Keeping your knives sharp

[Fat Guy]

All this talk of Kyocera ceramic knives and Global knives has me thinking: People most likely are embracing these alternatives to the good old German and French knives because they're not keeping their traditional knives sharp enough. With proper sharpening, the edge you can put (and keep, with proper care) on a traditional knife can be sharp enough to do just about anything -- and that includes slicing soft bread and ripe tomatoes.

Sharp knives are also safer. They're less likely to slip out because they're more likely to cut straight and true. And if they do get you, they cut clean -- they don't tear. I got a nasty cut the other day -- my first in years -- but it has healed beautifully because it was such a clean cut.

[mamster]

I use a sharpening stone (cost me all of ษ minus an employee discount when I worked at a kitchen store) and am fairly proficient at keeping my knives sharp.  I can only remember giving myself two bad kitchen cuts:  one with a tin can lid, and one with a dull Chinese cleaver.

My biggest gripe about cooking in someone else's kitchen, something I otherwise enjoy, is using dull knives.  It's bad enough when they have some lightweight serrated Ginsu equivalents, but worse when they have what was a decent knife that has been dulled beyond the point of being unsafe and back to the point of being safe because it won't cut a #### thing.

I'll gladly cook with a cheap nonstick skillet or a dented Revere stockpot, but I've been using sharp knives so long I don't even know what to do with a dull one.  My own personal #### would be a room full of onions and a dull knife.

Okay, the other pet peeve is when they have twelve knives and not one of them is a chef's knife.  There, I am an official knife snob.

[Fat Guy]

Oh, I so feel your pain. Then you ask for a sharpener and they give you the honing steel. The best, though, was one friend who, after hearing my lecture on the differences between honing and sharpening, said, "Oh, a sharpening stone, yeah, I have one of those," and hauled out a little stone -- a pebble, really -- maybe two inches long and an inch wide, embedded in a piece of wood. This was sold by a local fancy kitchen store as a sharpening stone for significantly more money than a real stone costs.

These days, when I go to someone else's house to cook I'll generally bring my chef's knife and my parer (because even people with good knife collections rarely have a 10" chef's knife, and even people who sharpen don't usually sharpen their parers) and a good skillet. I've also been known to bring a Zabar's ุ Wusthof-knockoff knife as a gift for good friends. Heck, buy them one of those Forschner knives -- they're cheaper than a decent bottle of wine.

Perhaps the most perverse thing I ever did in terms of knife-correction was when one of my former colleagues asked me to spend an afternoon at her place teaching her basic knife skills. Not that I'm qualified to teach this, but to her I'm an expert. So, knowing this person is well off, I got to her place, looked over her inventory of maybe 45 totally inadequate knives, and said, "Okay, lesson number one: How to buy knives." And we went knife shopping. Then we got back with four excellent Wusthof and Sabatier knives and a stone and I said, "Okay, lesson number two: Knife maintenance," at which point we sharpened and honed every one of those inadequate knives while I lectured ad nauseam about knife construction, etc. "Now you know basic knife skills," I said as I left having never let either of us cut into a single piece of food. (I did come back for a follow-up lesson; I'm not totally evil.)

[NewYorkTexan]

Can you get an equally sharp knife at home using a stone as you get from taking your knives to a professional sharpener?  I use my steel every time I take my knives from the block, and every few months take them to a pro sharpener.  I was always reluctant to try and duplicate those results at home.  It would be nice not have take pack up the knives and take them for a drive twice a year.

Are there specific stones that are better to use?  I know that they are different grit levels, but I thought there are also different kind of stones.

[Jinmyo]

I hone with a steel before use, once a week use a stone. About every month and a half I have them taken out to a professional sharpener.

That's the interesting thing about the Kyocera: You can't sharpen it without a diamond wheel. So you either have to find a professional with one or mail it to Kyocera who'll do it free of charge (บ for shipping). So far so good.

