• Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

  • product-image-quickten.png.a40203b506711f7664fc62024e54a584.pngDid you know that these all-volunteer forums are operated by the 501(c)3 not-for-profit Society for Culinary Arts & Letters? This holiday season, consider a tax-deductible Quick Ten Bucks to support the eG Forums and help us remain completely advertising-free. Thanks to all those who have donated so far!

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
merstar

Pernigotti Cocoa Powder

23 posts in this topic

Do you recommend it, and how does it compare with other Dutched cocoa powders, such as Droste, Bensdorp, etc?


There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've used it at home and I love it. Much darker and richer tasting than Droste (I haven't seen Bensdorp). It is dutch processed, though it doesn't say so on the label, so you have to take that into consideration when using in a recipe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neil, thanks for your comments re Pernigotti cocoa powder (esp. the caveat that it be used properly as a Dutch-processed cocoa!). I must purchase a small (2-lb.) sack and use it in custards. For many years, I used Droste predominantly, Bensdorp occasionally, but for the past 3 years, mostly van Houten because my provisioner supplies it at a consistently affordable price.

Would someone please post their comment(s) on Scharffen Berger cocoa powder?


"Dinner is theater. Ah, but dessert is the fireworks!" ~ Paul Bocuse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've used it at home and I love it. Much darker and richer tasting than Droste (I haven't seen Bensdorp). It is dutch processed, though it doesn't say so on the label, so you have to take that into consideration when using in a recipe.

Thanks, nightscotsman, I need to check this one out.


Edited by merstar (log)

There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Neil, thanks for your comments re Pernigotti cocoa powder (esp. the caveat that it be used properly as a Dutch-processed cocoa!).  I must purchase a small (2-lb.) sack and use it in custards.  For many years, I used Droste predominantly, Bensdorp occasionally, but for the past 3 years, mostly van Houten because my provisioner supplies it at a consistently affordable price. 

Would someone please post their comment(s) on Scharffen Berger cocoa powder?

One word, EXCELLENT. It has a very, very deep, dark, rich chocolate taste with the right amount of intensity -it's the best natural cocoa powder I have found so far.

BTW, how does Van Houten compare with Droste?


There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"This is the age, among things, of chocolate." ~ J.B. Priestly, English Journey

Van Houten cocoa is manufactured in Norderstedt, Germany. Like Droste, van Leer, and Valhrona, it is a high-fat, Dutch-process cocoa powder. (Whereas organic cocoa – such as Rapunzel Kokoa – is, to my knowledge, generally marketted as a low-fat product. Dagoba doesn't seem to specify this characteristic for its cocoa.)

In 1928, the Dutch chemist Coenraad J. van Houten first produced cocoa by inventing the screw press to extract all the cocoa butter out of chocolate. He used "alkaline salts" to remove the acidity and bitterness, which is why alkali-processed cocoa is also called Dutch chocolate.

"Van Houten's inexhaustible patience and skill revolutionized the chocolate industry. It led to the manufacture of what we now know as cocoa powder, which in van Houten's time was called 'cocoa essence.' [He] sold his rights ten years after he took out the patent, and the machine came into general use. Among the first customers were the Frys and the Cadburys, ever eager to outdo each other."

C. Atkinson, M. Banks, C. France, and C. McFadden: Chocolate & Coffee, (New York, 2002), p. 20.

I would appraise van Houten as being similar to Droste, but slightly darker, with good strength & great depth of flavor.

As for top-grade, high-fat natural cocoas, Scharffen Berger is commonly rated one of the best. Last winter, an eminent chef in my city told a friend of mine (he was a dinner guest at her home) that he considered Michel Cluizel "Dark" the premium high-fat, natural process cocoa in the world.


Edited by Redsugar (log)

"Dinner is theater. Ah, but dessert is the fireworks!" ~ Paul Bocuse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info, Red.

Last winter, an eminent chef in my city told a friend of mine (he was a dinner guest at her home) that he considered Michel Cluizel "Dark" the premium high-fat, natural process cocoa in the world.

What exactly is the meaning of "natural process cocoa" as opposed to "natural cocoa?" I assume Michel Cluizel is a Dutch Processed cocoa from the description on www.chocosphere.com: "Dark" (Reddish) Cocoa Powder."


There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have a question: Anybody heard of DeRoche?

