Kitchen Remodeling Nightmares

[vengroff]

Just shy of three weeks into a kitchen remodel, I thought I'd share some of the highlights:

1. The job started 6 weeks after it was originally scheduled. Every week they said they would come, so every week we kept bare-bones essential foods only, and ate out a lot.

2. When they tore out the old kitchen, they didn't bring a dumpster, so they piled all the cabinets, drywall, appliances, and trash in the driveway and on the back porch. They took some away in a truck, but the rest is still there.

3. The plumber put in the pipes for the sink in the wrong place, because he was too lazy to drill through an extra floor joist. He subsequently suggested that we change the plans so that the sink would be where he put the pipes. If we didn't like that, he said we could run the pipes from one cabinet to the next and loose some storage space.

4. If I don't call the contractor each and every morning, nobody comes to the house. If I work at home, they are forced to stay, but it I leave the house for any reason, they take off right after me, leaving no trace but a pile of trash.

5. When they disconnected the old refrigerator, they did not turn off the water supply to the ice maker. They frantically tried to turn off the spraying water, and in doing so, broke the valve. So they just crimped the line and hoped that it would hold.

6. When the cabinet guy made his final measurements, he discovered that a wall the plans claimed was 88-1/2" long was only 80-1/2" long. Another was off by 4". The designer had been to the house and measured twice before he finalized the plans. Now the cabinets won't fit. Initially, they said I still had to pay for the cabinet that wouldn't fit, since that's what the plan said, and I had approved it. They only backed down when I pointed out that according to the plan I was getting a kitchen with an 88-1/2" long wall, and it was their problem to figure out how to deliver it.

7. When the designer's boss came to investigate #6, he accidently kicked the crimped copper water pipe (see #5) and it started spraying all over the kitchen again. We had to shut off water to the whole house until a plumber could come out to fix it.

[fifi]

I am so awfully sorry vengroff. (Wiping the tears from my eyes... from laughing, I am afraid. Number 7 did me in.)

This has the makings of a great thread. Hell... This has the makings of a great movie script. Sign up Chevy Chase and you will be rolling in dough.

[Jason Perlow]

Our remodelling experience, at nearly 7 months long from demolition to finishing up all the remaining punchlist items, was a nightmare. I totally feel for you, Darren.

[Malawry]

You are scaring me. How did you find these people? We're considering redoing our kitchen and I want to know how to avoid these problems. (With my luck, we'll merely inherit a new set of problems if we manage to avoid these.)

[tanabutler]

My husband is a building contractor, and he has said many times that a bad kitchen remodel can break up a marriage.

[hjshorter]

Oh my, Darren. I feel for you.

We remodeled our kitchen before moving into our house. Shortly after moving in we noticed a weird smell coming from the sink and called our regular plumber. Our contractor disappeared shortly after we told him the garbage disposal had been installed incorrectly. Just disappeared off the face of the earth.

We later discovered that the gas hookup to our cooktop wasn't to code, the lighting was faulty and was just waiting to start a fire... And of course there was the refrigerator that is 6 inches too deep, etc.

We got a different contrator to remodel the bathrooms.

[Varmint]

My husband is a building contractor, and he has said many times that a bad kitchen remodel can break up a marriage.

Gee, when we bought our current house from Mrs. Varmint's parents, I agreed to do so only on the condition that we'd re-do our kitchen ASAP. Maybe now I know why we haven't done it yet after 4 years.

[Blondie]

You are scaring me. How did you find these people? We're considering redoing our kitchen and I want to know how to avoid these problems.

Vengroff, I don't know what to say I work in the kitchen design business and I hate to hear these stories because it reflects poorly on all of us.

One way to avoid these problems is to hire a qualified (CKD if possible) kitchen designer. Check the references thoroughly and ask if you can visit some completed jobs. This isn’t foolproof but it will weed out some poseurs. Same with the contractor. Make sure to ask his references about jobsite attendance and cleanliness. Check for any required licenses and insurance.

Some designers act as contractor themselves. This can be a relatively painless way to get the work done since you only have one person to nag with phone calls instead of 2 or 3.

Who hired these subcontractors: you, the contractor or the designer? If the designer or contractor hired them, then he/she is responsible for making sure the work is done satisfactorily and as specified on the plans. That lazy-ass plumber asking you to *change the plans* to save him some work really takes the cake.

The designer should be run out of the business for trying to get you to pay for his mistake. Once the job is over please report him to the BBB or to his superior if he works for a large firm.

Do not let the designer walk away before the punchlist is complete and everything is done to your satisfaction. Good luck

[Varmint]

Blondie, I have 2 words to say to you for when you come down for the pig pickin': "You're hired."

[Blondie]

Blondie, I have 2 words to say to you for when you come down for the pig pickin': "You're hired."

[Nick]

3. The plumber put in the pipes for the sink in the wrong place, because he was too lazy to drill through an extra floor joist.  He subsequently suggested that we change the plans so that the sink would be where he put the pipes.  If we didn't like that, he said we could run the pipes from one cabinet to the next and loose some storage space.

Was he too lazy, or did you find the rare plumber who thought it wasn't a good idea to put that hole in the joist right there? Most plumbers whether in new construction or old, but particularly in renovations, give no thought to the structural integrity of the framing when they make way for pipes.

[vengroff]

I don't want to drag out all the dirty laundry yet, as we are still working on how to resolve some of these issues. But the place that did the design and is acting as the general contractor is a well-known regional chain that handles many of the popular high-end appliance brands. I think most of the DC area readers will be able to cut through the BS and figure out who it is.

