What makes a Good French Bistro

[Varmint]

A discussion that went nowhere on the Southeast board made me think of what are the essential elements in a French-like bistro? I'm not talking about the ones actually in France, but the successful bistros in the US. Of course, service and quality food are essential, but are there certain aspects or dishes that distinguish the successful ones from those that fail? We seem to have lots of middling bistros in our neck of the woods, and I can't explain why.

[mamster]

Three things jump to mind:

1. A wide selection of interesting and inexpensive wines by the glass (by the small or large pitcher, as at Seattle's Le Pichet, is even better).

2. High standards for charcuterie, whether made in house or not.

3. Great braised dishes.

A talented hand with salad also helps.

[Dave the Cook]

Somebody remind me: what's the difference between a bistro and a brasserie?

[Busboy]

I believe a bistro is simpler, smaller, offers a more limited menu often a combination of Parisian standards and the fare of the owner's home province. Brasserie's are bigger, offer a more extensive menu, and are traditionally Alsatian, with the classic dish being choucroute (pork and sauerkraut). Brasseries are more elaborately appointed. Bistros are, decor-wise, in between a simple cafe and a modest restaurant.

But I could be wrong.

What makes a good bistro:

Onion Soup

Steak Frites

Neighborhood feel

Energy

Obvious hand of Le Patronne (or La Patronne) in every aspect of the operation

Old copies of le Monde and L'Equipe at the end of the bar

Smoke (God help me)

Edited November 13, 2003 by Busboy (log)

[maggiethecat]

Somebody remind me: what's the difference between a bistro and a brasserie?

Brasserie is the French word for brewery, as in Brasserie Labatt or Brasserie Bell's. A brasserie would be a more beer-driven casual restaurant, typically serving heartier fare to pair with the suds--like yes, Choucroute Garni.

[ExtraMSG]

I don't know what makes one successful, but I know I'm looking for flavorful dishes with depth and good braises as mamster said. I also want whatever else I get to have a good sauce. Maybe some cheesy braised vegetables. And I also expect to be able to take my dad there and he can still find something he'll like, a relatively inexpensive wine and steak and fries. And I won't be spending a ton of money.

[tcizma]

frites, organ meats ( and other under- utilized portions of various animals) inexpensive ( but good ) wine and noise.

[viaChgo]

The things I look for in a bistro:

1. great wines by the glass

2. a great salade de maison

3. simple, well-prepared dishes ...a la steak frites, roasted chicken

4. a good mousse au chocolat

I guess I expect the basics to be well executed in a cozy & comfortable setting.

[tryska]

What makes a good bistro:

Onion Soup

this was the first thing that came to my mind...

[viaChgo]

What makes a good bistro:

Onion Soup

this was the first thing that came to my mind...

good call...there are so many bad onion soups out there

[Busboy]

What makes a good bistro:

Onion Soup

this was the first thing that came to my mind...

good call...there are so many bad onion soups out there

Although, as a general rule -- like sex and pizza -- bad onion soup is better than no onion soup.

[GG Mora]

What makes a bad French bistro: any place that dares to use the word "bistro" in its name when they clearly haven't a clue what a fucking bistro is. For example: a pizza parlor that adds grilled steak and penne ala vodka to its menu and starts using white tablecloths and suddenly thinks it's...Voila! Un Bistro!

Also, any food that's fusiony, trendy, foofey or pretentious is an automatic disqualifier.

With apologies to the pallet-cleansing crowd for the ellipses...

Edited for grammatical innacuracy.

Edited November 14, 2003 by GG Mora (log)

[Varmint]

Can a bistro be daring? Does it have to be formulaic, relying on the old standbys, or can it take chances with innovative, yet relatively simple, cuisine?

[tryska]

sure.

as long as it has onion soup on the menu...

[Bux]

I'm not talking about the ones actually in France,

Damn, that was going to be my answer. Patricia Wells tries to answer this question in both the Food Lover's Guide to France" and The Food lover's Guide to Paris. She does a better job in the latter, maybe because I have a later edition and she's rethought the issue, or maybe just because she only tries to define in within the smaller context of a single city. In the third edition of the Paris guide printed ten years ago, she writes that the definition of bistro has been expanded to include a new crop of updated bistros where one finds waiters in designer uniforms and Japanese inspired raw fish dishes. If there's a fourth edition, I wonder if she'll have the energy to bother trying to define "bistro." By the way, the words "bistro" and "bistrot" are both seen in France, but one rarely sees the final "t" in the states. One NY French chef told me he thought the French are dropping the "t" in an effort to be more consciously modern and even to show American influence.

What I think most people in the states, particularly outside of NY where Parisian trends and ways are quickly imported, expect is an moderately priced place with old fashioned food--possibly French food that might actually be considered "ethnic." I think that's reflected in many of the posts here.

Brasseries, by the way, were frequently opened by breweries to sell their beer. "Brasserie" means brewery. The food served was generally that which best went with beer. Most of the brasseries specialized in Alsatian food to go with the Alsatian beer they served. Today, wine outsells beer in every brasserie I've seen. Brasseries are often large bustling places, as you might expect from a beer hall. Brasseries often have cafes in the front, on the street and often serve food all day as opposed to traditional bistros which were mom and pop places and which served only at meal times. Brasserie Georges, a nice art deco hall in Lyon, has a nice collection of memorabilia from the brewery that original owned the place--old bottles, advertising, calendars, etc.

