• Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
merstar

Pernigotti Cocoa Powder

23 posts in this topic

Do you recommend it, and how does it compare with other Dutched cocoa powders, such as Droste, Bensdorp, etc?


There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've used it at home and I love it. Much darker and richer tasting than Droste (I haven't seen Bensdorp). It is dutch processed, though it doesn't say so on the label, so you have to take that into consideration when using in a recipe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neil, thanks for your comments re Pernigotti cocoa powder (esp. the caveat that it be used properly as a Dutch-processed cocoa!). I must purchase a small (2-lb.) sack and use it in custards. For many years, I used Droste predominantly, Bensdorp occasionally, but for the past 3 years, mostly van Houten because my provisioner supplies it at a consistently affordable price.

Would someone please post their comment(s) on Scharffen Berger cocoa powder?


"Dinner is theater. Ah, but dessert is the fireworks!" ~ Paul Bocuse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've used it at home and I love it. Much darker and richer tasting than Droste (I haven't seen Bensdorp). It is dutch processed, though it doesn't say so on the label, so you have to take that into consideration when using in a recipe.

Thanks, nightscotsman, I need to check this one out.


Edited by merstar (log)

There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Neil, thanks for your comments re Pernigotti cocoa powder (esp. the caveat that it be used properly as a Dutch-processed cocoa!).  I must purchase a small (2-lb.) sack and use it in custards.  For many years, I used Droste predominantly, Bensdorp occasionally, but for the past 3 years, mostly van Houten because my provisioner supplies it at a consistently affordable price. 

Would someone please post their comment(s) on Scharffen Berger cocoa powder?

One word, EXCELLENT. It has a very, very deep, dark, rich chocolate taste with the right amount of intensity -it's the best natural cocoa powder I have found so far.

BTW, how does Van Houten compare with Droste?


There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"This is the age, among things, of chocolate." ~ J.B. Priestly, English Journey

Van Houten cocoa is manufactured in Norderstedt, Germany. Like Droste, van Leer, and Valhrona, it is a high-fat, Dutch-process cocoa powder. (Whereas organic cocoa – such as Rapunzel Kokoa – is, to my knowledge, generally marketted as a low-fat product. Dagoba doesn't seem to specify this characteristic for its cocoa.)

In 1928, the Dutch chemist Coenraad J. van Houten first produced cocoa by inventing the screw press to extract all the cocoa butter out of chocolate. He used "alkaline salts" to remove the acidity and bitterness, which is why alkali-processed cocoa is also called Dutch chocolate.

"Van Houten's inexhaustible patience and skill revolutionized the chocolate industry. It led to the manufacture of what we now know as cocoa powder, which in van Houten's time was called 'cocoa essence.' [He] sold his rights ten years after he took out the patent, and the machine came into general use. Among the first customers were the Frys and the Cadburys, ever eager to outdo each other."

C. Atkinson, M. Banks, C. France, and C. McFadden: Chocolate & Coffee, (New York, 2002), p. 20.

I would appraise van Houten as being similar to Droste, but slightly darker, with good strength & great depth of flavor.

As for top-grade, high-fat natural cocoas, Scharffen Berger is commonly rated one of the best. Last winter, an eminent chef in my city told a friend of mine (he was a dinner guest at her home) that he considered Michel Cluizel "Dark" the premium high-fat, natural process cocoa in the world.


Edited by Redsugar (log)

"Dinner is theater. Ah, but dessert is the fireworks!" ~ Paul Bocuse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info, Red.

Last winter, an eminent chef in my city told a friend of mine (he was a dinner guest at her home) that he considered Michel Cluizel "Dark" the premium high-fat, natural process cocoa in the world.

What exactly is the meaning of "natural process cocoa" as opposed to "natural cocoa?" I assume Michel Cluizel is a Dutch Processed cocoa from the description on www.chocosphere.com: "Dark" (Reddish) Cocoa Powder."


There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have a question: Anybody heard of DeRoche?

I have been using Valrhona for the past year, but my regular shop is currently out of stock and I really really really really want World Peace Cookies.


May

Totally More-ish: The New and Improved Foodblog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was recently looking for cocoa powder advice from the chocoholic geniuses at seventypercent.com.

One tip I got was that the higher-fat cocoa powders are delicous but quite perishable; you can't keep them around as long or they lose a lot of flavor.

Another point was that high fat cocoas can diminish volume in desserts where the cocoa is folded into whipped egg whites.

There seems to be some consensus that the Cluizel cocoa kicks ass, but that it may not be available in anything more reasonable than 3kg bags. If anyone knows how to get a reasonable volume of this, I'd love to hear it.

Or we could chip in and split a bunch. 8oz would be good for me (it's high fat/low shelf life). A $77 3kg bag would make 13 8oz+ portions for $6 each.

I'd also like to try the Pernigotti. Anyone know if that's available locally in NYC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was recently looking for cocoa powder advice from the chocoholic geniuses at seventypercent.com.

One tip I got was that the higher-fat cocoa powders are delicous but quite perishable; you can't keep them around as long or they lose a lot of flavor.

Another point was that high fat cocoas can diminish volume in desserts where the cocoa is folded into whipped egg whites.

Why would it be more perishable? If regular chocolate BLOOMS its still good to eat and isnt spoiled...

And I guess thats why my Chocolate Angel Food Cake didnt rise as high as plain, I added Valrhona.


Wawa Sizzli FTW!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was recently looking for cocoa powder advice from the chocoholic geniuses at seventypercent.com.

