Making Pizza at Home/Homemade Pizza

[Duvel]

13 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

".....realms of the obsessive......."

indeed.  I've spent lots of time in Italy - Turin/Piedmont/Sicily/Naples/'east coast'/ Venice-area-into-the- Dolomites . . .

 

methinks the issue is a local pride issue - which is actually unrelated to "tastes good"

 

regardless..... wood auto-ignition temp is 451' Fahrenheit.  there's a book about that.....

the vastest majority of home ovens design for install around wood do not exceed 500'F - for safety reasons.....

our most recent replacement says it will go to 550'F - done that - display reads 550'F - does preheat a baking stone super well.

Well ...

 

I somewhat disagree with the statement of “local pride issue and not related to taste”. Cooking techniques developed from available equipment, and the taste is by necessity a combination of ingredients & techniques - which in the case of Neapolitan pizza is deemed as “good” by quite a share of people. 
 

I complete disagree with your second statement. 451’ is the alleged auto ignition temperature (actually more of a median) of paper, not of wood. There is a book about that 😉 ... Wood burns at higher temperatures - but this would not pose a significant risk, as ovens are properly insulated and will not start to ignite their respective environment. 

[scott123]

21 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

methinks the issue is a local pride issue - which is actually unrelated to "tastes good"

As @Duvel alludes to, Neapolitan pizza was born out of necessity.  Poor aspiring pizzeria owners couldn't afford hulking 70,000+ lb. bread ovens.  Smaller ovens at lower temps = less output, so, if Neapolitans wanted to make money, the only option was to run the oven hotter. This is still a reality with wood fired ovens today. It doesn't hurt that Naples has been quite industrial/bustling/fast paced for hundreds of years.  What's the translation for espresso?   This was fast food centuries before Ray Kroc had a glint in his eye.

 

Taste is relative, so 'tastes good' causes me to bristle a bit, but if you wanted to say something along the lines of "less crowd pleasing," I can absolutely agree that Neapolitan pizza is less crowd pleasing than American.  Not if the crowd is in Italy, obviously, but, as you move into neutral areas without much of a pizza history, longer baked pizza is generally favored. Speaking of espresso... I might go as far as to say it most likely breaks down like espresso does vs lighter roasts. The intense char, the wetness- Neapolitan pizza is not for everyone. 

But any conversation about the polarizing aspects of Neapolitan pizza, as I said before, is off topic.  1 minute Neapolitan pizza is polarizing, niche, obsessive, an acquired taste, etc. etc.  7 minute NY vs 10 minute NY- for everyone that I've ever met 7 tastes better- dramatically better- like "Oh my God, I just tried steel for the first time and my life will never be the same" better.

[jimb0]

made pizza for lunch for the so. i’m a terrible planner so i made this dough about 90 minutes before i baked the pizza. 

 

took about five and a half minutes in my oven, probably could have gotten away with a little less but i put too much cheese on it since i didn’t want to put what i had left back in the fridge. 

 

pesto, chicken from some “stuffs” i baked last night, bowl of defrosted corn and peas that was in the fridge, sesame. i was out of pine nuts and parmesan so i subbed cashews and vegemite for the pesto. honestly it came out extremely well. 

 

 

[shain]

@jimb0 That's one funky looking pizza (in the best meaning of funky :P)

[jimb0]

11 hours ago, shain said:

@jimb0 That's one funky looking pizza (in the best meaning of funky :P)

 

life's too short to eat boring pizza

[weinoo]

With the same dough an attempted pizza bianca was made the other day, but with 24 hours more hanging out in the fridge, almost round pizza was made last night.

 

 

I stretched as much as possible and got it quite thin...

 

 

But do I like 2 or 3 day rested dough for this kind of pizza is the question. The answer - I really don't think so. It attains, for want of a better description, a different type of chew.  At least we're having fun experimenting. And probably gaining weight.

 

[weinoo]

So true, @Chris Hennes, so true!

 

A week or two ago I received an email from King Arthur touting a discount...who can let something like that slip away?!  So in addition to a number of other items I purchased (did I really need a King Arthur coffee mug?  Well, it put me over the limit to qualify for the discount, so...), I bought a bag of...

 

 

And set out to make pizza yesterday, strictly following the instructions on the back of the bag. I wish they'd listed the protein content of this flour somewhere.

 

This first pie came in at about 4 minutes, after preheating the steel for an hour and then turning on the broiler for a good 10 minutes...

 

 

And was quite good. But it was the second pie, baked for an additional minute and a half, which really hit the spot...

 

 

I didn't have a lot of mozzarella, so I made if half cheese, half plain. And I used a bit more sauce than I normally do, this one a jar of my favorite stuff from Gustiamo blended with a can of Muir Glen chopped tomatoes, some olive oil and salt.

 

 

 

I guess I'd call it somewhere in-between Neapolitan and NY style, as it was not soupy as some Neapolitan pies can be, and more tender than some NY style pies might be - less crispy, that is, other than that crust rim.  Quite good.

[Anna N]

30 minutes ago, weinoo said:

I wish they'd listed the protein content of this flour somewhere.

 

I believe you can work that out. Here.

[shain]

1 hour ago, weinoo said:

I wish they'd listed the protein content of this flour somewhere.

 

Remember that protein content is not the same as gluten content. You can have high protein flour with low gluten and vice versa. Though there's probably a corellation.

[weinoo]

1 hour ago, Anna N said:

I believe you can work that out. Here.

True. But now, on other bags of flour, they’re giving a quite precise percentage of protein.  Using the formulae certainly gives a broader range of percentages. 