[Fat Guy]

If a blade is very dull, you won't likely do as good a job as a professional -- not unless you want to spend a good long time on your knives, and you're willing to take the time to learn and practice a lot. But if you have a blade that has been well maintained, I think you can get better results at home provided you're willing to invest the time. Professional knife sharpening is a pretty aggressive process. It's kind of like the difference between a deli slicer and hand-carving meats. The deli slicer slices are more uniform, but the hand-carved ones are better.

I prefer a whetstone, especially for novices, but knife people will happily debate that all day. I use a ridiculously overpriced Global one that has two different grits on each side, but they sell one at Bridge for twenty-something dollars that is probably just as good or nearly as good.

If you want to get into leather strops and all that, you can create an edge so sharp (we're talking barber-shop-straight-razor sharp) plenty of professional knife sharpeners have never seen anything like it. But there isn't much need for that level of sharpness unless you're a professional sushi chef, and in fact some microscopic roughness on your edge is helpful when cutting tomatoes and such.

[Fat Guy]

One thing I'll say for Kyocera: The ceramic peelers are excellent.

[tommy]

i've tried to sharpen myself, but haven't had good results...SOOOOO, where can i look to find a pro?  do places like Williams Sonoma have this service?  yellow pages maybe?

[Fat Guy]

If you don't mind the delays of mail-order, you can try:

http://www.justknives101.com/

Some people's local butcher shops will sharpen knives. This approach can vary in quality of results. But yours may be good.

[Liza]

If you're in the tri-state area, or in Nantucket, MA or Palm Beach FL, you have access to Fred De Carlo, Sr., sharpener extraordinaire. He comes to you! His card reads: 'Knives and scissors sharpened; Garden Tools; Housecalls". Twice a year my mom has him come to NJ to sharpen every pointy object in the house. The man is a specialist.

In tristate area: 201-945-7609

In FL: 727-360-5059

[Bux]

We've gone through a few knives. Our first was a hollow ground stainless steel knife with natural wooden handle--beautiful, indestructible. It hasn't been sharp enough to cut much for a very long time, but we keep it as a tool for odd chores. A carbon steel knife sold with the advice that we should never both with a steel, but use a stone regularly, developed an concave spot or two along it's cutting edge all too soon. It's very difficult to do a perfectly even job when sharpening. A knife that doesn't touch the cutting board at all points as it's rocked is about as worthless as one with a dull edge. That one isn't even around for odd jobs. Keeping the curve of the blade is as important as keeping the edge. If you want to use the full blade, it's essential to sharpen all the way to the hilt. None of this is to say I take great care of my knives or that they're always as sharp as they can be. Still I have trouble using other people's knives. Worse yet, is cooking at other people's summer or vacation homes where they bring all their worn out equiment.

[Fat Guy]

The amazing thing, Bux, is that most of the well-to-do New Yorkers I know who have vacation homes never cook in the city and do all their cooking at the vacation homes. Yet they keep all this fancy All-Clad stuff at home here and they keep the old crappy stuff where they do the actual cooking.

I've found that the best way to keep the blade's edge from developing gaps when placed against the cutting surface is to use a really big stone. If your stone is as long as the usable portion of your knife's rocking/chopping edge (maybe 7" on a 10" knife), and you sharpen with the knife lengthwise, you will maintain a uniform edge. Just always be sure to overgrind down by the bolster -- better to have that be away from the surface than to have it prevent surface contact.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Fat Guy, some times it takes only to be reminded of the rules: 8 glasses of water a day; eat and drink all things in moderation; use your stone to sharpen, your steel/ceramic/diamond to hone.  Thanks for bringing my stones (yes, two) out of the cupboard.  After a not-all-that-long session with a stone and several passes with a diamond rod, my favorite and most used knife now passes my test: a ripe tomato in my left hand; one pass from a knife should make a clean and immediate slice from the top.  Today the trial.  Tomorrow I'll work on the others.  Many, many thanks.  

[Jim Dixon]

I've found the best stone for sharpening all my knives (Wusthof stainless and garage sale carbon steel blades alike) is a Japanese water stone. You soak it before using, and keep it wet while honing. Gets them very sharp quickly.

Buck (of Buck Knives) used to sell a little thing you could clamp to a blade to keep it at the proper angle. Their hard stainless blades were notoriously difficult to sharpen, and this was part of sharpening kit. But it doesn't take too much practice to maintain the 20 degree or so angle.