I have been using Valrhona for the past year, but my regular shop is currently out of stock and I really really really really want World Peace Cookies.


May

Totally More-ish: The New and Improved Foodblog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was recently looking for cocoa powder advice from the chocoholic geniuses at seventypercent.com.

One tip I got was that the higher-fat cocoa powders are delicous but quite perishable; you can't keep them around as long or they lose a lot of flavor.

Another point was that high fat cocoas can diminish volume in desserts where the cocoa is folded into whipped egg whites.

There seems to be some consensus that the Cluizel cocoa kicks ass, but that it may not be available in anything more reasonable than 3kg bags. If anyone knows how to get a reasonable volume of this, I'd love to hear it.

Or we could chip in and split a bunch. 8oz would be good for me (it's high fat/low shelf life). A $77 3kg bag would make 13 8oz+ portions for $6 each.

I'd also like to try the Pernigotti. Anyone know if that's available locally in NYC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was recently looking for cocoa powder advice from the chocoholic geniuses at seventypercent.com.

One tip I got was that the higher-fat cocoa powders are delicous but quite perishable; you can't keep them around as long or they lose a lot of flavor.

Another point was that high fat cocoas can diminish volume in desserts where the cocoa is folded into whipped egg whites.

Why would it be more perishable? If regular chocolate BLOOMS its still good to eat and isnt spoiled...

And I guess thats why my Chocolate Angel Food Cake didnt rise as high as plain, I added Valrhona.


Wawa Sizzli FTW!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was recently looking for cocoa powder advice from the chocoholic geniuses at seventypercent.com.

One tip I got was that the higher-fat cocoa powders are delicous but quite perishable; you can't keep them around as long or they lose a lot of flavor.

Another point was that high fat cocoas can diminish volume in desserts where the cocoa is folded into whipped egg whites.

There seems to be some consensus that the Cluizel cocoa kicks ass, but that it may not be available in anything more reasonable than 3kg bags. If anyone knows how to get a reasonable volume of this, I'd love to hear it.

Or we could chip in and split a bunch. 8oz would be good for me (it's high fat/low shelf life). A $77 3kg bag would make 13  8oz+ portions for $6 each.

I'd also like to try the Pernigotti. Anyone know if that's available locally in NYC?

I love seventypercent.com. Interesting info on high fat cocoas.

You can find Pernigotti at Williams-Sonoma.


There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I just picked up some Pernigotti ($12 for 8 oz; thank you very much for allowing me to be your bitch yet again, Messieurs Williams and Sonoma).

Since we now know it's somewhat perishable, does anyone have thoughts on storage? I used to keep cocoa in the pantry but now I'm considering sealing the container in a big ziplock and putting it in the fridge.

Good idea? Bad?


Edited by paulraphael (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i like pernigotti a lot, it makes great mochas and is very chocolatey without being assaulting. very smooth and velvety. i also like callebaut cocoa for it's similar richness and dark velvety color.

i like to smirk when I used to see new bakers come into our shared kitchen space with a big bag of hersheys, and then wonder why their chocolate cakes don't taste chocolatey enough. then i'd show them the two cocoas side by side and they'd understand why since hershey's is like beige compared to good cocoa. the next day the bag would be sitting in the entryway with a big "free" written on it.


Stephanie Crocker

Sugar Bakery + Cafe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I saw a conversation on cocoa powder and you know I can't miss out on this. My favorite cocoa powder for a long time has been "Cocoa Rouge" cocoa powder from Guittard. I am biased because of my relationship with Guittard but I have actually used the cocoa powder since culinary school before I was afiliated with them and have loved it since the first time using it. It is a dutched cocoa with a nice brown/red color with a 22/24% fat content and is just beautiful in baked goods and in hot cocoa...

UM UM


Edited by aguynamedrobert (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Everyone,

I have heard the name Pernigotti a few times here and there but know very little about them. They sell Cocoa under that name and I was wondering if they made chocolate as well? Also, Do they manufacturer it or do they buy it and just market it?

Any help would be great!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are a "famed Italian chocolate maker" according to ChefShop - they carry the cocoa. Located in Firenze, uh, Florence.

http://www.pernigotti.it/

Oh, I've had the chocolates in the US too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Similar Content

    • By Loubika
      Hi everyone,
       
      I'm a little pastry chief in France, still learning and really passionate. It's been five months that I did'nt studiy or practise and I miss that so much. I never stop talking about this. I decided to travel in south america to learn everything I can. I'm actually in Central Colombia, and I will travel to Ecuador, Galapagos, Peru, Bolivia and maybe a little bit more if I want to. I have time until march, more or less.
       
