What makes a great NJ restaurant?

[cheech44]

Hi, this is my first post on egullet. I found this site this week and am impressed with its content. I am a restauranteur in NJ and am in the process of selling my restaurant. While I'd love to spend my time golfing..I need to continue to create cash flow. This will be my 3rd rest, the first a byo Italian storefront and the current a steakhouse family rest. I am going back to fine dining and would appreciate opinions on "What makes a Restaurant Great". In order of importance..with 1 being most important can my new friends on egullet list there criteria?

Service-Food-Decor-Price-Cusine type-BYO-Liquor License-ETC(add anything else).

Thanks

[Hest88]

1) Service. Unless you're a celebrity or odd niche restaurant, great service will mask so-so food. And poor service will send a customer fleeing faster than poor food ever will.

2) Food. Naturally, good food is important!

3) Price. Not cheap food, but a good price/value ratio. The quality of the overall experience--service, presentation, creativity, atmosphere, ingredients--has to correspond to the price.

4) Then decor...

5) Uh, and I'm sure there are other important factors, such as location, easy transportation/parking, that are important as well, but I haven't had my coffee.

[menton1]

I think this belongs in General Food Topics.....

[kansascitykid]

Those are all important, however in a great restaurant they should also just be a given. When talking about the best restaurants, one has to take into consideration their overall contribution to modern American fine dining. I guess the best comparison would be a thesis, that is what new concept or perspective on an old idea does it bring to the table.

Look at Alice Waters (Chez Panisse), she brought the idea of the forager to the states. Forager: Local + Fresh = the ultimate food experience. That concept has been applied to almost every "great" restaurant in the last twenty-five years. Then look at Danny Meyers(union square, Gotham) and the way he redifined service on the east coast. After Reichl debunked the snooty service scene in NYC, Meyers said lets create warm, friendly, intellgent service and lead our guest by the hand through an experience. Then theres Mario Batali(Babbo) & Judy Rogers (Zuni Cafe), chefs who made it cool to serve grandmas food. By this I mean rustic food: oxtail ragouts, pork jowls & frissee salad w/ duck prosciutto. These restaunteurs are the ones that are truly "great", they've pushed the culinary world to where it is today.

Now, Im sure that if you dined at anyone of these restaurant or several others, youll notice that the playing field is level. Service, quality of food, ambience are all on par with eachother. So you really need to look beyond all of that, and try and figure out whether of not the chef is trying to trick you or trying to share something special with you. This all may sound like a philospher turned foodie, but I can gaurantee that this is what each chef had in mind when they opened their doors.

Edited August 31, 2004 by kansascitykid (log)

[tommy]

in terms of a NJ restaurant (and i do think this can be considered NJ-specific to some extent, and getting NJ readers' opinions would certainly be helpful...and a lot of them don't read the other boards including 'general'), depending on your target audience and menu, i'd say that BYO is attractive.

other more obvious answers include: good consistent food, interesting food, competent service, comfortable atmosphere (by no means does this mean "upscale"), etc.

that combination, however, far from guarantees success in NJ, or anywhere for that matter. good luck.

[Susan]

I think I would say great food and great service and in that order. For me, if a restaurant has great food and good service, I will always go back. If they have great service and good food, I would go back, but not as quickly. I think if you have both great food and great service, price is not as important - unless it is ridiculous. Personally, I am willing to pay for the food and the service. I would think that most of the great restaurants in NY are highly priced, but people are willing to pay because of the food and the service. A nice decor always helps, but is not always a key factor for me. Decor is probably important when you are looking for a certain ambiance for that evening and then the quality of the food may not be as important. That's just my opinion.

[Rosie]

Cheech44--Welcome to eGullet.

If you are opening a restaurant in NJ it should not be the same as every other same old--same old Italian restaurant. The menu should be different, interesting and have some surprises. A talented chef, well trained staff and comfortable decor are important to me. I also prefer BYO.

A public relations firm that specializes in restaurants also helps to get a place going and once the buzz has been started a PR firm helps to keep it going. With so many restaurants in NJ you need to stand out.

[Kim WB]

Wine is an important aspect of fine dining. You cannot be in the true upper echelon of fine dining..( Ryland, Nicholas, Rats, Stage House Inn) without wine service. You can be a very good restaurant, even a great one, but I respectfully submit that there are no "fine dining" restaurants in NJ that do not have wine service, and I'll add my opinion that you don't DESERVE to be considered a four star without this component. the best BYO, imho, should never get a 4 star designation.