Jim

[tommy]

i just found out that there is a store in NJ (probably across the country as well) called Chef Central that offers knife sharpening.  i'll be going this weekend, as my knives are about as sharp as a wet noodle.

[Jinmyo]

Quote: from Fat Guy on 10:41 am on Nov. 28, 2001

One thing I'll say for Kyocera: The ceramic peelers are excellent.

I can attest to that. I received one as a gift last week. It's just great. Does exactly what a peeler should with no sense of having to make it do that.

[project]

Ah, have to disagree on knife sharpening,

partly, and then ask a question about

newer knives:

My main knife is a

    Veritable Breswick

    Sabatier France

    Chef au Ritz

In the middle of this lettering there is a

drawing of the head of a chef, with a tall

hat and a long mustache.

The sharp part of the blade is about 9

3/4" long, so I guess it is a "ten inch"

chef's knife.

Got it at the kitchen store on the east

side of Connecticut Avenue in DC about 35

years ago.

Partly I have to guess at the name, use a

magnifying glass, and use some memory

because much of the name is worn off.  Uh,

yes, the thing WILL rust!  Easily!  Yup,

we're talking carbon steel.

Sure, I guess I should use a sharpening

stone, but I never do.  I just use a

sharpening steel.

To be more sure, I get out a high powered

magnifier, small microscope, and look at

the sharpened edge -- looks fine.

I used lots of sharpening stones in my

early teens:  Did lawn work and had a

sickle could shave with -- at least the

hair on my forearm if not yet on my face!

Used stones on the sickle, and still have

the stones.

So, at least for the Sabatier carbon steel

knife, the sharpening steel I use is fine.

Uh, the old story goes that the original

purpose of a sharpening steel was just to

'shape' the edge, e.g., to bend back the

thin jagged parts.  So, such a steel could

be smooth and not abrasive at all.  But,

now most steels are quite hard and are

abrasive.  So, at least with a suitably

soft knife, can use the steel to remove

metal and sharpen the blade.  And, with a

lighter touch, can use the steel for its

original purpose.

At times I've been tempted to get another

knife.  A longer blade, and a wider blade

that gives more room for my knuckles,

would be welcome.  But, I've never seen

this particular "Sabatier" brand again.

Called one guy, and he said "Au carbon" as

if that brand name answered all the

questions -- I don't believe that brand

names answer any questions.

Knives with steel that rusts don't seem to

be very popular, and I'm very suspicious

of, and unsure about, the metallurgy and

usefulness of knives with steel that

doesn't rust.  The things look so pretty,

tough to believe that they could be

useful.

So, what's the steel like in some of the

knives that don't rust?  Some of that

steel might be really hard -- maybe for

those, a sharpening stone would be

essential.  And, for them, if the steel is

really hard enough, a sharpening steel

might not be sufficient to sharpen the

thing.

And, I'm not trying to make sushi:  Mostly

I just cut the usual suspects -- onions,

carrots, celery, garlic, mushrooms, beef,

chicken.  I cut less than 100 pounds of

fresh French truffles a day!

Actually, for a stone, back in the days

when I couldn't pass up a gadget I didn't

already have at least six of, I bought

Robo, Jr.  It has two wheels, each with a

rubber tire, on an axle with a circular

stone between.  You get down on the floor

and roll the thing with the knife blade

resting where it is supposed to, and get a

grind at a nice predictable angle.

Ah, my finance's family kept all their

knives in the same drawer, and apparently

when a blade was too dull they just used

the other edge.  So, I got them a Robo,

Jr. and demonstrated it on my next visit.

Amazing their daughter still married me;

still more amazing the parents came to the

wedding!

Uh, no, the Sabatier knife is not for

sale.  Neither is my Griswold cast iron

skillet!

[Rachel Perlow]

I prefer a whetstone, especially for novices, but knife people will happily debate that all day. I use a ridiculously overpriced Global one that has two different grits on each side.