[snowangel]

These things remind me of exactly why I did it myself. No one to blame but me. I learned a lot, but everything is just as I wanted. The price of the labor was right, too.

[mrbigjas]

This shit is killing me. Vengroff, I'm so sorry to hear it. I've been wanting to redo the kitchen since I moved into this place, and might someday soon have the financial ability to do it, but every story I hear about this stuff makes me happy that the crappy 1985 "renovated for renters" kitchen I have simply works.

Edited to say did I say kitching instead of kitchen? why yes I did.

Edited August 7, 2003 by mrbigjas (log)

[Marlene]

This shit is killing me.  Vengroff, I'm so sorry to hear it.  I've been wanting to redo the kitching since I moved into this place, and might someday soon have the financial ability to do it, but every story I hear about this stuff makes me happy that the crappy 1985 "renovated for renters" kitchen I have simply works.

I know there horror stories out there, and this is not a pretty one, but there are some good ones. My kitchen was gutted and re-done in three weeks, inlcuding custom made cabinets. So it can be done.

Darren, I am so sorry!

[Rachel Perlow]

Vengroff - so it's not EXPO? Despite what Jason said above, I think your experience is actually worse than ours so far. When the contractors came, they stayed most of the day and cleaned up the debris when they left for the day, and their incompetancies were more minor than your workers it seems. The mantra that got us through was the belief that "when it's over, it'll be beautiful."

[fresco]

If it's any consolation at all, my former neighbor--a carpenter and small-scale contractor himself and a damn fine one--and his wife are just about finished renovating a duplex they bought in April.

The final bill will be tens of thousands more than they had originally estimated and it took much longer than they had expected. The problem is that they are doing the work at what I think will prove to be the top of the current housing cycle. Trades people--even incompetent ones--have far more work than they can handle. Suppliers, especially on custom stuff like counter tops, are backed up.

But because housing is cyclical and everyone knows that a very slow period is probably not far ahead, everyone takes on work and lies a bit. Sure, I'll be there Tuesday. Tuesday comes and they're on another job across the city. You wait a couple of weeks.

My former neighbor wound up installing the counter top in one kitchen on the morning a tenant was scheduled to move in.

It is extremely frustrating for anyone trying to get renovation work done, because you often wind up paying way more than top dollar for what is often inferior work.

If you do have the luxury of waiting for a lull, it's always, always worth it. The good trades are available, and they're happy for the work. They can take the time to give you their best. And it winds up costing you a lot less than doing it during a boom.

[vengroff]

The cabinets were delivered this morning and will be installed starting tomorrow. I did a quick inventory and cross referenced them with the plans. In the design there are two 15" base cabinets with the same model number. On the delivery invoice, there is one of that model number and one of a very different model number. I'm afraid to open the boxes and look inside.

I am also crossing my fingers that the overlay panels for the fronts of the refrigerator and dishwasher were seperated from the cabinets and will be delivered with the appliances. They didn't come with the cabinets as I had expected they would. I'm a little concerned because the invoice that came with the cabinets is directly from the cabinet maker, and doesn't mention any such panels.

The contractor says he will go through everything and try to sort it out when he comes to install the cabinets tomorrow.

[enthusiast]

Can we keep this thread in the Fridge so that if i ever think our kitchen needs redoing (which i do every other week) i can pull it out, have a read, put it back and save a fortune in $$$ and angst.

[Adam Balic]

Here is my link to kitchen renovation nightmare:

Here be fucking plumbers

Update: Kitchen almost completed. Tiles finally up after 6 months and four tilers. Very expensive combination boiler that is faulty is to be repaired.

[qahtan]

Oh, thanks a bundle for that info about your Kitchen. Just what I wanted to hear. :-)))).

We started the ball rolling on our kitchen last friday, the guy to measure up is due today or tomorrow, fingers crossed. qahtan,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[vengroff]

The cabinets are now stacked in our living room, dining room, and kitchen. Several are missing, and several others are incorrect. We are expecting a minimum of 3 weeks will be needed to get the replacements. Our original contract specified substantial completion of the project by June 28 (of this year).

Did I metion my in-laws are coming for a one week visit tomorrow, and my wife is in Europe on a business trip this week?

[Toliver]

Our original contract specified substantial completion of the project by June 28 (of this year).

I would think this would put you in the driver's seat. What kind of concessions is the contractor giving you since he blew the completion date?

[vengroff]

Our original contract specified substantial completion of the project by June 28 (of this year).

I would think this would put you in the driver's seat. What kind of concessions is the contractor giving you since he blew the completion date?

Well, I still owe him a couple of big checks that I have not written. Once everything is properly installed, we can worry about that. The frustration and waste of time and effort is almost worse than the money, and there's no way to get that back.

[Toliver]

The frustration and waste of time and effort is almost worse than the money, and there's no way to get that back.

I posted this in another thread, but my brother had a remodel job where the contractor completely forgot about him towards the end of the job. The completion date came and went and so the contract was broken by the contractor. My brother still owed a balance to the contractor, but because the contractor broke the contract, my brother ended up renegotiating with the contractor to finish what was not finished and then only paid the contractor half of the original balance due. The contractor wasn't very happy but he knew he blew it.

You may not be able to get the time & effort back but a trip to Hawaii can help ease the pain. Or perhaps a complete set of Wustof knives can, or....you get the picture.

I'd go see a lawyer.