HK Food

[chengb02]

Not sure if any of you are Slate readers, but the past two days there has been a "diary" on HK. Today's entry includes a lot about food, including the comment:

"That's what makes it different from the big cities on the mainland, even the ones like Shanghai and Beijing that are booming with new money and businesses. You can't stand on a corner in Shanghai and choose food from six different regions of China. Hong Kong is the Chinese version of New York, my hometown. It's not a grafting of East and West, that old British colonial cliché. It's the capital of the Chinese overseas diaspora, the world's great Chinese urban cosmopolitan center."

I am wondering about what those who have spent extended amounts of time in HK (and hopefully the mainland too) feel about this. My impression is that its a bit of an overstatement, I know that in Beijing, you can not only find good Chinese food from all over the country, but also foreign foods from all over the world in a not too large radius from most locations in the center of the city. What impression do others have?

For the full article, here's the address

[Yuki]

The comment about HK as a food city is certainly true but I am not too sure about Beijing and Shanghai. My last visit to Shanghai and Beijing was at least 10 years ago but from what I heard from people, they are still behind HK's food culture.

I went to Guangdong this summer and ate many meals during my 3 days trip. The quality of Chinese food is very high but I did not see any Western restaurant on a busy street and mall(unless you consider Mcdonald and KFC as restaurant). Maybe I am not in the right place but it seems like most people go out for Chinese meal rather than food from around the world. I don't think ethnic food is

available to the general public yet, since prices are too high and not enough locations.

It is true that lots of Hong Konger are obsess with food....... you could see line up at popular restaurants and shop. The magazine "Drink Eat Man Woman" is an essential part for planning family's weekend activities and meal. Even though I don't live in Hong Kong now, I still read that magazine and copy down the restaurants that I would like to try. Phone calls to relatives in Hong Kong makes me extremely jealous since they are raving about the new dishes and new restaurants they discovered. Also, there are so many food I can not get here..........

[ecr]

Regional Chinese food has always been available in Hong Kong but not *all* of it has always been good and authentic. When I lived in HK 10 yrs ago we were hard pressed to find a Sichuan restaurant that had authentically fiery food (I remember mapo dofu completely devoid of huajiao)--- it was toned down to Hong Kong tastes. That's not the case now, and I think it's partly the result of increased mainland-to-Hong Kong migration, the growing number of mainland tourists in Hong Kong, the increased interest among Hong Kongers in all things mainland .... in general, the closer ties that have developed betw. Hong Kong and the rest of China since 1997. There's much more interest in Hong Kong now in foods of *all* the regions of China (not just the southern and eastern regions, where most of Hong Kong's original Chinese immigrants came from) than there was 10 yrs ago.

You could see this sort of thing in China's larger cities earlier in the last decade. Good Sichuan food was pretty hard to find in Guangzhou in 1984. By 1994, however, there was a sufficient number of Sichuanese living in the Guangzhou area (and several Sichuan municipalities had established trade offices there) that it was not that difficult to find an authentic mapo dofu.

[Gary Soup]

You can't stand on a corner in Shanghai and choose food from six different regions of China.

I also think that would be easier to do in Flushing, Queens or Monterey Park, California than in Hong Kong.

I spent three months in HK in 1997, and was not overwhelmed with the food choices. Very good (and very expensive) food can be found at the high end, but then it's generally Cantonese. In the affordable range, it's definitely a seller's market. Even the most atrocious hole-in-the-wall will have a line waiting to get in at 7:00 PM; there's little motive for putting out anyting more than a desultory effort.

If you really look you can find a good, reasonably priced Shanghainese restaurant, but they don't exactly dot every street corner (and there's nothing particularly Shanghainese about cold, sweet dou jiang or fish wrapped in sticky rice). Most of the Shanghainese in HK have been there since 1950, and would have forgotten what traditional Shanghainese food was were it not for a few places like Wu Kong to remind them, and I'd bet the same is true of Beijingers, Sichuanese and others. It's not much easier nowadays for mainland Chinese to emigrate to HK than to other countries, and if those who do are generally treated with condescension at best, or (more often) contempt.