[Bux]

Can a bistro be daring? Does it have to be formulaic, relying on the old standbys, or can it take chances with innovative, yet relatively simple, cuisine?

You're choice. As I noted, "bistro" seems to be in the mind of the beholder. db Bistro Moderne, Daniel Boulud's third restaurant in NY after Daniel and Cafe Boulud, is very chic in terms of it's decor and the food is very up to date and no simpler than in his other restaurants. He does, however allow himself the opportunity to be less serious and more playful by offering a couple of hamburgers. There's the rather luxurious db burger, stuffed with braised short ribs and foie gras and then there's the truffle burger. If you have to ask the price of the latter, it's not for you. Than again it's closer to a bistro than Cafe Boulud is to a cafe. Who cares unless the question "what's in a name" is more important than "what's cooking."

[Busboy]

I'm not talking about the ones actually in France,

Damn, that was going to be my answer. Patricia Wells tries to answer this question in both the Food Lover's Guide to France" and The Food lover's Guide to Paris. She does a better job in the latter, maybe because I have a later edition and she's rethought the issue, or maybe just because she only tries to define in within the smaller context of a single city. In the third edition of the Paris guide printed ten years ago, she writes that the definition of bistro has been expanded to include a new crop of updated bistros where one finds waiters in designer uniforms and Japanese inspired raw fish dishes.

Sounds like a slippery slope to me. Onion soup aside, I think a bistro should warm, welcoming and comfortable in appearance, menu and price. It seems like I read recently that people think of bistros as an extension of their living rooms, and that, to me, captures the right feel. You start shelling out for designer staffwear, furnish the place in lacquer and halogen, and start flying in exotic fish every day, the comfort level will drop and the prices will rise. It could be a great place, but it won't be a bistro (or even a bistrot).

Not that I want to go mano-a-mano with Patricia Wells of this...

[Bicycle Lee]

you need pomme frites, mussels, nicoise salad, and cassoulet...in my opinion...

I work at a French bistro right now...it's alright, but they try to dress up the food too much. I swear almost every dish is plated with a ring mold...where's the imagination?!

[iain]

What makes a bad French bistro: any place that dares to use the word "bistro" in its name when they clearly haven't a clue what a fucking bistro is. For example: a pizza parlor that adds grilled steak and penne ala vodka to its menu and starts using white tablecloths and suddenly thinks it's...Voila! Un Bistro!

Funny you mention that. In northern NJ, there are two italian restaurants with the new La Bistro (La Bistro and La Bistro II). Italian restaurants!

[edemuth]

Everyone forgot the snarly waiter!

[marie-louise]

A bit of a tangent. If I wanted to develop a small repertoire of good French Bistro meals at home. what should I perfect? Here's what I have gleaned from this thread so far:

Onion Soup

"Braised Dishes" I'm assuming this means Coq au Vin and Short Ribs. What else-Beef Bourguignon?

Steak

Frites (thin or thick or is it my preference?)

"Braised Vegetables"-examples, please

Roast chicken

Salad de Maison (I'm not sure exactly what this is.)

Salade Nicoise

Chocolate Mousse

Suggestions?

[AzRaeL]

Somebody remind me: what's the difference between a bistro and a brasserie?

one of them is that silly contraption that women wear to hold up their boobs?

hah!

What makes a good french bistro?

they Serve Perrier with a Snotty Attitude.

[fresco]

A bit of a tangent. If I wanted to develop a small repertoire of good French Bistro meals at home. what should I perfect? Here's what I have gleaned from this thread so far:

Onion Soup

"Braised Dishes" I'm assuming this means Coq au Vin and Short Ribs. What else-Beef Bourguignon?

Steak

Frites (thin or thick or is it my preference?)

"Braised Vegetables"-examples, please

Roast chicken

Salad de Maison (I'm not sure exactly what this is.)

Salade Nicoise

Chocolate Mousse

Suggestions?

My notion of "good" bistro food is taking inexpensive cuts or ingredients--and that includes a lot of meats such as oxtail and offal, vegetables like cabbage, potato, carrots and onion and such fish and shellfish as skate and mussels--and preparing them simply and well.

[Suzanne F]

According to one of my language teachers, the word bistrot came from Russia via the Napoleonic Wars: "bistro" means "quickly" in Russian, and the idea was that a bistrot (I don't know why the French added the t at the end) served food fast -- dishes that were simmering on the stove and just had to be scooped out and served, or could be put together quickly from supplies on hand.

So to me, a good bistro serves braises that are not overcooked or burned from reheating; salads that are fresh and not over-dressed; thin, crisp frites and steak cooked "to my likeness;" and so on.

I suppose the chef at a bistro(t) could always tweak the food; but it's really all about basic French comfort food.

[Sweet Willie]

I think a bistro should warm, welcoming and comfortable in appearance, menu and price. It seems like I read recently that people think of bistros as an extension of their living rooms, and that, to me, captures the right feel.

nice description, I agree.

French comfort food (as I see it) in a comfortable, casual setting.