Edited August 31, 2004 by Kim WB (log)

[richl2214]

Decor and service is nice and all but people will come, sit on park benches and eat with plastic utensils if and only if the food is phenomenal. No matter what kind it is.

[tommy]

Wine is an important aspect of fine dining. You cannot be in the true upper echelon of fine dining..( Ryland, Nicholas, Rats, Stage House Inn) without wine service. You can be a very good restaurant,  even a great one, but I respectfully submit that there are no "fine dining" restaurants in NJ that do not have wine service, and I'll add my opinion that you don't DESERVE to be considered a four star without this component. the best BYO, imho, should never get a 4 star designation.

thankfully the NY Times doesn't award stars in NJ.

i agree with your thought, though (mostly...i do think there are some "fine dining" restaurants that are BYO. Cafe Panache, Cafe Matisse, LaTour, et al). but there are only a handful of places worth of being the "best of the best." i'm not sure that the poster is shooting for that. if he is, i'd hope he's got another source of inspiration and information aside from this motley crew.

Edited August 31, 2004 by tommy (log)

[glenn]

location

location

location

[tommy]

location

location

location

perhaps a *very* important factor (or is that factors) for success, but not always a concern of the diner. take China 46 for example.

[suzilightning]

comfortable atmosphere (by no means does this mean "upscale

translation:

tommy doesn't have to wear a tie with his shorts

[Hank]

But China 46 is the ultimate example. So many people, when I have recommended this restaurant say to me and I quote, "A Chinese restaurant on route 46 in a former diner. You've got to be kidding". I go there often during the week and it is almost always pitifully empty. Anyone opening a retail business must always consider location first as should our poster.

A perfect example is the Silver Pond on Main St. in Fort Lee. Great location, food not even close to that of China 46 and yet it is most always crowded. Even at lunch time.

[Curlz]

Cheech, if you're going the fine dining route, my question is, do you want our thoughts on a restaurant that we would go to on a very regular basis, or one for special occasions? I don't know many people who, even if they can afford it, are at 'fine dining' establishments 4x a week, or even 4x a month.

To me, fine dining means that there is a full experience of great food, equally great service, stylish decor, etc. Sometimes that translates to a special occasion restaurant, sometimes it's a local spot--but either way, it's not likely that it's a place I'm going to every week. Maybe it's the phrasing, but when I hear the term fine dining, I'm wary that the place may be a bit too stuffy or too formal for me. Personally, I'd much prefer someplace comfortable, a little more casual, with excellent food, great service, and BYO is definitely a plus. Something like An American Grill or Rocca, for instance. I would never classify C46 as fine dining, but it's damn good food (and as you can see from the C46 thread, service too), and if it was just a tad closer to where I live I suspect I'd have dinner from there a few times a week.

Without putting you in a corner, could you give us an example (or 3)--just for the sake of comparison--of the type of restaurant you'd like to have? Atmosphere? The type of customer you want to attract (business people, couples out for romance, etc.)? Pricing? That might help us understand what you mean by fine dining.

[tommy]

But China 46 is the ultimate example. So many people, when I have recommended this restaurant say to me and I quote, "A Chinese restaurant on route 46 in a former diner. You've got to be kidding". I go there often during the week and it is almost always pitifully empty. Anyone opening a retail business must always consider location first as should our poster.

A perfect example is the Silver Pond on Main St. in Fort Lee. Great location, food not even close to that of China 46 and yet it is most always crowded. Even at lunch time.

as i stated, i know full well what location can do to a business. however the initial question, as it was framed, was what is important to *you* as *diner*. and as i said, i don't care where China 46 is. i don't think many of its fans do either.

Edited September 1, 2004 by tommy (log)

[glenn]

I think cheech has his spot chosen, so location is a moot point. And bite my tongue, but tommy is right.

I also think more info needs to be given by Cheech as far as why he is asking this question. He is an experienced restaurateur and probably knows most of the answers from experience and intuition. I don't mean to be critical and I'm not, just looking for more info. It's ridiculous to come up with a list such as:

1. food

2. service

3. byo

4. atmosphere

5. parking availabilty

6. outdoor dining

7. decor

etc.

