detail I hadn't asked you before. When you thawed the frozen posole to what extent was the corn hydrated, was it closer to fully dried or fresh? And, had the corn already been treated such that all you had to do was rub off the outer shell, or did you have to include a step involving treatment with lime?

[gfron1]

The posole already had the lime. It wasn't dry by any means, but it was hard. The hardness reminded me of when I've made posole soup where the corn was fully rehydrated, but again, with the skin. So...hard if you pinched it between your fingers, but not between the teeth - surely there's a culinary term for that description

[Jmahl]

When we did it, the kernels were damp after draining but not dried in any way. My inlaws have been growing their own corn and making fresh tortillas every day for generations so you can be sure they know what they are doing.

Keep experimenting. It is worth the effort.

Jmahl

[rancho_gordo]

Somone PM'd me about this thread. I wish I'd known sooner.

From my experience:

Maseca is a fine product. Until you are really skilled at tamales I would recommend you use the tamal version (as opposed to the finer tortilla version) of Maseca. You have plenty of other things to worry about making tamales, like sourcing good manteca and folding techniques.

If you insist on making your own masa, you need to find large field corn that is dried, soak it in water and Cal and then rub the skins off and then grind it (while moist). This is great but it's also for channel swimmers, if you know what I mean.

My posole product is known as "prepared hominy". You soak it and simmer it and it explodes like a flower and is beyond delicious in a stew known by the same name. It is from the American southwest and indigenous to the Native Americans. I've never seen anything like it in Mexico. They tend to use a bigger kernel and more often than not, the product is canned. I think the posole is a nicer product and has a nicer "tooth" to it. The kernels aren't obscenly large, either. In Mexixo, pozole (with a "z") refers only to the dish. In the US, posole (with an "s") refers to the dish and to hominy. But unless you are an expert at masa textures for tamales, I wouldn't go this route.

If you to have a tortilla factory near you, you will be able to buy masa para tamales, the coarser grain, but double check. There's a better than good chance they're using Maseca and then you might as well do it yourself.

[andiesenji]

I knew you would have the answer, Rancho gordo: I suggested Gabriel PM you because your info in all the earlier threads that discussed tamales was so helpful.

[andiesenji]

My neighbors, who are from Durango, Mexico, used to use a hand-cranked meat grinder. Now they have a Rival that I gave them.

First, She soaks the dry corn until the skin softens and begins to split, then dumps it into a bag that looks like burlap and lays the bag on an outside table and sort of massages the bag to loosen the skin from the kernels. She then dumps it into a big pan and washes and loosens the remaining skins, which float to the top and are skimmed off.

She dumps the corn into a big colander and starts putting it through the grinder with the large-hole plate. When the batch is finished, she switches to the plate with the small holes and grinds it again.

She gave me a bowl full yesterday - when I get home I will take a photo so you can see the consistency.

[Gabriel Lewis]

Thanks for your input everyone, I have been very busy lately and haven't had as much time for cooking as I might like. However, I am no relatively caught and have turned my attention back to tamales.

I've decided to take Rancho Gordo's excellent advice and take a bottom-up approach rather than a top down. In my zeal sometimes I get obsessed with perfecting every aspect of a process and lose sight of important details like learning the specifics of the technique first.

Unfortunately, maseca para tamales doesn't seem to be available in my area. The white bags are plentiful, but the pink bags seem nowhere to be found. I will check agian at my local tortilla factory to see if they have any masa para tamales, but I don't really want to go the pre-prepared route.

andies: Thanks so much for writing about your neighbours procedure. As I said I will make them with maseca just to get it done once, but once I have attained basic mastery I think I will turn my attention to the masa, and I always welcome any information I can get! Luckily for me, someone was kind enough to bring this thread to rancho's attention (somehow your earlier suggestion slipped by me or was forgotten). I might add I have nothing but great admiration and respect for all the things I've seen you do or talk about through reading old e-gullet threads.

If you insist on making your own masa, you need to find large field corn that is dried, soak it in water and Cal and then rub the skins off and then grind it (while moist). This is great but it's also for channel swimmers, if you know what I mean.

Maybe it is because I have never acutally done this, or maybe I'm just crazy, but strangely enough this doesn't sound that difficult to me. What exactly is so difficult about this? It took me a long time to figure out exactly what happens in the process of making fresh masa from reading different bits and pieces, but now that I do understand it seems relatively simple. I know that if I knew somewhere I could get ready access to the right corn here in montreal I would jump on it.

You have plenty of other things to worry about making tamales, like sourcing good manteca and folding techniques.

My manteca is fairly good I think; I get fat from a local pig farmer who raises excellent pigs, and then render it myself at home. Is the savory lard (amber-coloured when rendered and still liquid) the most appropriate kind for tamales?

You mention folding techniques. I recall reading that one person whips their masa in a mixer first to make it light in fluffy, and another recipe specifies kneading until a chunk of masa "floats in cold water". Would you be willing to talk a little bit more about the different techniques or perhaps provide a description of one of the most basic ones?

I hope I'm not coming off as obnoxious, I like to really go into the details, and I know some people don't feel the same way. Obviously, I am a tamal-making virgin but I'd like to gather as much information as I can before I embark. I want to start with the most basic, open ended version of tamales with each element executed to the best of my ability.

I really appreciate any and all help your willing to give, but as you may have guessed, I feed on details.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Gabriel Lewis (log)

[esperanza]

If you insist on making your own masa, you need to find large field corn that is dried, soak it in water and Cal and then rub the skins off and then grind it (while moist). This is great but it's also for channel swimmers, if you know what I mean.

Maybe it is because I have never acutally done this, or maybe I'm just crazy, but strangely enough this doesn't sound that difficult to me. What exactly is so difficult about this? It took me a long time to figure out exactly what happens in the process of making fresh masa from reading different bits and pieces, but now that I do understand it seems relatively simple. I know that if I knew somewhere I could get ready access to the right corn here in montreal I would jump on it.

You have plenty of other things to worry about making tamales, like sourcing good manteca and folding techniques.

My manteca is fairly good I think; I get fat from a local pig farmer who raises excellent pigs , and then render it myself at home. Is the savory lard (amber-coloured when rendered and still liquid) the most appropriate kind for tamales?

Obviously, I am a tamale-virgin...

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It isn't so much that making tamales is difficult, it's just extremely time-and-energy consuming. That's why Rancho compared it most aptly to swimming the channel.

Here in Mexico, the process of making tamales is usually shared among several women during the course of a day or two: one day to make the nixtamal (the cooked field corn), another day to grind it and prepare the tamales.

Your manteca sounds perfect, how wonderful that you can make it yourself.

And FYI (because I am a picky stickler), the singular of tamales is tamal. One tamal, two tamales.

Muchísima suerte con el proyecto!

Edited November 6, 2006 by esperanza (log)