One tip I got was that the higher-fat cocoa powders are delicous but quite perishable; you can't keep them around as long or they lose a lot of flavor.

Another point was that high fat cocoas can diminish volume in desserts where the cocoa is folded into whipped egg whites.

There seems to be some consensus that the Cluizel cocoa kicks ass, but that it may not be available in anything more reasonable than 3kg bags. If anyone knows how to get a reasonable volume of this, I'd love to hear it.

Or we could chip in and split a bunch. 8oz would be good for me (it's high fat/low shelf life). A $77 3kg bag would make 13  8oz+ portions for $6 each.

I'd also like to try the Pernigotti. Anyone know if that's available locally in NYC?

I love seventypercent.com. Interesting info on high fat cocoas.

You can find Pernigotti at Williams-Sonoma.


There's nothing better than a good friend, except a good friend with CHOCOLATE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I just picked up some Pernigotti ($12 for 8 oz; thank you very much for allowing me to be your bitch yet again, Messieurs Williams and Sonoma).

Since we now know it's somewhat perishable, does anyone have thoughts on storage? I used to keep cocoa in the pantry but now I'm considering sealing the container in a big ziplock and putting it in the fridge.

Good idea? Bad?


Edited by paulraphael (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i like pernigotti a lot, it makes great mochas and is very chocolatey without being assaulting. very smooth and velvety. i also like callebaut cocoa for it's similar richness and dark velvety color.

i like to smirk when I used to see new bakers come into our shared kitchen space with a big bag of hersheys, and then wonder why their chocolate cakes don't taste chocolatey enough. then i'd show them the two cocoas side by side and they'd understand why since hershey's is like beige compared to good cocoa. the next day the bag would be sitting in the entryway with a big "free" written on it.


Stephanie Crocker

Sugar Bakery + Cafe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I saw a conversation on cocoa powder and you know I can't miss out on this. My favorite cocoa powder for a long time has been "Cocoa Rouge" cocoa powder from Guittard. I am biased because of my relationship with Guittard but I have actually used the cocoa powder since culinary school before I was afiliated with them and have loved it since the first time using it. It is a dutched cocoa with a nice brown/red color with a 22/24% fat content and is just beautiful in baked goods and in hot cocoa...

UM UM


Edited by aguynamedrobert (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Everyone,

I have heard the name Pernigotti a few times here and there but know very little about them. They sell Cocoa under that name and I was wondering if they made chocolate as well? Also, Do they manufacturer it or do they buy it and just market it?

Any help would be great!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are a "famed Italian chocolate maker" according to ChefShop - they carry the cocoa. Located in Firenze, uh, Florence.

http://www.pernigotti.it/

Oh, I've had the chocolates in the US too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Similar Content

    • By curls
      I have been looking for self-sealing plastic bags like Soma uses for chocolate bars. Interested in a rectangle vs. the squares Soma is using. Have not found anything at Gleurp or Nashville Wraps (but I may be using the wrong search terms).  Anyone know where to find these bags (in a variety of sizes) that have a flap with a bit of adhesive on the end for sealing the package?
       
      Any other chocolate bar packaging ideas that don't require going custom?
       

    • By pastrygirl
      Do you ever end up with ganache that reminds you of extra-heavy mayo?  I was winging it today, testing batches that set up ok but grainy, then weirldy flexible. The 60% i usually use is 39% cocoa butter, but in this batch I used 72%, which is 45% fat.  I also made some other changes but was trying to keep a similar ratio of liquid to chocolate.  The 72% ganache is far thicker than the 60% ever is - it probably needs more cream or a splash of booze, right?  Arg, I should know this!
       
      I got annoyed and left the slab out to do whatever it will overnight - cross your fingers that it is either use-able or save-able tomorrow!
    • By beacheschef
      I'm making truffles for a wholesale customer who will be distributing them to their guests on a daily basis. I've been working on my recipes for quite a while, and have some good recipes for a number of flavors. Since the customer base is pretty varied, I'm not adding any alcohol to the ganache centers. The customer is pleased, but has asked me to expand my flavors to a few that they suggested.
      I've been working on a mint center with a white chocolate ganache and am infusing the cream with fresh mint leaves. No matter how much mint I add, the mint taste is not pronounced enough. I've also infused the mint leaves in the cream for up to 6 hours before adding the cream to the chocolate, without pleasing results.
      I've also been playing around with a fresh ginger ganache and am interested in lemongrass and other natural flavorings. Since I don't know if the customer will be pleased with the end result, I'd rather not buy the flavored compounds (I've used the mint flavor compound in a previous job) to enhance the flavor until I get a better result using the fresh ingredients.
      Do you have some advice for using natural herbs and spices to flavor ganache without using extracts, alcohol, or compounds?
    • By RuthWells
      I know this question gets asked frequently, and I've done my research, but I can't believe that I can't find a less expensive option for packaging to hold 2 truffle-sized bonbons.  The two options I liked (from Nashville Wraps and BoxandWrap) come to over $1.60 each when factoring in shipping.  There is no way to price them at that cost.  Am I missing some options out there?
    • By RuthWells
      I know the gold standard for storing molded chocolate bon bons is to vacuum-pack lightly, then freeze.  Any suggestions for an overly-enthusiastic home chocolatier with an abundance of inventory and no vacuum sealer?  My local coffe shop is selling my wares, but not as quickly as I've been producing them!
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.