Such a simplified answer assumes the quality of each of these categories to be static and does not take into consideration that people have different motivations for dining out. Including fine dining. There are those that will sacrifice most other qualities (to an extent) for a chance to have an incredible meal. However, to what extent? And so on for each of the attributes.

[cheech44]

WOW, you guys are great ..Thanks for the input

Rosie- same old thing is definetly out, creative and different is right on

PR firm is something I am not familar with and will do that also

BYO is easier to start...but some of my affluent friends will not dine without a bar..so i NEED TO GIVE THIS SOME THOUGHT.

Tommy-another vote for BYO..yes this concept of a great rest is for NJ, also I need to find the balance between upscale,fine dining or maybe the right term is tablecloth rest..no conditions like jackets etc..but children(whom I love) really will not be welcome.

Pricing- Apps-7-10 Entrees 15-25 Hows that??

Decor- clean,sleek,well spaced,cozy and as quiet as I can get it.

Location- I am targeting the affluent towns.

My postion- I am a trained Chef..but the last 10 years I have assumed a General Manager postion..so I am either going to go small with 60-70 seats and be the Chef or hire a young stud and work the front of the house.

[cheech44]

Glenn

I haven't chosen my location yet

I am experienced but I like the opinions that I have read here and need to here them and decifer what I need to do. I am trying to understand peoples idea of a great dining experience.

The ranking food service etc... I always lived by the motto "Its the food stupid" but I noticed in my steakhouse(200 seats, 300 covers on saturday) that the personal touch was missing and regulars stopped coming and I believe it was because of the lack of attentive personal service..so I believe today with so much good food around service has moved ahead of food.

Once again thanks and you guys are great!!!!!!!

[Rosie]

"a young stud and work the front of the house."

That will bring in customers!!

[Kim WB]

Pricing- Apps-7-10 Entrees 15-25 Hows that??

In this price range, I don't feel that you will have the ingredients that could make it into what I consider the "fine dining " range..and therefore, I don't think wine service is mandatory. so, you're looking for an upscale white tablecloth neighborhood place...is that a better description? I still think it would be helpful if you listed a few places that you would consider your potential peers. Also, what county are you targeting?

Edited September 1, 2004 by Kim WB (log)

[adegiulio]

"a young stud and work the front of the house."

That will bring in customers!!

I already have a job, but I think Tommy is available..

In my book, food is the most important point. Be creative, buy high quality ingredients. Serve things I can't get everywhere. Change the menu seasonally or more. Don't use the same 10 ingredients to make 200 different dishes (lets see, we have artichoke hearts, roasted peppers, tomatoes, prosciutto, veal....you get the point). Don't be afraid to take some risks with the food. Serve foie gras. Try tasting menus once in a while. Don't let your wine distributors have anything to do with your wine list, if you go that way.

Spend a week or two going to the restaurants that we rave about here on eG. Rocca, Fascino, Village Green, China 46, Jocelyne's...Go to restaurants that think they are the shit but are really jokes. Bellissimo's, Tulipano, Zarole (I hope they come back to their former glory), Bacchus. From the glassware to the bathrooms to the dessert menu, the difference becomes clear very quickly. Food at the top places seems to swagger. Servers at fallen stars know the gig is up. You can smell the fear and taste the victory. Tommy, what the hell am I talking about??

Seriously, the best way to discover the answers is to pony up $1500 and go eat out for 15 days. I'm sure you can get a few people here to come with...

Anthony

[tommy]

Spend a week or two going to the restaurants that we rave about here on eG. Rocca, Fascino, Village Green, China 46, Jocelyne's...Go to restaurants that think they are the shit but are really jokes. Bellissimo's, Tulipano, Zarole (I hope they come back to their former glory), Bacchus. From the glassware to the bathrooms to the dessert menu, the difference becomes clear very quickly. Food at the top places seems to swagger. Servers at fallen stars know the gig is up. You can smell the fear and taste the victory. Tommy, what the hell am I talking about??

i'm with ya kid. i'm with ya.

[glenn]

In that case, I go back to,

location

location

location

:-)

As far as how to go about it, that's a tough one. I'm kind of in the same pickel myself, but I'm trying to stick to an area I'm familiar with. There are companies that do feasibility studies. It costs loot, but it might be well spent. Good luck!