Japanese foods--tsukemono

[helenjp]

Konbu---yes it's for flavor, especially to help a "young" nuka-miso that hasn't developed much flavor itself. However, konbu itself gets moldy easily, so if you do put it in, it might be an idea to take it out in about 10 days (in this weather, it should be OK for that long).

The nuka-miso will gradually get sloppier and sloppier (and less salty) as it takes in water from the pickles and gives out salt to them, so every now and then, add a bit more nuka and salt...much the same proportions of salt to nuka as in your original pickle.

Additives...by far the most flavor will come from the lactic acid which develops as the vegetables pickle, so I wouldn't worry too much about flavor additives.

Calcium...will keep vegetables like cucumber a bit crisper, IF you pickle lots of cucumbers AND use a heap of eggshells. But then you've got to remove the inner membrane from the eggshell so it won't go off... I would treat them as strictly optional!

On the other hand, things like 2-3 dried chili pods and a tablespoonful of dried mustard powder will certainly help prevent unwanted molds or bacteria from developing. It's easy to overdo the mustard, and if you do, the pickles will be surprisingly bitter, so take it easy - if it's a small nuka bed, try 1 tsp of mustard and gradually add more. Japanese mustard for nuka pickles is already mixed with bran usually and is much milder - a handful of that can be tossed in boldly, but I expect you'll be using western mustard powder.

Beer...I think personally that's daydreaming, because most beer is not live culture...but many people swear by it.

Nuka - I've known people in New Zealand make nuka-zuke from breadcrusts - they hoard them in the freezer and then just damp and salt them. As one Japanese friend says, it tastes a bit different, but after you've eaten breadcrust nuka-zuke for 20 years, it starts to taste perfectly normal!

P.S. Your packages of "plain nuka"...how "plain" are they? Do they contain any salt? And is it raw - does it smell a bit like raw wheatgerm? If it is raw, many Japanese people stirfry it on low heat and then cool till barely warm before making their nuka bed. You could pop it in a low oven and stir it round a bit if you wanted.

Edited January 25, 2006 by helenjp (log)

[jeniac42]

Wow, thanks for all the advice, everyone. I ended up not starting the nukamiso last night, because I was worn out by the time I got home (and I still had a couple hours' worth of homework to do).

Helen, the nuka ingredients just say "rice bran", so I think it's plain ol' nuka with no additives. I haven't opened the packages yet, so I'm not sure of the smell, but I had been planning to put it in the oven to dry a little bit.

So let's see. I think I will be adding the konbu, and some dried mustard powder. I only have the English kind at present but I can probably pick up some karashi when I get the konbu.

I have a question about the container. I don't have easy access to any wooden or ceramic vessels; would it be OK to use plastic, or would that cause the pickles to develop an off flavor? It looked like Helen's pickle bed was in a plastic tub on her blog but I couldn't quite tell. I would like to get a nice container to use eventually, though - will I be able to transfer the pickle bed without killing it?

I'm excited to eat some pickles that I made... in the meantime I picked up some takuan (I think it was amai takuan or something - the package is at home - but it was the only one that wasn't violently yellow) and some shibazuke.

I'd also love to make umeboshi but I just don't think I can get the fresh ume here. Also, I want to get one of the tabletop pickling devices, and plan to do so when I can find one!

Oh, I forgot to say: We brew our own beer, so its yeast is still alive. I wondered if it might make the nukazuke taste like beer, but I guess not - maybe I'll give it a try.

Edited January 25, 2006 by jeniac42 (log)

[helenjp]

Nuka-zuke in plastic - yes, you can even use a heavy plastic bag for a small amount of bran. I am sure that things like miso or nuka-zuke *do* leach unwanted substances out of the plastic container...I just don't know how much, but nuka is probably less of a problem than some other pickles.

I did use to use a heavy stoneware container, and I would prefer to do so - you can easily rinse them out with boiling water, dry them in the sun, wipe them with alcohol, salt etc. Also, they keep the temperature more stable.

However, one day a couple of years back I left my husband and one son alone in the house, and in the process of making themselves some grilled cheese on toast, they somehow managed to drop something heavy into the empty stoneware jar and crack it...it's now an umbrella stand.

[Hiroyuki]

My mother used to use plastic containers like these (yellow ones):

http://www.dic-plas.co.jp/garden/pickle/index.html

I don't know whether she keeps her nukadoko even now. I think I'll ask her the next time I call her.

[Kuma]

Greetings all !

Nukamiso is going to be my next project - We made Sake at home last year, but this sounds just right for our next project to keep us going till our next Japan trip in March '07.