"Ridiculously overpriced Global" whetstones at Amazon:

Global Ceramic Whetstone, Fine Grit -- knife guide bonus offer.
Global Ceramic Whetstone, Rough Grit -- this one is currently in the Gold Box for extra savings.

[chromedome]

I find whetting my blades on a stone to be curiously relaxing and soothing, so I tend to do my own rather than taking them to a professional. Also, I think that the mechanical sharpening done by the pros tends to wear away the blade more quickly, and that just tweaks my East Coast frugality gene.

Project, I know a few other people with treasured carbon-steel blades of similar vintage. You're right, the steel is softer to a significant degree, and can be kept at a pretty fine edge by a steel in skilled hands. Of course, by the same token, they require a LOT of sharpening in high-volume use.

That requirement for TLC (frequent sharpening, and rust prevention) is probably what ensured the emergence of the contemporary knives with their "high-carbon stainless" formulation. That being said, I live in hope of finding one in a bin at a thrift store or yard sale some day.

[AzRaeL]

One thing I'll say for Kyocera: The ceramic peelers are excellent.

but the paring knives are crap. I have one.

it's very blunt from me trying to peel a burdock :)

i want a knife i can thrash within reason, not a ultrasharp good for little toy.

Saying that, I really love my Global knives.

When I help at other kitchens, yup, i Bring my Chef & Paring knife along too.

Can't stand blunt stamped blades.

[tammylc]

All this talk of Kyocera ceramic knives and Global knives has me thinking: People most likely are embracing these alternatives to the good old German and French knives because they're not keeping their traditional knives sharp enough. With proper sharpening, the edge you can put (and keep, with proper care) on a traditional knife can be sharp enough to do just about anything -- and that includes slicing soft bread and ripe tomatoes.

I think you're mostly right on the money. I know that part of why I love my new Global chef's knife as compared to my old Wusthof is because the new knife is just so much sharper. When I first got my Wusthofs I had the same reaction, because I was comparing them to Ginsus! Realizing this has inspired me to look for a sharpener to take all my Wusthofs to.

But the other thing about the Global that makes me favor it over the Wusthof is that the blade is thinner (especially at the top), which seems to make a big difference. And I actually like the lighter weight of it as well.

[bleudauvergne]

Got this at a garage sale many years ago and it follows me all over the world...

DialX - Sharpens Everything. It works very well at keeping things razor sharp, although I know it would probably be better for the knives if I were to use some conventional method. I totally agree about having super sharp knives, and many shapes and sizes. I carry a battery of knives with me when we go visit friends and relatives. I cannot cook without the proper cutting implements. It's downright dangerous to have less than sharp knives in the kitchen.

-Lucy

[Mayhaw Man]

Worse yet, is cooking at other people's summer or vacation homes where they bring all their worn out equiment.

You have hit upon a serious pet peeve of mine. I am lucky enough to have access to several family lake/beach houses and find myself bringing a load of kitchen gear everytime I go. I generally end up leaving a some of it and just repacing it when I go home. The real aggravation is when I leave a decent knife and I come back and it looks like someone has been using it for chopping firewood.

The irony of this is that the owners of these houses have kitchens in their homes that most of us would kill for and that the kitchens themselves in the camps are better than adequate. For some reason both of them are filled with leftover/wornout kitchen gear that was not of any quality in the first place. They may as well have gone to a Charity Shop and picked up all of the utensils. I actually brought a set of Calphalon for one of these places as I was sick of trying to cook in bent sautee pans with loose plastic handles.

Not that I am complaining or anything. I am extremely grateful to have use of these places and don't mind at all (this inserted as my Mom is an occasional lurker and she cn be a bit testy about any kind of culinary criticism )

[Bruce S]

Can someone suggest a reliable and very competent pro sharpener in NYC or Brooklyn?

Thanks.

[flacoman]

I second the suggestion of Japanese waterstones . There's a 1200/6000 grit combo commonly sold that fits nicely in a tupperware bin . Add a small piece of 400 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper for dressing and you can take on just about anything . Buy a cheap little paring knife for practice and just screw it up a few times. Once you learn how , it's the culinary equivilant(sp) on owning a pickup truck ;-)