Hong Kongese seem to be particularly parochial about Chinese food, and for relief from a constant diet of HK Cantonese food it seemed far easier to find other Asian cuisines (Singaporean/Malaysian, Thai, Korean Barbecue, even the mythical "Hainan" food than other mainland Chinese cuisines.

HK is very good for street food and dirt-cheap seafood at the food stalls, but it's no showplace for regional Chinese cuisines.

[HKDave]

The Slate article is just plain wrong on that point. There is far better Chinese regional cuisine in the mainland than there is in Hong Kong.

Mainland cites have the demand (in the form of internal migrants) for regional cooking, and skilled regional chefs who work for peanuts. Hong Kong lacks the demand, lacks the chefs, and most regional cooking here is watered down to suit local tastes. I can't think of any street corner here where I can stand and choose authentic food from 3 different regions of China, let alone 6.

It's getting better now, but there's still no comparison.

Hong Kong isn't even the best place in the world for Cantonese cooking. Vancouver, maybe, where you'll get better quality ingedients prepared with at least the same skill at 1/3 the price. There's good food here, to be sure. There certainly are enough restaurants to choose from. But thanks to extortionate rents, Hong Kong is an expensive food city that has some highlights, and a lot of pricey mediocrity.

HK certainly does have a wider variety of non-Chinese restaurants than anywhere in the mainland, or most of Asia for that matter.

Edit: grammer

Edited September 16, 2004 by HKDave (log)

[chengb02]

my original thoughts on the article have been more or less confirmed by Gary and HKDave. I figured she was somebody who hadn't spent too much time on the mainland and simply made the statements out of her longer time in HK or just as a pro-HK attitude. I was especially suspicious when she brought up the saying/greeting "??????“ (ni chi le fan ma) and then used the literal translation...This was a very common greeting on the mainland, too, at least in Beijing, though nowadays you don't hear it quite as much. I think the great thing in any large Chinese city (but this is mainly coming from experience in Beijing, and to a lesser extent Shanghai) is that there is an unbelievable diversity of Chinese regional cuisine that can be found and is accessibly priced for the majority of people. Much of what she describes seems to be more about Chinese culture and the importance of food, elements that can be found anywhere in the world, not things that are unique to HK...Well, maybe she will continue on the food topic in today's entry...

[SteveW]

I think Toronto has supplanted Vancouver for Chinese food in North America(mainly talking about Cantonese cooking). My brother who has lived in Hong Kong, Vancouver, & Toronto, certainly thinks Toronto has better Chinese food than anywhere else in North America. His views are echoed by others. In Hong Kong, because of the very high rents, almost all the top Chinese restaurants are located in hotels.

-Steve

The Slate article is just plain wrong on that point.  There is far better Chinese regional cuisine in the mainland than there is in Hong Kong. 

Hong Kong isn't even the best place in the world for Cantonese cooking.  Vancouver, maybe, where you'll get better quality ingedients prepared with at least the same skill at 1/3 the price.  There's good food here, to be sure.  There certainly are enough restaurants to choose from.  But thanks to extortionate rents, Hong Kong is an expensive food city that has some highlights, and a lot of pricey mediocrity.

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[Pan]

I was especially suspicious when she brought up the saying/greeting "??????“ (ni chi le fan ma) and then used the literal translation...This was a very common greeting on the mainland, too, at least in Beijing, though nowadays you don't hear it quite as much. I think the great thing in any large Chinese city (but this is mainly coming from experience in Beijing, and to a lesser extent Shanghai) is that there is an unbelievable diversity of Chinese regional cuisine that can be found and is accessibly priced for the majority of people. Much of what she describes seems to be more about Chinese culture and the importance of food, elements that can be found anywhere in the world, not things that are unique to HK

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Indeed. The importance placed on food and use of some version of "Did you eat yet?" as a greeting extend well beyond China. Have a look at this thread.

Edited September 16, 2004 by Pan (log)

[Yuki]

Actually, I think food in Hong Kong is not very expensive. But you got to know where you are going and constantly ask people for advices.