I haven't looked for it yet, but if I can't get Rice Bran here in Sydney, will Wheat or Oat Bran suffice ? I think someone mentioned this on the net somewhere, but knowing how touchy Kome-Koji is, I'm wondering if it makes a big difference.

(Oh, I'm now saving Bread-crusts just in case... )

Cheers,

Rob.

[torakris]

Greetings all !

Nukamiso is going to be my next project - We made Sake at home last year, but this sounds just right for our next project to keep us going till our next Japan trip in March '07.

I haven't looked for it yet, but if I can't get Rice Bran here in Sydney, will Wheat or Oat Bran suffice ?  I think someone mentioned this on the net somewhere, but knowing how touchy Kome-Koji is, I'm wondering if it makes a big difference. 

(Oh, I'm now saving Bread-crusts just in case...  )

Cheers,

Rob.

←

kuma, welcome to egullet and the Japan Forum!

I don't have an answer for your question, I will save that for our local pickle expert.

I can't wait to hear more about your cooking adventures! Sake, wow!

[helenjp]

Rob, I tried to find some exact nutritional information on rice/wheat/oat brans, but no luck. I think that any of those will be fine. Rice bran seems to have quite a high oil content, so maybe try oat bran first, as I think it probably has more oil than wheat bran (I7m just guessing, I warn you!).

Here's a Japanese recipe - if you use alternative brans, you might need a little more or less water. It should be almost crumbly to start with, but moist enough that if you pat it down firmly it will form a solid mass.

2kg raw rice bran, gently toasted in a low oven or over low heat in a wok or big saucepan. This drives off the raw flavor more than really "toasting" it.

250g salt (that's 12.5%, which is usual for modern low-salt varieties. 15% is more usual, and is not too salty).

1.8 liters water

50cm length of dried kombu (kelp).

3-4 dried chilis

2 tab fresh sansho berries if you have/like them, entirely optional.

200g unwanted fresh vegetables (scraps OK but not mouldy, muddy etc.).

Bring water and salt to the boil, dissolve thoroughly, allow to cool completely (covered).

Place prepared bran in a container, add kombu, chillis etc, and pour water in gradually, mixing with clean hands or a wooden spoon. Use a big container, as the veges you add will take up room, and you need to mix the pickle thoroughly every day, which is easier if it isn't about to spill out of the container. Heavy plastic is OK, but enamel or glazed pottery (scalded with boiling water) is even better.

Lay unwanted vegetables in the pickle bed, covering well with pickle, and leav for about 2 days. Remove vegetables carefully (fragments left in will spoil and eventually cause the whole pickle bed to go off). Repeat once or twice - the initial pickles tend to be harshly salty, and the pickle bed needs time to ferment and develop lactic acid. Now you can start pickling vegetables to eat.

Suitable vegetables - soft or small vegetables can be pickled in the morning and eaten that evening. If not needed, remove from pickle bed and wrap in plastic and store in the fridge rather than leaving in the pickle bed.

If you constantly pickle very water vegetables such as eggplants and cucumbers, the pickle will get wet and too sour. Ideally, add more salt and nuka. However, you can make a depression and allow water to pool there, then scoop it out for a quick fix. This does remove some of the flavour, though.

Popular items: cucumbers, eggplants, lengths of daikon (halved or quartered especially in cooler weather), carrot, whole radishes or small turnips, bell peppers, chunks of cabbage in nylon netting, myouga buds...and so on.

Care: You need to (with clean hands) mix the pickle bed thoroughly every day, twice daily in hot weather. At the same time, wipe any splatters off the walls of the container with a clean damp cloth.

Once a week, remove excess liquid and/or add 1/2 cup lightly "toasted" bran and 1 tsp salt.

If it is very sour, remove all vegetables, add 1 tab powdered mustard, and mix thoroughly. Mix well 2-3 times daily for 3 days before pickling any more vegetables. Sourness often goes with liquid so add more bran/salt until the bed is very firm.

If you are away from home for a few days, pack the whole thing up in a couple of plastic bags and put it in the fridge. If you are away during the day and the bed gets very hot either a) for a small amount, keep in fridge during the day, leave out at night so that fermentation doesn't stop completely, or b) while away during the day, cover with a very clean damp (boiled, blasted in dryer, microwaved etc.) cloth, and put a clean towel over the pickle container instead of a close-fitting lid. Replace lid and remove cloths when you return home.

I recall friends in old, cold NZ homes keeping their nuka container in the hot water cupboard in winter.