[rotuts]

if you called KAF

 

Id bet they would look it up for you

[scott123]

https://www.amazon.com/King-Arthur-Specialty-Flour-American-Grown/dp/B08J23Z8DD

"Our new ‘00’ Pizza Flour’s perfectly balanced blend of hard and soft wheats deliver an outstanding Neapolitan-style crust that’s crispy on the outside while chewy on the inside, and has a 11.5% baking protein level along with extra-fine ‘00’ milling."

I'm not endorsing this flour, btw, just relaying information from the miller.

Edited February 24, 2021 by scott123 (log)

[weinoo]

3 minutes ago, scott123 said:

https://www.amazon.com/King-Arthur-Specialty-Flour-American-Grown/dp/B08J23Z8DD

"Our new ‘00’ Pizza Flour’s perfectly balanced blend of hard and soft wheats deliver an outstanding Neapolitan-style crust that’s crispy on the outside while chewy on the inside, and has a 11.5% baking protein level along with extra-fine ‘00’ milling."

I'm not endorsing the flour, btw, just relaying information from the miller.

 

Great - thanks!

 

Interesting how close in protein content it is to their A/P...

 

[scott123]

53 minutes ago, shain said:

 

Remember that protein content is not the same as gluten content. You can have high protein flour with low gluten and vice versa. Though there's probably a corellation.

For white flour, protein is basically gluten.  When you start extracting closer to the hull, as you do with whole grain/high ash, you'll run into proteins that don't form gluten, and thus skew the numbers.

[shain]

16 minutes ago, scott123 said:

For white flour, protein is basically gluten.  When you start extracting closer to the hull, as you do with whole grain/high ash, you'll run into proteins that don't form gluten, and thus skew the numbers.

 

Sorry, my bread baking know-about is a bit stale 😁.  But I think gluten quality is still a thing with white flour - might be due to protein damage rather then content? I'm not sure. I do remember that protein content is not a direct indicator of gluten-forming strength. 

[scott123]

3 hours ago, shain said:

 

Sorry, my bread baking know-about is a bit stale 😁.  But I think gluten quality is still a thing with white flour - might be due to protein damage rather then content? I'm not sure. I do remember that protein content is not a direct indicator of gluten-forming strength. 

A bit stale.  Good one

I can't speak for other flours in other countries, but my previous comment related to pizza flour.  Pizza flour is only milled in 4 countries.  U.S., Canada, the UK and Italy.  The Italians are renowned for bending over backwards trying to protect the protein by keeping the temperatures low during the grinding process.  This being said, I've seen countless doughs made with Neapolitan flour that fell right in line with North American flours with the same protein percentages, so the common idea that North American millers are  taking protein damage less seriously than the Italians is not true in my experience.

Now, British pizza flours, specifically the Manitoba varieties, they do consistently underperform their specs, but I've always chalked that up to a quality issue with private label rather than questionable milling.

My data is only observational, but it is comprehensive.  Based on what I've seen, I think that modern milling methods have reached a point where protein damage is no longer much of a concern- in pizza flour milling countries.  

Edited February 24, 2021 by scott123 (log)

[Chris Hennes]

Normally I am pretty good at planning ahead for pizza, but this afternoon I decided that what sounded really good for dinner tonight was... well, pizza. So no poolish, no aging, in fact no refrigeration at all:

 

It was still pretty decent, but I do prefer the flavor of a more aged dough. Topping are just canned crushed tomatoes, chopped fresh tomatoes, and one of those vacuum-packed things of fresh mozzarella.

[weinoo]

12 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Normally I am pretty good at planning ahead for pizza,

What time of day did you decide?  Did it at least get a couple of rises?

 

To be honest, I almost enjoy less fermented dough for certain pizza, but obviously, just me.

Edited February 28, 2021 by weinoo (log)

[jimb0]

4 minutes ago, weinoo said:

What time of day did you decide?  Did it at least get a couple of rises?

 

To be honest, I almost enjoy less fermented dough for certain pizza, but obviously, just me.

 

for me i like a funkier dough when it’s either a super simple pie or the toppings just aren’t really in your face. otherwise i am ambivalent as long as the gluten is developed. i find i can do pretty great pizzas with just a couple of hours these days but i’ll often add something like a little molasses or beer or something to the dough just to bump up the depth of flavour. 

[weinoo]

Hmmm, I wonder if adding either of the malt powders I just got from King Arthur would work in a faster dough - and kneading with the food processor.

 

One of my main reasons for enjoying a leisurely (aka no-knead) dough is basically that I don't have to do anything except stir all the ingredients together into a cohesive mass.

Edited February 28, 2021 by weinoo (log)

[jimb0]

probably.

 

i expect modernist pizza to do a lot of quickly fermented pizzas tbh, if their take in the OG is any indication.

[jimb0]

thinking about this some more you could probably work out a sliding scale for percentage of diastatic malt to add. too much and you'll get a super gummy result, too little and it won't make a difference. if you're doing a quick ferment you could maybe get away with adding more than you would for something like an overnight ferment.

[Chris Hennes]

8 hours ago, weinoo said:

What time of day did you decide?  Did it at least get a couple of rises?

Yeah, for sure - I had a good six hours to work with.

[Chris Hennes]

After another day in the fridge, here's the second half of that dough:

 

 

That's broccolini (brocolette? whatever we are calling it...) tossed with black pepper, red pepper flakes, and lemon zest. One of my favorites.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

13 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

After another day in the fridge, here's the second half of that dough:

 

 

That's broccolini (brocolette? whatever we are calling it...) tossed with black pepper, red pepper flakes, and lemon zest. One of my favorites.

Had you wanted to, would this dough have been amenable to being rolled out thinner?