      My project is to go in the farms and meet the people who grow up the raw material I use for make my pastries, Talk to them and see the plantation would be really helpfull for me to understand how does it works. If people need, I'm volunteer for work in exchange with accomodation and food for a few days. My spanish is not good yet, but I'm learning and sometimes it's more funny to not speak the same language. I'm interested about everything, exotic fruits, citrus, coffee, cacao, sesame, pepper, spices...
       
      If some of you is, knows or works with farmers or pastry chiefs in those countries, I would be glad to meet you/them and learn everthing about the work. We can exchange good recipe too.
       
      Thank you very much,
      Loubna
       
       
    • By Darienne
      Yesterday I made my familiar go-to simple lime/cream cheese pie with one egg, some milk, lime juice & zest, etc, covered with a dark chocolate ganache: heavy cream, a dollop of butter.  It's in the fridge covered with a plastic topper but I can cover it with plastic wrap or aluminum foil.

      Today's lunch guest is not coming...onslaught of sleet, freezing rain, and now snow...oh goodie...winter's here...  Now she is slated for next Thursday.  Is there any possibility that the pie can last that long and not poison or at least revolt us?

      Thanks.
    • By LucyInAust
      Hello,
       
      I've been asked to make a cake with an edible film strip style ribbon (NOT made of fondant) and I'm trying to work out a solution given limited time (2 weeks) and limited skills (a lifetime's worth of lack of decorating skills and attention to detail!).
       
      Ideally I'd love to use a chocolate transfer sheet ... but the only ones I can find are in the USA (I'm in Australia) and the shipping time makes that impractical.  I've been googling and not seen a decent alternative that I think I can do (actually I haven't even found something that is edible that I think looks good, even from professionals!!)!  Fondant would be the most obvious solution but I've been given the instructions of no fondant (but maybe they wouldn't notice a strip?!) ... but chocolate seems possible.
       
      Some ideas I've thought of and would love feedback ...
      Could I use old film negatives as a transfer?  Cut out the frames and then use the strips?   (am I going to kill anyone with chemicals?!!) Could I create acetone strips by trying to stamp/cut out something that sort of looks like a film strip?  Use it as a stencil instead? Piping on to acetate using an image behind as a guide?  I can't say I have very steady hands so am thinking it would be very wonky?!!! If I did the outline in dark chocolate would I need a white chocolate layer to make it transfer onto a buttercream cake?  
      I have a chocolate tempering machine, most likely to be using Callebaut 54% but could use Lindt 70%/85%/90%.
       
      I've really only used transfer sheets directly on to dipped chocolate, and acetate to create random curls for decorations ... I'm wondering about the logistics of getting the chocolate on the strips, keeping it shaped for the cake (I think the cake is square ... but maybe it might be round?!) and also transferring them on to the cake?
       
      (back up plan ... plain ribbon!!!)
       
      Would love any advice!  Thanks!!
    • By curls
      Looking for your opinions and experiences... I am planning to put some wire shelving in my chocolate & confections kitchen. The kitchen has a concrete floor. This shelving will hold ingredients, colored cocoa butters, and packaging. Wondering if I should get casters for this shelving... what are your thoughts on this oh so important question?  ;-)
    • By DianaB
      I've used Valrhona Ivoire white chocolate as a base for various ganache recipes for some time after failing to create a good ganache with other white chocolate including Callebaut, a brand I otherwise like.  Valrhona is expensive compared to other brands available here in England but Vente Privée offers it at a good discount several times each year.  There is a Valrhona sale this week: 
      https://secure.uk.vente-privee.com/ns/en-gb/operation/57934/classic/3642874/catalog
       
      That link is to the English site but I know the company operates in other countries. You need to become a member to buy from the site, not sure why but it is free and you aren't obliged to buy anything.  
       
      I've already placed an order, popular products sell out fast.  Since ordering I have read various posts in the Pastry and Baking thread that have left me wondering if I should be using Opalys as my white chocolate rather than Ivoire.
       
      Do any of you have experience of both variants of Valrhona's white chocolate?  I would be grateful for any advice you can provide on using them in baking or chocolate making.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.