...in other words, nuka is like a pet! If you want to "kennel" it for a few months, make it up very firm with salt and bran, close very carefully, and leave in a cool dark place for up to 3 months. To re-use, take out top 3cm and throw away, clean walls of container, and away you go.

Edited March 25, 2006 by helenjp (log)

[Kuma]

Gosh ! Thanks for the super welcome, Kristin & Helen... I think I'm going to have a ball here.. Maybe even a Rice Ball

I am going to check the 2 local asian markets Monday morning, and get that Daikon on the road. The only version I can get here locally is the "highlighter-pen-yellow" one, so I can't wait to try the real thing. (

So as not to highjack the thread, I will post my Sake adventures separately. Also I need to check something related to Shabu-shabu so will post that too.

Cheers,

Rob. )

[helenjp]

I considered putting up instructions for takuan, but thought that might be overkill. But since it's just another type of nuka-zuke, here goes. Warning: home made takuan does NOT keep anything like as well as shop-bought takuan. Go on, ask me how I know that...

FOr 10kg of semi-dried daikon (let's get to that later):

480g coarse pickling salt (6% of daikon weight - this is very low, the pickle won't keep more than 2 months, 3 at the outside. 10% is fine.)

1kg raw rice bran (roughly 15%& by weight of the semi-dried daikon)

1/2-1 Japanese metric cup ()that is 100-200ml by volume) of coarse brown sugar (aka-zarame, Australian raw sugar is not a bad choice here)

40cm dried kombu (kelp) cut into 5-6 pieces

10-15 dried chilis

semi-dried apple peels and or mandarin peels, if desired.

Scrub but don't peel daikon. Tie daikon in pairs with twine, hang over a pole or line out of the rain (in a nice breezy spot, plenty of sunshine is fine, in fact desirable). Dry for 2-3 days in early winter weather in Japan - until you can easily bend a daikon into a U shape. CUt leaves off very close to top of daikon, roll daikon back and forth till pliable all over.

Mix all pickle ingredients together, Lay a good layer down on the bottom of your container (see above post on nuka-zuke), then add a layer of daikon, bending them round and round, end to end, in a spiral to fit the container. Add more nuka mixture, patting down firmly, then keep on layering daikon and nuka, ending with a nuka layer. Put a layer of paper or wrap down, then a board or plate, and a weight twice the weight of the daikon you are pickling. Cover all with several sheets of newspaper, tying or taping to the container. Leave in a cool, dry place for 2-3 weeks. Outside is fine if it is shady and cool. When water exuded by the daikon reaches the level of the board or plate, reduce weights by half. Leave for another week or two before sampling, probably at its best 1-2 months after pickling. If you spot faint signs of mould after the takuan is ready to eat, remove from the pickling bed, scrape off most of the nuka, and pop into the fridge. You could probably freeze it, but no guarantees.)

If you want to try with just one daikon, probably about 150g nuka, 100g salt, 1 tab raw sugar, 2-3 chilis, and a table-top springloaded pickle maker will do you.

[BarbaraY]

Thanks for all the tips, Helen. It was a search for information about nukazuke that brought me to eGullet.

I think my container is part of the problem. It is a large ceramic bean pot. I sterilized it but, for some reason, after the bed gets started, it begins to have a wet icky looking coating on the outside so I think, even though it's glazed, it may be sweating through the pot.

Next time I start it I will use a different container. Have to send for more nuka. Since it isn't available here I have to order it from San Francisco.

[Sencha]

Oh! This thread just reminded me what I forgot to buy at the store the other day!! Well, I'll have to buy the nuka another day....

Oh, and before I forget, thank you, Helen, for your expertise on making tsukemono. Your posts on the subject have been quite helpful, especially concerning nukazuke!

[helenjp]

Barbara Y, if worst comes to worst you could try a heavy plastic bag as a container! Enamel is probably best, and for a small amount, a lidded casserole wouldn't be bad either. But most people probably use plastic boxes.

I've heard that barrels are far and away the best thing for takuan, as it prevents the takuan bed from turning into a bath with all the liquid from the daikon. But not so many people have a handy barrel or two lying around.

[_john]

I bought and prepared my nuka about a week ago and after making some sacrificial pickles it has now developed a nice sourness. I did something a little strange with my nukazuke that I am not sure is traditional. I took some Guinness beer, boiled out the alcohol, and used that as my initial liquid in my pickling bed. I really like the flavor of the pickles it is starting to produce, it is similar to commercial nukazuke with a a special beer undertone. What happens if you don’t stir it everyday? Sometimes I go on trips, or just don’t make it home in 24hours, will my pickle bed suffer?