A seafood dinner for 9 cost around $600 CDN, and included fresh abalone, soft shelled crab, huge prawns, a specially caught fish cooked 3 ways, scallops, and other ingredients.

A dinner for 4 in a lower/middle class Cantonese restaurant cost around $25 CDN, and we ordered 6 dishes. We found this restaurant from the magazine, "drink eat man woman". Don't expect extraordinary meal here, this is for when-mom-don't-feel-like-cooking.

A lunch outside in a fast food type place cost around $5.00 CND for a beef curry with rice and a drink(coffee, milk tea, or pop).

[Gary Soup]

Actually, I think food in Hong Kong is not very expensive. But you got to know where you are going and constantly ask people for advices. 

A seafood dinner for 9 cost around $600 CDN, and included fresh abalone, soft shelled crab, huge prawns, a specially caught fish cooked 3 ways, scallops, and other ingredients. 

A dinner for 4 in a lower/middle class Cantonese restaurant cost around $25 CDN, and we ordered 6 dishes. We found this restaurant from the magazine, "drink eat man woman". Don't expect extraordinary meal here, this is for when-mom-don't-feel-like-cooking.

A lunch outside in a fast food type place cost around $5.00 CND for a beef curry with rice and a drink(coffee, milk tea, or pop).

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I'd agree that there are bargains available if you know where to find them, especially for seafood, if you don't mind that it is caught in the waters of the "Fragrant Harbor." I didn't, and quickly learned about Cheung Chau Island, where you can literally watch your fish all the way from the fishing boat into the pot, then enjoy it al fresco, with a great sea view, for a pittance.

The Slate article, however, was trying to impute an accessible cosmopolitanism that doesn't exist. Did you find a corner to stand on where you could find food from six regions of China? If so where was it? (Probably Causeway Bay, where you're most likely to find a six-cornered intersection .)

Edited September 17, 2004 by Gary Soup (log)

[hzrt8w]

I'd agree that there are bargains available if you know where to find them, especially for seafood, if you don't mind that it is caught in the waters of the "Fragrant Harbor." 

The seafood sold in Hong Kong is not caught in Victoria Harbor. Those eatible fish and other creatures were long gone. Fish are caught mostly in South China Sea. Most of the fishermen in Hong Kong have to sail hundreds of miles (in the course of a few days) to catch them. Fresh water fish are probably imported from China - farm raised or caught in ponds/lakes/rivers.

[hzrt8w]

In the affordable range, it's definitely a seller's market.  Even the most atrocious hole-in-the-wall will have a line waiting to get in at 7:00 PM; there's little motive for putting out anyting more than a desultory effort.

Those days that you experienced back in 1997 were long gone. Since the US dot com crash in 2000, the Hong Kong stock market slumped. The real estate market followed. People lost 30% to 70% (in some cases) of their home value. Consumer spending shrank. The HK restaurant market was hit especially hard during the SARS epidemic a couple of years ago. People chose to stay home rather than to eat out. My brother told me that it has recovered a bit (so did the Hang Seng index) but sure is not the same as before.

[Ben Hong]

One word: TORONTO.

[hzrt8w]

One word: TORONTO.

Would you elaborate, Ben?

[Ben Hong]

Hzrt8w, simple . According to my friends in the Hong Kong Consulate in Toronto, the best of the best (with matching prices) can still be found in HK, along with the cheapest street food. But, for overall standard for Chinese food of all regional styles, Toronto is it.

[Gary Soup]

Hzrt8w, simple . According to my friends in the Hong Kong Consulate in Toronto, the best of the best (with matching prices) can still be found in HK, along with the cheapest street food. But, for overall standard for Chinese food of all regional styles, Toronto is it.

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I wouldn't buy the "all regional styles" part of that, unless you mean all the regions of Hong Kong .

I think TO can claim the prize, though, for having the priciest dim sum joint in the hemisphere, if not on the planet. (But watch out, San Francisco's Yank Sing is trying to catch up.)