[helenjp]

John there are notes in the main nuka-zuke post upthread about how to leave home without your pickle-bed!

Beer is quite a common additive to nuka-zuke pickle beds. You can even buy brewer's yeast specially for that purpose.

[Kuma]

Great news !! I found the Nuka packaged as just "Rice Bran" in my local health food shop. It appears untoasted so I will heat it in a low oven as suggested. I can't wait, but I'm still trying to find the Kombu...

[BarbaraY]

I started my pickle bed yesterday and put it into a lidded plastic container.

I have made nukazuke before but the first time I tried them in this house, they got so nasty that I had to toss the whole thing.

This time I lightly toasted the nuka in the oven until it smell nice, cooled and added water, salt, kombu, chiles, garlic and ginger. Now all I do is let it do it's thing until it makes good pickles if I'm lucky.

[helenjp]

Keep on mixing that baby! Once a day, twice if you can. I've got a new nuka bed going too, and have to keep reminding myself to get back into the habit of checking it twice daily.

[_john]

If the nukazuke pickle bed gets too sour does this stop the fermentation?

Is there ever a point when a pickle bed cannot be brought back from the dead and you need to start over?

What exactly does the stirring do, does it introduce oxygen?

inquiring pickle minds want to know.

[helenjp]

If it gets too sour it's hard to eat with enjoyment! And yes, it's a sign that the various cultures are running out of food.

Stirring introduces oxygen - yes. Very important, because the "bad" bugs tend to be anaerobic, so the more you stir, the more you discourage them.

The point of no return - I imagine that there is more than one culture at work in a nuka bed, but if you let minor cultures get out of hand, it may be more trouble than it'S worth to recover the balance and flavor you want.

If the pickle bed goes moldy, I think you've had it - but if there's just a bit on top, scoop it off with a sterile spoon, taking plenty of the surrounding stuff with it, and wipe the walls of the container with alcohol (shochu, alcohol etc). If the whole bed is moldy it will not only taste terrible, you could get very sick.

[BarbaraY]

That's what happened to my last attempt. A nasty mold formed so I'm watching this one very closely.

It's cooler now than when I did the last one which I think may have been too wet.

[BarbaraY]

My pickle bed seems to be starting to work. I put a cucumber and a carrot in it yesterday.

The carrot didn't taste very good but the cucumber is close to the flavor I expect although it is still way salty.

[_john]

My pickle bed seems to be starting to work. I put a cucumber and a carrot in it yesterday.

The carrot didn't taste very good but the cucumber is close to the flavor I expect although it is still way salty.

←

The nuka that first bought was had a picture of a refrigerator on it, and a housewife putting the nuka in the fridge. I didn't really think about this until I got home and was mixing it up, it was way saltier than any other nuka I had ever used. I'm guess this is a type meant to be used in the refigerator? I bought a second pack that was much less salty, and mixed it with some of the other stuff. Now it takes about 6 hours to turn a cucumber into a pickle that I consider tasty and not overly salty. After a little tweaking with mustard my pickle bed seems to be stable and happy living under the counter.

[helenjp]

I don't know what the official explanation is, but generally, a young pickle bed will make salty pickles and will also take a while to pickle hard vegetables like carrot.

You may be right about the higher proportion of salt in bought nuka mixes though - I used one last year, and I think that this year's nuka bed is much less salty - and also taking longer to get up to speed.

I think that a mature bed is supposed to pickle soft vegetables such as cucumber in half a day. 6 hours seems rather brief, though it depends on the air temperature too. If the cucumber is floppy (!) and transparent (no white patches) when sliced, it's pretty much done.

[_john]

I think my pickle bed is still too salty then. Any more than 6 hours produces a pickle that is too salty. There doesn’t seem to be any white patches and it is quite floppy. I saw a bag of pre moistened nuka at the vegetable market. The bag is resealable and is designed to be used as the pickling vessel. I might just pick up a bag of that, but I liked nurturing my own nuka and adjusting the flavor to my tastes. I think I will just sacrifice more cheap vegetables to my salty nuka in order to level things out unless I can find some unsalted nuka.

[BarbaraY]

My pickle bed is working nicely. I served some for dinner Wednesday for the first time. My daughter, a grandmother herself, said." Wow! Those are really good."

To me, they still are a little more salty than I would like but I'm sure that will decrease.

I used cucumber, seeded and rubbed with salt and let them pickle for half a day.

I had to be away for several days so they are in the fridge. Will see how they work after refrigerating since I've never done that before.